Took my wife's car for its' first service yesterday @ 9500 miles. Thought long and hard about taking my own VW 507 approved oil with me but discovered that dealer "will not use/fit customer's own parts/lubricants".

All went well until I was invited to pay for the service when I noticed a charge for 'PD engine oil'!!!

I queried this and the service receptionist offered to go and check with the 'Master Technician'. He returned to say that they had "made a mistake".

To be fair he immediately said they'd drain the oil and replace the filter - the car had been driven a few yards to the washing bay by this time.When I was asked to pay I was told that they'd discounted the bill as a means of saying sorry and noted that the oil billed for was now 'longlife' .

I my view we can all make mistakes and what is important is the way that the mistake is 'dealt with'.

Thought I'd post this to alert other CR diesel owners to be vigilant when having their cars serviced. Diesel Particulate Filters don't like oils other than VW 507 in long term!!

Alan

Edited 30 July, 201114 yr by aak

Took my wife's car for its' first service yesterday @ 9500 miles. Thought long and hard about taking my own VW 507 approved oil with me but discovered that dealer "will not use/fit customer's own parts/lubricants".

All went well until I was invited to pay for the service when I noticed a charge for 'PD engine oil'!!!

I queried this and the service receptionist offered to go and check with the 'Master Technician'. He returned to say that they had "made a mistake".

To be fair he immediately said they'd drain the oil and replace the filter - the car had been driven a few yards to the washing bay by this time.When I was asked to pay I was told that they'd discounted the bill as a means of saying sorry and noted that the oil billed for was now 'longlife' .

I my view we can all make mistakes and what is important is the way that the mistake is 'dealt with'.

Thought I'd post this to alert other CR diesel owners to be vigilant when having their cars serviced. Diesel Particulate Filters don't like oils other than VW 507 in long term!!

Alan

HHHHHmmmmmm.

A VAG dealer really ought not to make this mistake as 99.9% of people would not have spotted the error.

It could have been expensive as on top of DPF contamination how well would 505.01 actually lubricate the CR engine and would any issues have shown up until well out of warranty?

507 is of course fine in a PD as what is used for the longlife service.

How would it affect the DPF? Its engine oil, not diesel so it shouldn't get anywhere near the DPF... Or am I missing something obvious?! Don't the PD 1.4 and 1.2 TDis fitted with DPFs use the older oils, for instance?

Hi

Further to my original post. Found this comment relating to Quantum Longlife oil (VW 504/507 approved) :

• Low ash formulation to maintain Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) performance (note: VW Group vehicles fitted

with a DPF must use Quantum LongLife III oil)

On page 210 of the owner's handbook it lists the specification of the oils to use in the CR diesel engine i.e. VW 507 approved although it does appear to conceed that if no oil to spec. is available then VW 505.01 can be used once to top-up only!!

Confused? Yep me too!

PM - I agree the quantity of oil that will be 'burnt' and enter the DPF will be small/insignificant? but why give an oil spec. in the handbook if it is not considered important?

delta925 - It probably wouldn't be noticed by most people. As said above the correct oil specification is listed in the handbook with warnings of potential engine damage if not adhered to so that's why I thought I'd post my 'experience' as a cautionary tale for other owners.

Regards

Alan

When it comes to oils and VAG I have my concerns, I can remember the fiasco when they introduced the PD engine and insisted that the only oil that could be used was theirs and that no others were acceptable... This just seems the same scenario... Whilst I understand the use of correct oil I still can't see how it would affect the DPF...

Also, that is the Long Life oil,is it not? Does that mean that the 3 cyl PD engines which have a DPF but are on standard 1yr/10k servicing regime must use that oil even though its not designed for that engine?

It would be interesting to have those points clarified by someone from Skoda or VW, though I won't hold my breath as they are the ones getting the extra money from us having to use only oils they specify and supply...

When it comes to oils and VAG I have my concerns, I can remember the fiasco when they introduced the PD engine and insisted that the only oil that could be used was theirs and that no others were acceptable... This just seems the same scenario... Whilst I understand the use of correct oil I still can't see how it would affect the DPF...

Also, that is the Long Life oil,is it not? Does that mean that the 3 cyl PD engines which have a DPF but are on standard 1yr/10k servicing regime must use that oil even though its not designed for that engine?

It would be interesting to have those points clarified by someone from Skoda or VW, though I won't hold my breath as they are the ones getting the extra money from us having to use only oils they specify and supply...

Hi PM

All fair points. Seems that low ash producing oils are required for DPF equipped cars as the 'ash' produced by combustion will be filtered by the DPF in a similar way to the other 'particles' produced by combustion but can't be burnt off during regen so will over time clog the filter!!

VW 507 approved oil is 'backward compatible' for PD engined cars.

Ultimately the cynical among us - myself included - will think that it's a ploy to ensure that we use 'more costly' VAG products but until my car's warranty ends OR until we get a 'definitive' answer from SKODA I suggest that we stick with the approved oil.

Regards

Alan

P.S. I still use VW 505.01 approved oil in my Mk1 Fabia vRS !!

Edited 4 August, 201114 yr by aak

aak, you've explain it well. There is always lots of confusion about oil. The PD engine when it first came out had to use (as it does now) a suitable oil with 'extreme pressure agents' in (505.01). This was of course to protect the cams. If this wasn't used the engine cam lobes (which drive the injector pumps) were plasticine in months. I know as I replaced a fair few in my time because owners ignored the VW instructions on oil. At the time 'PD' oil was difficult to come by unless you bought it from VW dealers or Skoda dealers, so people were just putting in ordinary fully synthetic oil thinking it was ok. It wasn't and still isn't for any PD engine. That's why VW became a bit anal about telling people what oil to use, with every justification. Low ash 507 is of course ok for PD's and that's what I use in mine. It actually supersedes all previous oil in the VW arsenal for our diesels. The 1.2CR 3 cyl is not a PD like the 1422cc 3 cylinder and the 1.9 4 cylinder units and requires just a low ash oil such as the 507. Using 507 in any DPF equipped car is much better for the life of the DPF as all diesels make soot of some kind even if you can't see it. That soot contains oil based particles, albeit burnt ones that will clog the filter very quickly.

One thing...VW oil is not expensive. Bought over the counter from a Skoda dealer it comes out at £6.49 per litre plus VAT. That's much cheaper than most other makes on the market and it's fully syn as well. It's possible to get it even cheaper on line.

aak, you've explain it well. There is always lots of confusion about oil. The PD engine when it first came out had to use (as it does now) a suitable oil with 'extreme pressure agents' in (505.01). This was of course to protect the cams. If this wasn't used the engine cam lobes (which drive the injector pumps) were plasticine in months. I know as I replaced a fair few in my time because owners ignored the VW instructions on oil. At the time 'PD' oil was difficult to come by unless you bought it from VW dealers or Skoda dealers, so people were just putting in ordinary fully synthetic oil thinking it was ok. It wasn't and still isn't for any PD engine. That's why VW became a bit anal about telling people what oil to use, with every justification. Low ash 507 is of course ok for PD's and that's what I use in mine. It actually supersedes all previous oil in the VW arsenal for our diesels. The 1.2CR 3 cyl is not a PD like the 1422cc 3 cylinder and the 1.9 4 cylinder units and requires just a low ash oil such as the 507. Using 507 in any DPF equipped car is much better for the life of the DPF as all diesels make soot of some kind even if you can't see it. That soot contains oil based particles, albeit burnt ones that will clog the filter very quickly.

One thing...VW oil is not expensive. Bought over the counter from a Skoda dealer it comes out at £6.49 per litre plus VAT. That's much cheaper than most other makes on the market and it's fully syn as well. It's possible to get it even cheaper on line.

Hi Estate Man

Many thanks for your input as always most informative. I agree with all you've said and - purchased from the parts department - Skoda oil is indeed very reasonably priced. However when it gets into the service department's hands it does become rather expensive - I think I was charged £40 + VAT (and that was from a barrel!!). If you refer back to my initial post I said that the servicing dealer was not prepared to fit/use customer supplied parts/lubricants so I couldn't save a bit by supplying my own!! What I meant to convey by my 'more costly' reference was the price difference between VW 505.01 PD oil and VW 504/507 longlife oil.

Regards

Alan

Off topic I know ....

...VW oil is not expensive. Bought over the counter from a Skoda dealer it comes out at £6.49 per litre plus VAT. That's much cheaper than most other makes on the market and it's fully syn as well. It's possible to get it even cheaper on line.

However when it gets into the service department's hands it does become rather expensive - I think I was charged £40 + VAT (and that was from a barrel!!).

Many years ago my fathers metro needed a water pump. I went to the local Motaquip agent ( I think, if not one of the major parts brands) who were also an independent garage. Over the counter the pump was about £10.

I asked about fitting since we lived in a village and would have been stuck had anything gone wrong. I can't remember the labour price but the pump would then have been invoiced at about £30, not the £10 ish counter price.

Suffice to say I just bought the pump and fitted it.

Just done a search on VW507 and the dealer "mistake" seems to be no new thing... I can remember my dealer putting in non-PD oil in my 2001 Fabia on its first service back in 2002... You'd think they'd have got the basics right by now, wouldn't you?!

I still remain to be convinced that this latest "special oil" is not just their latest punter rip-off scam, though!

Edited 5 August, 201114 yr by The PM

I think we can rest assured that VW is not trying to rip anyone off. If they were they would not have simplified the oil ratings and grades required for our diesels. VW's oil, and mostly everyone else's now (Shell for example) is 507 long life low ash and is backward compatible for PD's and CR's alike, superseding 505.01 if you like. If you buy VW's own brand it's top quality and cheaper than everyone elses when bought from your Skoda dealer over the counter (£6.45 plus VAT per litre or cheaper online). There is no differentiation between 505.01 & long life 507. This has happened for lots of reason...one being the petrol TSI engines need the same extreme pressure agent that the diesel PD's need and obtained in their 505.01 oil. This is to protect the turbo and more importantly the piston rings which come under extreme pressures and stress when in a turbo petrol car. Without that extreme pressure oil agent the piston rings would be worn out very very quickly in a TSI engine.This also help prevent mistakes as the dealer only has to carry one oil for all VAG engines. He woiuld only need other grades I guess for non VAG engines.

Edited 6 August, 201114 yr by Estate Man

I think we can rest assured that VW is not trying to rip anyone off.

This also help prevent mistakes as the dealer only has to carry one oil for all VAG engines.

Hmm, I'll remain cynical, EM!

Re the second bit, from the OP it seems its not always that simple... Unless they were trying to get rid of the old stock!

Hmm, I'll remain cynical, EM!

Re the second bit, from the OP it seems its not always that simple... Unless they were trying to get rid of the old stock!

I suspect it was probably just they used a semi-syn or even a mineral oil intended for earlier model Skoda's from yesteryear. Many dealerships service other makes as well. My Skoda dealer is a Peugeot, Chrysler dealer too and these makes have there own oil brand specs too, and quite different to Skoda VW engines. Having worked on that side of the business myself I can see how it could happen. Techs are not infallible (yes they are normal human beings, not demons like some on here would have you believe) and at least the dealership held it's hands up as soon as it was spotted and corrected it with courtesy and good service. I don't think we can expect anything more eh. :yes:

And if hadn't been spotted?

Sorry, its just slipshod working practices or slipshod workmen... We pay good money for a main dealer service, over the odds if anything, therefore that sort of thing should not happen. Evidence on this forum and others show that it is all too common... Remember that the only ones we hear about are from people who know a little about their cars and query it, most of Joe Public don't and wouldn't even know about the error until they try to make a claim and Skoda reject it...

Sorry, m8, but there is just no defense for such errors in my eyes, if they can't guarantee even getting the basics (putting the correct oil in is about as basic as servicing gets!) right then what hope have we got?! We will have to agree to differ...

Edited 7 August, 201114 yr by The PM

I don't think we need to agree to differ as we are agreed it shouldn't happen. But we don't know all the circumstances from the OP or the dealership so I don't think we are in a position to make sweeping statements or to be too critical. Although by now the garage will know exactly how this came about as it has cost them money. I've seen this happen only a handful of time in the 30 odd years I've been a tech, and believe it or not mostly it hasn't been the fault of anyone at the dealership. There is more than one way it can happen, not just through a tech making a mistake. There are working practices in place in most dealer ships to make sure it doesn't happen but best plans and all that can on occasions go wrong. To say it's slip shod working practice without knowing all the facts is a bit harsh. If it hadn't been picked up, and if there were consequences, it would have been found out much later and it would have been sorted just like any other problem. Contrary to popular belief dealships do want to get it right and usually put their hands up when it goes wrong. It sounds as if the dealership concerned is a good one. Mistakes in all areas of life do and will continue to happen. You cannot avoid it just follow good practice and reduce the risks of it happening again. But it's how they are handled that's important. Referring back to what we were all saying earlier about oil, the simplification of the oil grades makes this sort of thing even less likely which is why to some extent VW and others have done this. :yes: Mind you, I would still like to know what actually happened in the case of the original OP's car.

Sorry, EM, but I do think its an agree to differ situation... Skoda have known history for it as I can confirm from personal experience, past experience should have told them to be extra careful when dealing with VAG diesels, obviously it still hasn't got through...

I can only hope that they have learned from this mistake, but as I said earlier its not as if its the first time its happened so I won't hold my breath. At the end of the day we pay good money for them to get the basics right.

Edited 7 August, 201114 yr by The PM

Hi

"and at least the dealership held it's hands up as soon as it was spotted and corrected it with courtesy and good service."

Initially I was 'upset' that greater care had not been taken when 'incorrect spec.' oil had been supplied but the workshop staff immediately admitted their mistake and apologised before asking me if i'd be "good enough to wait" while they corrected the situation - and washed the car again!! lol.

I will return to this dealer for service needs as they'll be keen to restore their reputation which is generally considered to be very good indeed. They were also anxious to let me see the 'second' oil and filter change for myself to 'reassure' me and were very obviously embarrassed by their mistake.

I suggest that with the 'range' of type approved oils that are available that we as owners are going to have to be vigilant as the potential for this to happen to others is great. Aside from the 'debate' about the differences between oil types I'm taking the view that if service invoices show that the reccommended grade of oil has been used I will be in a 'stronger' position should any warranty/remedial work be required in future where a question exsists over the type/specification of oil used.

I did consider the possibility of the wrong oil being used as I had considered supplying my own. This would have been less costly and would have negated any concerns I might have had.

On a positive note to end with my wife and I are still enjoying or 'new' car. While not as 'gutsy' or as much fun as our beloved Mk.1 Fabia vRS the 'new' car has - in the last 3589 miles (out of the 10053 miles it has covered in total) recorded an average 59.7 m.p.g with a 'high of 73 m.p.g. on a couple of occasions.

Thanks to all for their comments/observations.

Regards

Alan

Edited 7 August, 201114 yr by aak

Just seen this and checked the service bill for my 1.6CR - oil is listed as "Platinum 5W-40"

Quick google suggests this is 502 and 505 oil but not the required 507 - am I right?

Alan, Quantum Platinum 5-40, as long as it's long life 507 spec oil, it's fine. It supersedes all others. It makes putting the wrong oil in much less likely.

Edited 17 August, 201114 yr by Estate Man

No... IIRC, it's fine. That's a 507 spec oil which supersedes all others. It makes putting the wrong oil in much less likely.

I dunno - http://www.vwspares.co.uk/quantum_oils.php list the "platinum" as 505 (for fixed service intervals) and "longlife" as 507, (suitable for variable service intervals) - but the manual has 507 oil as requirement for both fixed and variable service intervals.

Edited 17 August, 201114 yr by Alan C

I dunno - http://www.vwspares....uantum_oils.php list the "platinum" as 505 (for fixed service intervals) and "longlife" as 507, (suitable for variable service intervals) - but the manual has 507 oil as requirement for both fixed and variable service intervals.

Alan, for DPF equipped cars on variable/fixed servicing you need 'long life 3 Quantum Platinum 5-40'. As you say, a 507 low ash oil. Your invoice probably doesn't say what version of Quantum Platinum 5-40 they have used. So yes you'd better just check with the service department to find out the exact spec they've used.

From here

http://www.theskodashop.co.uk/product/5_Litre_Platinum_Engine_Oil_ZGB115QLB00511

and here

http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1354

Platinum is to spec VW 502 00 / 505 00 / 505 01.

hence fine for PD engines but not CR engines with a DPF.

As Estate Man says the CR must have oil to specification 507.00.

This is the only VW oil specification that is low ash so as not to clog the DPF

regardless of fixed or variable service intervals.

The Quantum oil with this specification is Longlife III

http://www.theskodashop.co.uk/product/5L_Long_Life_Quantum_Engine_Oil_ZGB115QLB00501

http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1141

For the PD engine 507.00 was only needed on variable service intervals otherwise 505.01 was fine unless a DPF was fitted. ( Did any VAG vehicles have a PD engine and a DPF? )

Thanks both,

I've looked at the Quantum website now and seems there is just one "Platinum", and the data sheet states that "note: VW Group vehicles fitted

with a DPF must use Quantum LongLife III oil". The Longlife III is clearly the one to use. So looks like I have to go back and get it changed to safeguard the DPF. How do I bring this up nicely?

I have to say in light of this the vwspares.co.uk website is pretty unhelpful saying the Platinum is suitable "for recent models on fixed service interval" as I think these days a lot of recent VAG models have a DPF - you can understand some mechanics not keeping up, but I'd hoped a Skoda garage would be up to speed.

You may still find they have put the right stuff in. It may just be the invoicing system doesn't show the full name/spec as entered into the sytem. That's quite common. But do check.

The low ash in the 507 oil relates to SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur) which are attributed mainly to the additivesan there diluents used in the formulation employed to make them more easily miscible with the base oil. It is these components, often making up to at least 20% of the finished product that when combusted lead to deposit formation which will be deleterious to the operation of the DPF filter causing blockages which cannot be removed during the regen process.