Scout wheels and tyres - sounding out you knowledgeable people :)

[toonfan66]

This has probably been asked before so apologies, but I couldn't find an answer to my specific question and I could do with canvassing opinion before I make a decision.

First some facts/background:

My TDi Scout was built last week (week 24) so I should get it within 3 weeks or so.

I intend getting steel wheels and winter tyres fitted (we drive to the Alps to go skiing so we do need them).

The standard fit summer tyres on the Proteus alloys are, I believe, 225/50R17.

I am going to buy 4 new 16" steel wheels from Skoda to which my winter tyres will be fitted (the Proteus alloys, complete with summer tyres, will be stored in the garage over the winter, I already have a wheel tree).

The 'alternative' sized tyres recommended by Skoda seem to be 205/55R16, which would fit the steelies I'm going to get, but there is a 3.8% different in circumference when compared to the summer tyres the car comes with.

However, 205/60R16 tyres are a much closer match to the summer 225/50R17 tyres fitted (only a 0.7% difference), and they have a little more sidewall height (approx 1cm more) to help absorb bumps and potholes.

I know 205/60R16s are less common and are likely to be a little more expensive than 205/55R16s but cost isn't my main concern as they will last a number of years and the cost difference per year should be negligible.

Now the question:

Is there any reason, technical, safety, legal, or other-wise, why I shouldn't fit 205/60R16 winter tyres to 16" steel wheels as opposed to 205/55R16 tyres?

Thanks in advance

PS I will post pictures when I get it, if only to prove to people that placing an order does (eventually) result in a car on the driveway

[London Les]

I've been around this loop with my Scout - and like you decided that steel wheels and 60 series tyres would be the best combination of performance and robustness for winter conditions, if you don't use chains. I believe the 55 series tyres on 16" wheels are specified to give enough clearance for chains - but it does mean that the wheels look small on the Scout.

The problem is that if you deviate from manufacturer's approved spec then you potentially could have a loophole that could prevent the manufacturer's warranty and insurance paying out.

The best list I have seen of all Skoda's recommended wheel and tyre sizes is on the Skoda Germany site @ http://www.skoda.de/index.php?e=348-10-23

I chickened out in the end and got some Yeti Spitzberg alloys and 225/50R17 winter tyres.

[mark999]

Information from Skoda regarding winter tyres/wheels for my 2010 PD Scout.

Thank you for your email dated 5 December 2010 regarding the correct size of tyre and wheel to be used for driving in the snow.

As requested please find below the combination of tyre and wheel that can be used for your vehicle: -

tyre size wheel size

195/65 R15 91V 6J x 15

195/65 R15 91V 6.5J x 15

205/60 R15 91V 6.5J x 15

205/55 R16 91V 6J x 16

205/55 R16 91V/W 6.5J x 16

205/50 R17 89V 6J x 17

Thank you again for contacting Skoda Customer Services.

Kind regards

John Good, Case Advisor | Customer Service

ŠkodaAuto UK | Selectapost 34 | Sheffield | S97 3FA

Tel: +44 (0)845 7745745 | fax: +44 (0)844 8267855

[email protected] | www.skoda.co.uk | www.skoda-auto.com

Škoda. Simply Clever

[nudger2000]

Same info here.

The 205/60 tyres are only recommended on 15" wheels as far as Skoda as concerned - and in the German info that I had, they all have a big "nein" against the column: "Schneeketten zulässig" - in other words, not permissible to be used with snow chains. Which would be inconvenient if you are taking your car into the Alps.

They told me that the only tyres that were to be used with chains would be the 195/65 R15 (6J or 6.5J) or the 205/55 R16 (6J only - definitely not the 6.5J).

So as the 16" wheels probably look better than 15" on the Scout, the latter is what I went for.

And, as my insurance company confirmed, this is fine with them because it is on the list that Skoda gave me in writing. So they only wanted to be told when they were fitted - they weren't going to invalidate my cover or charge me any extra.

[Jeeves]

Information from Skoda regarding winter tyres/wheels for my 2010 PD Scout.

Thank you for your email dated 5 December 2010 regarding the correct size of tyre and wheel to be used for driving in the snow.

As requested please find below the combination of tyre and wheel that can be used for your vehicle: -

tyre size wheel size

195/65 R15 91V 6J x 15

195/65 R15 91V 6.5J x 15

205/60 R15 91V 6.5J x 15

205/55 R16 91V 6J x 16

205/55 R16 91V/W 6.5J x 16

205/50 R17 89V 6J x 17

Thank you again for contacting Skoda Customer Services.

Kind regards

John Good, Case Advisor | Customer Service

ŠkodaAuto UK | Selectapost 34 | Sheffield | S97 3FA

Tel: +44 (0)845 7745745 | fax: +44 (0)844 8267855

[email protected] | www.skoda.co.uk | www.skoda-auto.com

Škoda. Simply Clever

This has got to be advice only and not something by which to later deny you warranty as it would preclude you driving in the snow on your default OE wheels and tyres. Anything which is almost identical to( i.e. within tolerance) the original circumference and on a wheel of similar offset and spec has got to be OK in my book. I'm going for either 225/55 R 17 or 225/45 R 17 on original Proteus wheels and without chains. Don't forget that CWTs are not only for snow.

[skoda23]

This has got to be advice only and not something by which to later deny you warranty as it would preclude you driving in the snow on your default OE wheels and tyres. Anything which is almost identical to( i.e. within tolerance) the original circumference and on a wheel of similar offset and spec has got to be OK in my book. I'm going for either 225/55 R 17 or 225/45 R 17 on original Proteus wheels and without chains. Don't forget that CWTs are not only for snow.

[skoda23]

The guy i work for bought a scout last year as we have been experiencing a few bad winters here in ireland with the past few years.

We need to travel a fair distance to work and needed the scout but goin nowhere on the 17 inch wheels

We fitted a set of 15 inch steel rims with 4 winter tyres and you could go any where with it in any conditions (195/65/15)

Also if you check a wheel calculator online the difference in your spedo will be very small if any with the 15 inch

I recently fttted 17 inch rs alloys to my own octy witch had 15 inch rims and found no spedo change at all

[Constant]

I am absolutely sure that 225/50/17 winter tyres are approved for use on the Scout (actually same size as the default Summer tyres), why are these not on the quoted list from the customer support?

I am very happy with the winter performance from my 225/50/17, 100% grip on all types of snow except for the compressed icy snow.

Edited 20 June, 2011 by Constant

[toonfan66]

Thanks for your comments, they are appreciated.

In normal driving with winter tyres and 16" steel wheels 206/60R16s should be fine, and they are a good match to the rolling circumference of the summer 225/50R17s fitted at the factory.

Where it gets tricky is what if you need to put on chains (in 6 yrs driving to the Alps in winter I've yet to do - good job as I didn't have any and relied on Quattro and winter tyres) will there be the risk of fouling somewhere? The last place you need to have a mechanical incident of your own making is in conditions where chains are required :( I would probably go for non-conventional chains, such as Spikes Spider or the like, so maybe their design, with nothing encroaching on the inner side of the tyre, means my fears are unfounded and the 60 profile tyre would be fine!

I know winter tyres can be had in 225/50R17 but I don't want to swap tyres twice a year, I don't want to buy a set of 17" alloys (don't think 17" steel wheels can be had in the right size), and I don't want the added expense of a set of 225 section winter tyres. I am working on the assumption that 16" steel wheels and 205 section tyres would be a more cost-effective option in the long run; and the narrower tyre will offer better traction.

I think 205/55R16s are the one most would go with as they are recommended and there is less likely to be any come back. However, much to my surprise, the 205/60R16s were substantially cheaper (approx 40 Euro per tyre) which is a lot when you multiply by four).

Decisions decisions, 55 or 60? 55 or 60? Still undecided, never mind, still loads of time to go before a decision needs to be made

Edited 20 June, 2011 by toonfan66

[jrw]

Surely the standard tyres are 225/45/17?

If that is the case then they would be 205/55/16 for the winters...

Edit - does seem they are non common 225/50/17.... :wonder:

Edited 20 June, 2011 by jrw

[Constant]

If you choose the 205/55/R16, the advantage is that these tyres are approved by Skoda for normal snow chains. With 225/50/R17 there is not enough space for a normal chain between tyre and suspension (and you have to buy 250-300 Euro Maggi Traks or Spyders). I am not sure about the difference between 205/55/R16 and 205/60/R16, but please note that there is only little margin for error since the tyres are in width and in hight very close to the suspension.

Please check the TÜV certification (list of allowed combinations regarding car, tyres, snow chains) before buying, since some types of R16 rims are too close to the suspension to allow snow chains. If you hit a rock or a bump while driving with chains, your wheel will lock since the chains will hit the suspension and you might loose control over the car.

[Stevoraith]

Surely the standard tyres are 225/45/17?

If that is the case then they would be 205/55/16 for the winters...

Edit - does seem they are non common 225/50/17.... :wonder:

Yeah, the Scouts have slightly different tyre sizes, as do TT's actually.

I've been looking at mk2 TT alloys on eBay and found that they come with 225/50/17s as standard rather than the 225/45 you would expect.

There also seems to be a lot of talk on here about snow chains.

Obviously for the original poster this could be a consideration as he intends to take his car to the alps and I appreciate that some of our posters live on the continent where chains may be appropriate.

But here in the UK (apart from perhaps in the highlands) there is never the need for chains and I bet 99% of winter tyre users will never fit chains.

I'm not saying don't be aware of the issues with chains as it could affect some people, but if you are looking at getting a winter set-up I wouldn't bother spending extra getting wheels and/or tyres which allow you to fit chains unless you really think you will need them.

[Stuart_J]

I managed to go most places that others couldnt get last winter on the std Dunlops, sometimes not easy but I got there. If really slippery I developed a technique of just letting the clutch up without touching the accelerator & just letting the car sort itself out before slowly adding revs & always leaving a huge gap to stop The biggest problem was the queue of other cars clogging the roads & snow tyres wouldnt have helped there.

If you are in the highlands where you get a lot of snow then winter tyres are worth considering.

Ive been to ski resorts several times with 2WD cars & never had a problem, only needing chains once & that was just to get up the slope out of the hotel car park. I found generally they are well experienced at clearing roads & again the only issues ever were queues due to traffic volume.

If you fit winter tyres you may be comprimising grip in other conditions, I looked at some winter tyres last year & some internet research showed they were excellent in snow but described as ditch grabbers in the wet.

lastly I know in Germany & possibly other continental countries the min tread depth for winter tyres is 4mm, a cheap option is a set of part worns from Germany, usually coming with at least 5mm of tread, OK not as good as the 8 or 9 mm they start life with but on a Scout with 4x4 capability they will go most places, lasy year one place was selling them for £120 a set, unfortunately I cant remember the name

[Constant]

The topic starter wants to go skiing in the Alps, and unless he is going to do Summer skiing in Zermatt, going there during winter (or early Spring) on Summer tyres will result in serious legal and insurance problems if involved in an accident. And of course risking injuries to driver, passengers or third parties. Or getting stuck on the Autobahn or mountain pass during a snow storm or icing conditions.

Your statistics on the need for winter tyres and/or chains is not realistic, on many occasions I had to use chains or would have been in trouble without my winter tyres. And I learned by a near accident how dangerous it can be to drive on Summer tyres in the Alps. Although I agree with you that during many winter days in the Alps there appears no need for winter tyres, the weather in the Alps is unpredictable (sometimes even with an 12 hour range). The weather can rapidly change into slippery conditions in which even an experienced driver in a 4x4 with new winter tyres has to be very careful.

The legal minimum tread for winter tyres in Germany is actually 2 mm, eventhough 4 mm would have been logical due to performance loss (legal limit in Austria). Paying 120 GBP for using the last mm of tread does not make economical sense to me, it might be even more expensive as new tyres (unless you want to go only once to the Alps, but renting winter tyres for a week is cheaper and easier). Driving on used tyres might also cause instability.

Please note that a 4x4 has the same breaking performance as a normal car, downhill all cars are equal and many 4x4 with Summer tyres have already crashed in the Alps. Please also note that Summer tyres with chains only have half the grip of wintertyres (without chains!). During snowy and especially during icing conditions in the Alps you will need both winter tyres and chains (legally and for your own and other peoples sake!).

described as ditch grabbers in the wet.

On a cold wet surface, winter tyres clearly outperform Summer tyres. Actually winter tyres have better disposal of water than most Summer tyres.

For people not making much milage and not going to the snowy places with hills, I would like to suggest to consider 4-seasons tyres, which have been significantly improved during the last years.

Edited 22 June, 2011 by Constant

[Rab-k]

The following sites are useful for comparing original alloy wheel/tyre combinations with possible alternative steel wheel/tyre combinations.

The speed difference between the two should not exceed 4%.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html

http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

The kouki site also has a table for rim/tyre width size comparisson.

[toonfan66]

The topic starter wants to go skiing in the Alps ...

... I would like to suggest to consider 4-seasons tyres, which have been significantly improved during the last years.

I fitted Vredestein Quattrac 3s to my A4 about 3 years ago and have used them ever since, winters and summers. I found them brilliant in the snow, especially when they had full tread on them, and was amazed at what slopes I could safely negotiate and the grip levels available in all snow conditions. I have been really pleased at the wear rate too, much more robust than I had expected, and the summer performance has been good too, never a 'dodgy' moment. They come highly recommended.

I bought them when my tyres needed replacing anyway, but this time I'll have a car with brand new tyres on which don't need replacing hence the opportunity to go for new wheels and full winter tyres; just means swapping them over twice a year. In the long run (I plan on keeping the car quite a few years) it shouldn't really cost that much more apart from the cost of the wheels, all I'll be doing is buying a two sets of tyres but half as frequently. An added bonus is the alloys will be safely tucked away in the garage when the worst of the weather (and salt) is on the roads

Edited 22 June, 2011 by toonfan66

[Rab-k]

17" 'Proteus' alloys 7Jx17" 225/50 R17 94W is what you'll get on the car when new.

You could try fitting Skoda 15" 'Avantgarda' steels 6.0Jx15" (£55 ea.) with 205/65 R15 tyres.

205mm is the max tyre width you can fit onto 6.0Jx15" wheels, according to kouki

205/65 R15 tyres are only 1.4% out from the 225/50 R17 speed: When your speedo reads 30mph you will actually be doing 29.6mph, or 59.2mph when the speedo reads 60mph - which is legal.

The winter tyres being narrower than the summer is what you want as the narrow profile provides better traction by not tending to 'float' over the snow.

Mytyres do 20 brands in the 205/65 R15 winter range, including

Dunlop SP WINTER SPORT 3D

Pirelli W 210 Sottozero S2

Nokian WR G2

Continental WinterContact TS 830

Goodyear ULTRA GRIP 7+

Michelin ALPIN A4

Check the links in my previous post.

[Constant]

The winter tyres being narrower than the summer is what you want as the narrow profile provides better traction by not tending to 'float' over the snow.

Actually with 225 wide tyres (Conti TS810) I can confirm you that my Scout never lost grip on snow and I have thousands of miles through snow (including snow storms all the way from Amsterdam to the Swiss border!) and icing conditions. I did a test on an empty road with an 3-5 cm layer of snow: I fully hit the brakes at 70 km/hr and no loss of control (also thanks to ESP). I did a very steep hill and no loss of grip, same hill down, also no loss of grip. Narrow winter tyres dig better into deep snow and therefore have better stability (eg driven through a layer of 10-20 cm of snow on country side, especially while taking a corner), while wide winter tyres will have better grip on snow. My advice is to choose narrow for people living in the country and wide winter tyres for city people (I do not know what to advice for city people going to the country side during the winter ).

Edited 22 June, 2011 by Constant

[turniphead]

Just to ask a really basic question, if i get winter tyres and steel wheels, do i need to get them fitted on and off the car by a mechanic or can i just change them myself? they dont need tracking or balancing or whatever they do at tyre shops? sorry i dont know much about cars......obviously

cheers

[Jeeves]

Just to ask a really basic question, if i get winter tyres and steel wheels, do i need to get them fitted on and off the car by a mechanic or can i just change them myself? they dont need tracking or balancing or whatever they do at tyre shops? sorry i dont know much about cars......obviously

cheers

By all means, change them yourself but you will undoubtedly find they will need balancing. The higher speed you drive - the more noticeable this will be. Once balanced you can fit, remove and refit at will (for prevailing weather) and they shouldn't need balancing unless you kerb the wheel (less likely to damage a steel wheel with a higher profile tyre), or a balancing weight comes off. Costco will change all 4 wheels for £7.00 + VAT (total for 4 wheels).

If your tracking is already OK and there's no discernable difference in wear across the tread, then you shouldn't need tracking - and don't be persuaded that you do.

[zippy]

Does anyone know whether it is possible to fit R17 VRS wheels to the Scout for the winter - but with the standard Scout size 225/50 tyres rather than the VRS OEM 225/45 tyres?  Is the wheel width / offset okay?  Thanks in anticipation...

[neil_f]

I managed to go most places that others couldnt get last winter on the std Dunlops, sometimes not easy but I got there. If really slippery I developed a technique of just letting the clutch up without touching the accelerator & just letting the car sort itself out before slowly adding revs & always leaving a huge gap to stop The biggest problem was the queue of other cars clogging the roads & snow tyres wouldnt have helped there.

If you are in the highlands where you get a lot of snow then winter tyres are worth considering.

Ive been to ski resorts several times with 2WD cars & never had a problem, only needing chains once & that was just to get up the slope out of the hotel car park. I found generally they are well experienced at clearing roads & again the only issues ever were queues due to traffic volume.

If you fit winter tyres you may be comprimising grip in other conditions, I looked at some winter tyres last year & some internet research showed they were excellent in snow but described as ditch grabbers in the wet

Yeah if you buy cheap tyres they will be poor in the wet but that's the same as buying cheap summer tyres.

Why do people who have four wheel drive think it means their vehicle will be great in snow/ice or slippery conditions. It will have better traction to initially pull away but braking and steering will still be hopeless. Having used winter tyres for two years now the difference in grip levels is amazing even in wet conditions.

[Jeeves]

Does anyone know whether it is possible to fit R17 VRS wheels to the Scout for the winter - but with the standard Scout size 225/50 tyres rather than the VRS OEM 225/45 tyres?  Is the wheel width / offset okay?  Thanks in anticipation...

YES - If 225s fit your wheels currently, any larger profile will fit the rim too although 225/55 is your maximum 17“ that will fit a Scout. 225 is also the maximum recommended width tyre for Proteus wheels, although I've run 245s on 18“ Zenith wheels on my Scout without any issue. I think the rim width is 1/2" wider on the vRS wheels.

[scandalxk]

On 22/06/2011 at 20:17, toonfan66 said:

I fitted Vredestein Quattrac 3s to my A4 about 3 years ago and have used them ever since, winters and summers. I found them brilliant in the snow, especially when they had full tread on them, and was amazed at what slopes I could safely negotiate and the grip levels available in all snow conditions. I have been really pleased at the wear rate too, much more robust than I had expected, and the summer performance has been good too, never a 'dodgy' moment. They come highly recommended.

I bought them when my tyres needed replacing anyway, but this time I'll have a car with brand new tyres on which don't need replacing hence the opportunity to go for new wheels and full winter tyres; just means swapping them over twice a year. In the long run (I plan on keeping the car quite a few years) it shouldn't really cost that much more apart from the cost of the wheels, all I'll be doing is buying a two sets of tyres but half as frequently. An added bonus is the alloys will be safely tucked away in the garage when the worst of the weather (and salt) is on the roads

 

Toonfan, what did you get in the end? I was searching for information on this topic because I had, independently, come to the conclusion that 205/60 R16 were the best option - but my concerns are exactly the same as the ones in your original post.  Oh - and one additional problem: I do a lot of work on construction sites where I need good clearance, and of course the smaller the wheel and tyre combination, the lower the sump.

Edited 22 November, 2017 by scandalxk

[0ctavist]

the official Skoda wheel combinations with(ja) or without(nein) snow chain(Schneeketten zulässig) permission( if snow chains not more than 15mm)

 

Look for your engine code, than the type, and compare your  e xxxx-  numbers

 

 

 

Edited 23 November, 2017 by 0ctavist