Breaking in a new engine

[Master02]

I am currently awaiting a Fabia Greenline II Estate. I was wondering about how to run the car in and came across some very good ideas in the forums. Searching the internet I came across the MotoMan's method (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) of breaking in an engine - controversial. Anyone has firsthand experience or any opinions on the matter?

Thanks

[OctyNik]

I had a brand new Citroen C4 HDi Coupe and I was hard on it from the time I took delivery - it does over 65mpg now and has never used a drop of oil in over 12k miles. Obviously this isn't gospel but it's just my experience

[sharkrider]

I agree, drive it as you would normally, if you need full throttle and full revs, use it. it helps to seat everything in together, and it will use less oil. driven my fabia vRS normally from new, 1700 miles now, and not a drop of oil used, some others being "careful" have had to top up regulaly...

I drove my last car hard from new, and did 107,000 miles in (mapped it at 4k) and never had to put a drop of oil in that either.

[giandougl]

Running-in new cars a thing of the past, now-a-days.

As long as not using maximum revs or

making engine labour by being-in too high a gear up a gradient , both to be avoided.

Edited 1 March, 2011 by giandougl

[countryboy]

Yes use the engine freely from day one rather than being gentle with it as per handbook and you will get better oil and fuel consumption in the long run.

Ian

[skoda1982]

This is a passage from the owners manual

A NEW ENGINE.

THE ENGINE HAS TO BE RUN IN DURING THE FIRST 1500 KILOMETRES

UP TO 1000 KILOMETRES

Do not drive faster than 3/4 of the maximum speed of the gear in use,

that is 3/4 of the maximum permissible engine speed.

Do not use full throttle.

Avoid high engine revolutions.

Do no tow a trailer

FROM 1000 UP TO 1500 KILOMETRES

Increase the power output of the engine GRADUALLY full speed of the gear engaged ,that is up to the maximum permissible engine revolutions.

During he first operating hours the engine has higher internal friction than later until all of the moving parts have harmonized .The driving style which you adopt during the first 1500 kilometres plays a decisive part in the success of running in your car.

Tyres have to be run in they do not have optimal grip at first for the first 500 kilometers Brake pads 200 kilometres before optimal breaking force

You should not drive at unnecessarily HIGH ENGINE REVOLUTIONS even after the running in period is complete.

Do not drive at engine revolutions which are TOO LOW shift down as soon as the engine is no longer running smoothly.

[Can]

Tyres have to be run in they do not have optimal grip at first for the first 500 kilometers Brake pads 200 kilometres before optimal breaking force

Not trying to be funny here but since when do tyres need to be run in? I've always found that new tyres give me the best grip. I realise if you where using fresh out of the factory tyres they will be contaminated by the releasing agent. However I've never experianced this in any car fitted with new tires.

[skoda1982]

Not trying to be funny here but since when do tyres need to be run in? I've always found that new tyres give me the best grip. I realise if you where using fresh out of the factory tyres they will be contaminated by the releasing agent. However I've never experianced this in any car fitted with new tires.

if you have a skoda fabia owners manual page 159

[Can]

Seen it just not understanding it. Was hoping one of the more knowing people here might have been able to explain what they are talking about.

[skoda1982]

Seen it just not understanding it. Was hoping one of the more knowing people here might have been able to explain what they are talking about.

???:no:

[Guest]

Not trying to be funny here but since when do tyres need to be run in? I've always found that new tyres give me the best grip. I realise if you where using fresh out of the factory tyres they will be contaminated by the releasing agent. However I've never experianced this in any car fitted with new tires.

New tyres should be 'run in' for approximately 100 miles after being fitted. Nearly all tyre manufacturers tell you not to exceed 60mph for the first 100miles. This also means no harsh braking (unless you have to of course), no harsh acceleration, and no high speed cruising. All of those thngs cause the tyres to get very hot. This causes the moisture from the manufacturing process that is still trapped inside the rubber compound to heat up rather too quickly making it expand rapidly doing damage to the tyre construction. Instead of being able to fully escape some moisture gets trapped in parts of the rubber too. Over time this can cause delamination of the tread and bands inside the tyre. This will show up as bulges in sidewalls and of course, you will see bits of tread coming off. The tyre can wear rapidly too. Trouble is, if you don't run them in the damage can go unnoticed for months or even years until it gives out. Yeah...I know some people don't run them in and will swear the're ok, but you don't know that without taking it off and inspecting the tyre from the inside. I've seen some horrific sights cause by moisture trapped in the compound.

[xcyber]

"A NEW ENGINE.

THE ENGINE HAS TO BE RUN IN DURING THE FIRST 1500 KILOMETRES

UP TO 1000 KILOMETRES

Do not drive faster than 3/4 of the maximum speed of the gear in use,

that is 3/4 of the maximum permissible engine speed.

Do not use full throttle.

Avoid high engine revolutions.

Do no tow a trailer

FROM 1000 UP TO 1500 KILOMETRES

Increase the power output of the engine GRADUALLY full speed of the gear engaged ,that is up to the maximum permissible engine revolutions."

---------------------

So.. With DSG S-mode shuld not be used before after 1500km? correct?

[Can]

I'm assuming there is diffrent versions of the manual as on mine its page 178

New tyres do not offer optimal grip at first and should therefore be run in for about 500km at a moderate speed and an appropriatly cautious style of driving. You will also profit from longer tyre life."

"The tread depth of new tyres may differ because of design features and the configuration of the tread (depending on the type of tyre and the manufacturer)."

But I still don't understand what they are basing this on. It may just be the engineer in me but I always like to get as much information as I can on things I don't understand.

[Guest]

I am currently awaiting a Fabia Greenline II Estate. I was wondering about how to run the car in and came across some very good ideas in the forums. Searching the internet I came across the MotoMan's method (http://www.mototuneu..._in_secrets.htm) of breaking in an engine - controversial. Anyone has firsthand experience or any opinions on the matter?

Thanks

Welcome to the site Master, your in a good place. Good choice of car by the way, you will love it.

Now I'm not an engine scientist or any sort of expert. However, I do have thirty years experience as an engineer and motor technician. That doesn't mean I'm right about everything but I've been able to form what I believe are fairly sensible view points on this running in thing. Some may disagree which is fine, but I've seen a lot of differing methods used and the results they produce.

The 'Mototune' (or 'Motoman' as many motorcyclists know it) running in method is indeed controversial. It's important to understand that this method was designed to be used on race cars and race motorcycles. I used it myself in my younger days for bedding in my race engines on motorcycles, and nothing much has change regarding this even today. However, to use it safely the engine should be set-up ready for this method of running in. And it's important to understand the engine WILL have a shorter life expectancy and could suffer an engine component failure inspite of what some internet guru's tell you. I've seen this first hand recently on race and road engine that have used the motoman method. I'm a biker and I have colleagues who have used the motoman method to run their bikes in. One or two have regretted it. It generates huge amounts of stress and heat within the engine.

As such race teams setup their engines with bigger piston ring clearances to avoid heat engine seizure. Factory engines designed for the road are not designed that way so it's pushing things to the limit to use that Motoman method. There are other setup differences too that should be built in to the engine for that method of running in. But generally, for the road you want a smooth, quiet, powerful, economical engine that will last a very very long time. Motoman generally won't deliver that in many cases. If it did the manufacturers of the engines would tell you to do it that way. Some will say there is a performance gain in an engine that used the motoman method...but actually this is only because it loosens the engine very rapidly in the early few hundred miles, but a normally run in engine will usually exceed that performance, but just take a wee bit longer to get there. However, the main advantage the normally run in engine has is that the performance will last. Motoman engines tend to lose performance over bigger mileages and will often start to sound noisy and use oil. This is due to the fact the extreme pressures and heat cause too much metal to metal contact in the first few miles of the engines life, causing too much metal to be removed from the cylinder bores and rings. This often prevents the proper hardening and conforming of the bores and rings and other bearings, that is needed for road use. It doesn't matter so much for a race car as the engine don't do many miles before being stripped and rebuilt. In other words motorman engines tend to just wears out more quickly.

I'm not saying to go easy with your new engine. Just drive it fairly normally like the guys are saying and it will be fine.

[sharkrider]

all good info... but I am not an engineer, but I have bought a new car every 3 years over the last 15 years, never run them in carefully, and drove them "as normal" from day one, done over 100k in ever car ... (the fiat went to 107k, my highest was a saxo VTR at 145k) and have never had an engine fail, and have never had to top up with oil. ever. this is MY experiance. I appreciate people may have different experiances, but why are SO many new vRS owners having to top up their oil in the first 2k of the life of their engine? (following the guide posted from the manual erlier) why (when I picked mine up with 14 miles on it, and booted it to the red line on the first slip road just for fun) have not had to top mine up? 1700 miles and the oil is still clear, still at max the fuel economy is improving, the power is improving... I think its running innicely

[Guest]

all good info... but I am not an engineer, but I have bought a new car every 3 years over the last 15 years, never run them in carefully, and drove them "as normal" from day one, done over 100k in ever car ... (the fiat went to 107k, my highest was a saxo VTR at 145k) and have never had an engine fail, and have never had to top up with oil. ever. this is MY experiance. I appreciate people may have different experiances, but why are SO many new vRS owners having to top up their oil in the first 2k of the life of their engine? (following the guide posted from the manual erlier) why (when I picked mine up with 14 miles on it, and booted it to the red line on the first slip road just for fun) have not had to top mine up? 1700 miles and the oil is still clear, still at max the fuel economy is improving, the power is improving... I think its running innicely

Hi Sharkrider,

I think you are prolly running in your engines to near perfection. But from your posts it's clear you are not using the Motoman running in method which is absolutely brutal to the engine. You are merely driving it hard which is quite different. Motoman running in technique should be over in less than one hour of actual throttle time (excluding cooling down time). Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy the car.

[sharkrider]

Hi Sharkrider,

I think you are prolly running in your engines to near perfection. But from your posts it's clear you are not using the Motoman running in method which is absolutely brutal to the engine. You are merely driving it hard which is quite different. Motoman running in technique should be over in less than one hour of actual throttle time (excluding cooling down time). Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy the car.

well said... i Just scanned through that artical, maybe I will read it in detail.

I drive "normally" some of it is constant 2.5k 70 mph, 1.5 k 50 mph, but as much is also bouncing off the red line at 7k overtaking vehicals..... (and just having fun fior the hell of it) I certainly don't "race" an engine from new.... just use all the peramiters in a way it will be used for the rest of its life

Edited 27 February, 2011 by sharkrider

[raisbeck]

I am currently awaiting a Fabia Greenline II Estate. I was wondering about how to run the car in and came across some very good ideas in the forums. Searching the internet I came across the MotoMan's method (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) of breaking in an engine - controversial. Anyone has firsthand experience or any opinions on the matter?

Thanks

As its a Greenline your bound to see just how far you can eek out your fuel. This is all well land good but not advisable during the run in period. Just drive the the thing like you owned it for 20000 miles already.

Its not rocket science. Just dont thrash it or labour it by pootling about. Avoid steady rpm for long periods. Let it warm up fully before you give it some beans. I ran in my Greenline by just driving normally. Has now loosened up nicely and burns no oil at all.

Be prepared for lower than expected economy for the first few thousand miles. I was very surprised how much of an improvement in smoothness, economy and driveability I gained after about 10,000 miles.

Technology has moved on since iffy tolerances on engine manufacture. Doesnt do any harm to be sensible though.

[mrgf]

Not trying to be funny here but since when do tyres need to be run in? I've always found that new tyres give me the best grip. I realise if you where using fresh out of the factory tyres they will be contaminated by the releasing agent. However I've never experianced this in any car fitted with new tires.

Ok, now try getting the same grip from new, on a high powered mororcycle, tyres straight from the dealer, cold! If you can come back here to respond, you were not really trying!

[vRSy]

Ok, now try getting the same grip from new, on a high powered mororcycle, tyres straight from the dealer, cold! If you can come back here to respond, you were not really trying!

agreed. tyres 100% have a period of scrubbing in before giving optimum grip. My toyo T1Rs needed around 400miles before they gave acceptable grip, the first 100 miles were dangerous.

my vredestein ultrac sessantas by comparison only required about 50-100 miles and were giving more grip by that point than the toyos did at their best.

The scrub in period is most noticable on high performance tyres

[Can]

Never been a biker and never want to be one.

So it's more of a high performance tyre thing more than an everyday tyre issue.

Must say I've never realy pushed tyres untill I've got them nice and hot anyway. I've done this since passing and even before passing my test (not during as they fail you for that) as I was told never to push a car on cold tyres and just never questioned it to be honest.

I take that as leason learnt and will watch out for this in future.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

[Master02]

Thanks for everyone for their comments.