DSG overheating warnings

[alcon27]

Hi all

I have a small question.

I have read a number of warnings related to the superb's DSG gearbox possibilty overheating when kept in "D" while stationary at traffic-lights, or whatever.

The user manual says to move the selector to N or P while stationary.

From posts which I have read, it seems this is only an issue in the 6-speed DSG found on diesel cars (wet pan) and not on the dry pan 7-speed gearboxes in petrol cars.

My question is, how long is too long to be stationary and keeping the car in D with your foot on the brake?

I don't have my car yet - I have to wait another 4 months or so, but in the test-drive cars I have taken out, I didn't know about this, and while stopped at lights, etc I always just kept my foot on the brake, without any warnings, etc.

Is 30 seconds OK? What about 1 minute?

Thanks.

A.

[RS3100]

In the UK, the Institute of Advanced Motorists, Driving Standards Agency, Traffic Police and so on recomend that if you are stationary for more than 10 seconds that you should apply the handbrake and put the car in neutral.

Nothing to do with parts over heating but to prevent you being pushed into the flow of traffic should the car behind fail to stop and run in the back of you. Or if you foot was to slip off the clutch or brake the car wont lurch into the flow of traffic.

[alcon27]

Hi

Yes, thanks. I am aware of that, but different countries teach diffferent things. Here in Belgium they are not taught to use the handbrake at all. Not even for hill-starts!

In fact, the quality of driving here is pretty bad, and there are things which could be done to improve the general standard.

Whatever about being pushed fro behind and the foot slipping off the brake pedel, I am interested in the Skoda warnings that the gearbox will overheat if left in drive while stationary for too long, without them specifying how long is too long.

In the UK, the Institute of Advanced Motorists, Driving Standards Agency, Traffic Police and so on recomend that if you are stationary for more than 10 seconds that you should apply the handbrake and put the car in neutral.

Nothing to do with parts over heating but to prevent you being pushed into the flow of traffic should the car behind fail to stop and run in the back of you. Or if you foot was to slip off the clutch or brake the car wont lurch into the flow of traffic.

[BoxerBoy]

My question is, how long is too long to be stationary and keeping the car in D with your foot on the brake?

I don't have my car yet - I have to wait another 4 months or so, but in the test-drive cars I have taken out, I didn't know about this, and while stopped at lights, etc I always just kept my foot on the brake, without any warnings, etc.

Is 30 seconds OK? What about 1 minute?

Thanks.

A.

I've been using a V50 with the Volvo / Ford Powershift box for more than 2 years and never worry about sitting in DRIVE for a few minutes, BUT if I feel the box is dragging at all I will pop it into neutral to avoid wear on the clutch(es).

It's odd, but sometimes you can feel a drag when stationary. Sometimes I even use the hand brake as I do feel guilty about blinding those behind me with brake lights when stopped for a "long time".

[Tankdave]

I don't think you need to worry about it unless the overheat light comes on which is most unlikely in normal use, I don't worry about as the car is monitoring the situation for me.

Edited 26 January, 2011 by Tankdave

[RedDog]

Nothing to do with parts over heating but to prevent you being pushed into the flow of traffic should the car behind fail to stop and run in the back of you.

I think you may be getting that mixed up with keeping your front wheels straight while waiting to turn right against the oncoming traffic! :yes:

[mannyo]

I always shift to N when I know that I am going to be stationary for more than say 15 seconds, eg. at traffic lights. In slow traffic I try to keep a steady speed to avoid stopping if at all possible. Otherwise same applies, shift to N with handbrake. Its also polite to the driver behind to not be staring at bright brake lights constantly, especially at night.

Do not ever leave a DSG in D holding on the handbrake alone otherwise your clutches will have a very short life.

If the overheat light does come on, all drive is disengaged until the temperature drops to an acceptable level. This would leave you stranded where you are, be it in a traffic queue or at the traffic lights.

[Departed]

I'm sure I saw a service update for this around the same time as the faulty batch of foglights were being replaced. I certainly had mine checked (DSG software issue) but mine was not affected. I can't find it anywhere by searching though. Anyone else remember it?

Ray

[lfc958]

Are you buying a new car with the new DSG dry plate clutch - If so then isnt the question irrelavant ?

If not then ignore me , & it would be a case of just use a bit of common sense

[alcon27]

Thanks all.

I don't think it is the new 7speed dry plate clutch, as I have ordered the 140hp 2.0L common rail diesel. I must have ommitted mentioning that.

Of course I will use common sense. But this is my first automatic car (I know DSG is not really "auto", but almost is), and there doesn't seem to be any 100% clear consensus on whether or not the clutch overheats or not when stationary and in Drive.

Are you buying a new car with the new DSG dry plate clutch - If so then isnt the question irrelavant ?

If not then ignore me , & it would be a case of just use a bit of common sense

[RS3100]

I think you may be getting that mixed up with keeping your front wheels straight while waiting to turn right against the oncoming traffic! :yes:

Wheels straight at cross roads, car hits you in the back you can be pushed in to the flow and hit from the left and right side.

Wheels straight in que of traffic you get pushed into the car in front.

Roundabout car hits you from behind and you are pushed into the traffic already on the roundabout.

Sorry M8, don't think I am getting mixed up but you are right, turning right in the UK or left on the continant you should keep wheels straight soa rear end shunt doesn't push you in to oncoming traffic.

[RedDog]

Ah.......fairy snuff! Glad you know what you're doing!

[blue_boy]

Thanks all.

I don't think it is the new 7speed dry plate clutch, as I have ordered the 140hp 2.0L common rail diesel. I must have ommitted mentioning that.

Of course I will use common sense. But this is my first automatic car (I know DSG is not really "auto", but almost is), and there doesn't seem to be any 100% clear consensus on whether or not the clutch overheats or not when stationary and in Drive.

I have had 6 speed DSG in my 1.9 TDI octavia done 103,000 miles - never an issue with overheating DSG. Do most miles on M25 Motorway so lots of crawling . no moving and I hardly think about switching to N fom D. Same with traffic lights et c, I have days I do one and days the other.

[i-s]

When the car is not moving, gear in D, foot on brake pedal, the clutch completely disengages. Overheating should never be an issue.

Overheating is only a problem if the "creep" is used very intensively, by this I mean moving slow and controlling the speed with the brake pedal.

[alcon27]

When the car is not moving, gear in D, foot on brake pedal, the clutch completely disengages. Overheating should never be an issue.

Overheating is only a problem if the "creep" is used very intensively, by this I mean moving slow and controlling the speed with the brake pedal.

I think that this is the answer I was looking for. It makes sense, I think.

It is strange through how little information is available on DSG boxes and how they should best be driven. There is a lot of contradictory advice all over the place.

As for creeping and controlling the speed with the brake, I think this will be done when manoeuvring - especially in and out of my very narrow garage - the first thing I checked when test-driving the Superb was to check if it could get in and out of the garage (with room for the wife's car too (Merc A-Class)). I do need to fold the mirrors in, otherwise I only have about 1cm either side at the door-frame.

Stupid 60's built buildings!

[boxer]

That it should be OK when you have the brake pedal down maybe the theory. However, check your stationary fuel consumption. Mine goes up when I have the car in D, and drops in N. This is the same as my other "normal" torque converter autos i.e. continuous drag places load on the engine. This has to go somewhere and if not in movement it ends up as heat.

No big deal to move to N in any case; wear will be minimal.

[geverard]

The Skoda handbook is of little use in this respect, though I read in some VW/Skoda information (I think it was a VW handbook) that it was OK to stay in gear with your foot on the brake for a "short time, for example when waiting at a crossroads". I suppose too much shifting between gears could also not be good for other parts of the transmission!

One experiment that I did was to hold my LEFT foot firmly on the brake pedal while stopped in 'D', then keeping this foot on the brake I pressed lightly on the accelerator pedal with my RIGHT foot. This drove the car against the brakes which confirmed to me that pressing the brake pedal does NOT disconnect the drive (unless of course pressing the accelerator reconnects it!) The conclusion that I have come to is that the drive is still connected but the level of wear on the clutches is probably so small that short periods are not a problem and I have heard of DSG boxes doing up to 370,000 kms without clutch changes.

What's really important to AVOID is holding the car on it's clutch on a hill by means of the accelerator pedal (to avoid it rolling back). The overheating protection will eventually release the clutches altogether (giving no drive at all!) but in the meantime it's bound to increase wear significantly, so it's a practice that I always avoid.

[tfp2000]

I have 80k miles done on my DSG box in my GTI and never had any sort of overheating warning. I generally leave it in D with brake applied at lights etc and do quite a bit of crawling in D with no throttle while queuing on slipways and the like.

Even after some 'spirited' driving cross country courtesy of the flappy paddles and then straight in to urban crawl mode there was never a warning.

[Minimoke]

And just to confuse the issue, VW has had recalls in the US regarding the temeperature sensors on DSG boxes. See:

http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/21/news/recalls-tsbs/flash-of-death-volkswagen-audi-dsg-recall-issues-caught-on-video/

The reputation of the reliability of the DSG box in the US is not good. VW are offering a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on them in the US to try an d offestt the damage. Wish we had their consumer laws.