This is something I will only start considering seriously at the end of the year when my company-car deal is up for renewal, but I'm intrigued by the issue anyway.

So here goes: because of the HUGE price gap here in NL (5k euros) between the TDI and vRS, I'd like to discuss the go's and no-go's of getting a TDI up into vRS territory, or even remapped vRS territory and still undercut the vRS price by a sensible margin.

Skoda NL now offer a full vRS-style sports interior (only with the Elegance fabric covering the sports seats) and 16" rims for 700 euros. A remap to 130hp would set me back 600 euros. So that's 1.3k gone. A good lowered sports suspension set-up would probably set me back about 1k, which leaves me with 2.7k in my pocket, 22% of 5k less to add to my annual income tax (that's the way a company car is valued here) and a pretty quick sleeper out on the driveway.

But how would the two - upgraded TDI v standard vRS - compare? Would the remapped 130hp feel the same as the standard 130hp? What suspension set-up would surpass that of the vRS?

And how would an upgraded TDI compare to an upgraded vRS? Would I miss being able to chip the engine up to 160hp?

I'm all new to Fabia country, so please enlighten me...

Apart from the exterior styling (big bumpers, exhaust trim, spoiler), interior refinements such as "Recaro Style" seats, 3-Spoke Perforated Leather Steering Wheel, Audi TT Pedal Covers, Leather Gearknob, Leather Handbrake Lever, Colour-Coded Mats, Dark Roof Lining, Special Dials, Silver Interior Door Handles and Door Lock Pins...

You get a PD130 instead of a PD100 engine, which is more powerful in stock form and also allows more tuning options if you wish. You get a 6 speed gearbox which is the same as the Audi RS models! You get uprated suspension, bigger brakes (with the option of easilly upgrading them), larger alloys as standard...

Erm!

I can't think of anything else off the top of my head!!!

Thanks, Josh, but I worked all that out when comparing a standard TDI to a standard vRS.

However, I'm interested in a upgraded TDI v standard vRS comparison. The upgrade would include almost all interior options you mention, same-size alloys, a remap to 130hp and sports suspension (I've read good things about the Eibach set-up here). I'm not too bothered about not having the bodykit - my current Octy is a sleeper too.

But thanks for pointing out the 5-speed v 6-speed issue and the brakes. Would I really need bigger brakes? And what are upsides and downsides of a 6-speed 'box?

I'd imagine a tuned PD100 would probably be slightly quicker if thats what your wondering... but there probably wont be much in it.

I changed from a Fabia TDI to a vRS. The vRS has much stiffer suspension, so corners much flatter than a standard TDI (but still with some roll). The gearbox needs to be stirred quite a bit to get the best out of the car, but the effort is worth it.

I can't speak for current TDIs, but the build quality on my vRS isn't as good as my (late-2000) TDI was - more rattles, more wind noise etc.

In your case, is buying a genuine vRS abroad e.g. Denmark or Belgium a cheaper option?

In your case, is buying a genuine vRS abroad e.g. Denmark or Belgium a cheaper option?

The net price wouldn't be cheaper there - there aren't many EU countries with lower net prices than Holland - and the extortionate Dutch luxury tax and VAT would then be slapped on for good measure. It only (nearly) pays off with bigger cars, so I won't go there.

And it's not as if I can't afford a vRS and will go through all lengths to get myself one. It's just that with us an upgraded TDI seems a much better deal. The vRS is simply no VFM car here - no wonder there's just 20 of them circulating the Netherlands...

I'd imagine a tuned PD100 would probably be slightly quicker if thats what your wondering... but there probably wont be much in it.

Yes, thanks Paul, that's what I was wondering.

What difference would the 6-speed 'box make on my sensation of speed rather than the actual speed?

And do I really want 160hp and how would it feel against 130hp, be they tuned or standard?

Oh alright, that last question is rhetorical...

If you got in on a Briskoda group buy, mattijs, it would probably be notmuch more than 700 euro's to come over to jabbasport and take a 150hp car with you back to NL?

However, with a lot of vRS coming out the factory with 140-145hp, there's not a huge difference in performance between my car and an untouched vRS. I'm not sure if anyone at Anglesey say my car going round, but I never got the chance to really say for sure that my car was quicker than vRS' - The book figures would suggest so.

If you got in on a Briskoda group buy' date=' mattijs, it would probably be notmuch more than 700 euro's to come over to jabbasport and take a 150hp car with you back to NL?

However, with a lot of vRS coming out the factory with 140-145hp, there's not a huge difference in performance between my car and an untouched vRS. I'm not sure if anyone at Anglesey say my car going round, but I never got the chance to really say for sure that my car was quicker than vRS' - The book figures would suggest so.[/quote']

i saw you going round.... and went past ya a few times... didnt think it was very fast :P

i saw you going round.... and went past ya a few times... didnt think it was very fast :P

Says he with a totally standard engine map.

The remapped one should rev more freely though, but then you'd need that as the 5 speed won't be able to keep it into the power band as easily

I can't speak for current TDIs' date=' but the build quality on my vRS isn't as good as my (late-2000) TDI was - more rattles, more wind noise etc.

[/quote']

i will agree in part to that, had a 2001 1.4 16v comfort, liked it and then changed to a 1.9TDi comfort 2004, no lights in door, no flaps or ani spray in back wheel arch. Build quality to me felt the same, and now 8 months on changed it for the vRS, a better car all round quitier than than my other tdi, better seats, better road maners, and this is the bit, while i be able to get a better girlfrined, who won't dump me after the six week point!!!!!!!! or refuse to go out in it!!!!!!!! quote from Lola(sharks tale) "deep down i'm just realy superficial"

The remapped one should rev more freely though, but then you'd need that as the 5 speed won't be able to keep it into the power band as easily

I have to slightly disagree as the extra range of each gear in the 5 speed allows for better progress in my opinion, unless the person goes 2nd, 4th, 6th.

I totally love 3rd gear and it accelerates quickly from 30mph to 80mph without pausing for breath - right up to 4500rpm+, the power just doesn't "die" like an unmapped car. Any six speed box drivers care to comment on this? I assume the third gear on a vRS doesn't reach the same speed as mine as why would it have six gears? Might be talking out my :moon: of course.

The power band for a remapped car is definitely widened, if thats the correct way to describe it? Instead of 2000 to 3500rpm, its now 1800rpm to 4500rpm and there's more power to access too. I think my peak BHP was achieved around 3000rpm, but because peak torque is achieved so low (2000rpm) it accelerates as well at 2000rpm as it does at 3000rpm, when BHP kicks in, and torque slackens "slightly". I suspect the remapped vRS is much like this too.

Mattijs

If you are after a sleeper, the it looks like you have picked the decent options.

The personalised remap might get you more than the 130 BHP, one like jabba where they put the car on a rolling road rather than a generic map.

I personally have found that 6th is a motorway cruise gear, but you are still capable of acceleration for overtaking, top appears to be no different, also your concept of speed wouldnt be much different.

Would the remap from Jabba be cheaper ?

So the question is, the total cost of your TDi aganist buying a vRS is ?

Steve

my vrs seemed slower than my previous remapped tdi when i first got the vrs.

vrs quite a blot quicker than the remapped tdi now its been remapped and so it should be.

i always found the handling fairly chuckable in the tdi even on standard wheels and suspension. vrs has more grip and rolls less.

vrs feels and looks much more special inside and out.

mattijs if you were going to buy the tdi and leave it more or less standard then the price difference between the two is worth taking advantage of, but as you are already talking about mods i would go with the vrs as you have a better base to start with.

I'd imagine a tuned PD100 would probably be slightly quicker if thats what your wondering... but there probably wont be much in it.

I compared my standard vRS to Andy Ellis's PD100 when his was pumping out about 145bhp and mine was everso slightly quicker.

I stand corrected then

I personally have found that 6th is a motorway cruise gear' date=' but you are still capable of acceleration for overtaking, top appears to be no different, also your concept of speed wouldnt be much different.

Would the remap from Jabba be cheaper ?

So the question is, the total cost of your TDi aganist buying a vRS is ?

[/quote']

Thanks for filling me in on the gearbox characters - sounds like the 5-speed is good enough for the driving I do.

The Jabba remap is out of the question for me, sadly, not just because of it being impractical but also because of it being a company car. My boss will want the warranty to be upheld so my options are limited - either the official Abt chip at 125hp or JD's remap at a minimum of 130hp. The latter can be delivered by either of two tuner-friendly dealers who will take over all warranty issues themselves.

Anyway, I'm not that interested in the eventual top hp figure. As long as the remap will deliver loads of usable torque in a practical rev range I'm happy.

As for the total-cost comparison - it's 22.3k euros for the upgraded TDI (including sports suspension) against 25k for the standard vRS. However, I'm sure I would shell out for the suspension on the vRS too, so the gap is either 2.7k or 3.7k. I find that serious money. Not to mention the fact that the income-tax addition will be based on both cars' base price, so there it's 20k against 25k...

mattijs if you were going to buy the tdi and leave it more or less standard then the price difference between the two is worth taking advantage of, but as you are already talking about mods i would go with the vrs as you have a better base to start with.

I agree, but then it would become a comparison between a modded TDI and a modded vRS. I would then go for the same suspension upgrade as for the TDI, and a similarly priced remap. The cars would have the same (or similar) sports interior too. That still leaves a sizeable gap of over 4k euros, with the only difference being the hp (oh, and the brakes, of course).

Still is a lot of money to me - 4.3k euros for just 30hp...

Oh, I just remembered another advantage of the TDI - it's quite a bit lighter. Combined with proper suspension, that certainly wouldn't hurt handling-wise.

So decision made then

TDi it is with mods Go for it.

Then you can let us know your impression

Steve

Yes, it sounds like I'm the man with the plan.

I'll be storing all this in my mind for another 9 months or so, and then we'll see again. Doesn't take away anything from the fact that I will be trying lots of other options too...

Hi Dutch4x4,

I'm Dutch as well and I've got a 2001 Fabia Estate/Combi 1.9TDI, with a JD treatment

This treatment made a huge difference in how the car is running, I'm 100% statisfied by it. Now I can use the full rev-range, before I had to change gears at 2500rpm or so because it didn't make sense to rev higher.

The vRS might be a tad faster standard (?) compared to a remapped TDI. I guess a remapped vRS will run circles around even a remapped TDI.

I like my "combi", lots of space, stealthy look, and reasonably fast... well.. it's not as fast as the 600bhp Skyline of my buddy but okay..

PS: you can get a discount to about 500euro for a JD remap if you ask nicely.

vRS all the way, especially if there are not many around as you'll have an exclusive car! That alone has to be worth the extra dosh.

*bump*

The chipped-TDI vs standard-or-chipped-vRS debate in my mind got another twist when I spoke a chipped-vRS driver last week. He said the power felt great but the car was only really starting to become fun to drive from 3rd gear up - and only on motorways as well. 1st and 2nd only gave continuous wheelspin. Although he still liked being able to brag about having lots of hp and tons of torque he wasn't so sure of doing it all over again when given a second chance. He'd now rather have slightly less but more controllable power as he was more of a corner carver than a straight-line blast type of guy.

That would fit in neatly with my upgraded-TDI plans. It would also be the answer to most of the bad points related by Andy here: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/t27240-fabia-vrs---bad-points-.html - I would have been changing tyres, suspension and brakes on the vRS anyway, while the optional Dynamic sports interior available to the TDI (same seats, different cloth) sounds like the better choice too.

Wasn't able to drive the car myself, so sadly I can't vouch for his opinions. So is it just him or does this too-much-a-good-thing sound vaguely familiar to other Fab vRS drivers having slipped down the slope of performance upgrades?