After-market HID kits

[RainbowFire]

The regulations don't state anything about LEDs as break/tail lights does that automatically make them illegal? No of corse not.

To quote the Fact Sheet (again):

"The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law."

-also;

"The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory."

(Reminder: The Fact Sheet is informing you, in plain english, about The Facts of The Law.)

The law also states that the lights have to be 'E' approved to be road-legal. (Again many of the packets of LEDs will state that they are not for road use, because they're not 'E' marked.) Doesn't matter if they're halogen, HID, LED, candles, mint chocolate ice-cream vapour or Martian swamp-gas: No 'E' means not road-legal. I think you'll find that all external lighting on a car will need to be 'E' approved and marked, regardless of headlight, sidelight, indicator etc etc

So, yes, just because they aren't mentioned, does automatically make them illegal, unless they are 'E'marked.

Simples. :no: / :yes:

If you find some 'E' marked, HIDs and LEDs, please share so we can all get them and enjoy much improved safety with road-legalness. :yes: :yes:

(Obviously we'd need them in CANBus flavour too)

=====================================================================================================

130w halogens are not 'E' marked, but produce over twice the light of a standard halogen.

HIDs are quoted as being up to 5 times brighter than that of a standard halogen.

With this in mind, and given the limitations of HID (not effective in main-beam for flashing), personally I have to wonder why we can't use 130w. The filament is in the correct place etc etc.

When I used them on my Renault 9 (pre-'E' requirement age) all the light was in the correct place and no-one was dazzled.

[Llanigraham]

A couple of points that have been brought up since I posted.

LED Headlights.

One company has produced a LED headlight, but only in 7" circular format, so it won't fit any current Skoda's. It is also VERY expensive. Hella are looking at the market but only as an OE offer. The biggest problem is getting the "light" to focus correctly.

100w + Bulbs.

Only one company has ever produced a E marked and that is Piaa. They produced it specifically for motorsport, mainly in Germany. Again, they are very expensive and difficult to find.

The problem is that once you go beyond the 65w EU limit then the behaviour of the reflector/lens alters, and unless everything is perfect they can produce excessive glare.

It is also worth noting that if you do up the wattage then it is easy to overload the wiring, as many Land Rover owners have discovered!

[KenONeill]

100w + Bulbs.

Only one company has ever produced a E marked and that is Piaa. They produced it specifically for motorsport, mainly in Germany. Again, they are very expensive and difficult to find.

The problem is that once you go beyond the 65w EU limit then the behaviour of the reflector/lens alters, and unless everything is perfect they can produce excessive glare.

It is also worth noting that if you do up the wattage then it is easy to overload the wiring, as many Land Rover owners have discovered!

And/or literally melt the bulbholders out of the reflectors; I've seen it happen a couple of times.

[mdon]

To quote the Fact Sheet (again):

"The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law."

-also;

"The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory."

(Reminder: The Fact Sheet is informing you, in plain english, about The Facts of The Law.)

The law also states that the lights have to be 'E' approved to be road-legal. (Again many of the packets of LEDs will state that they are not for road use, because they're not 'E' marked.) Doesn't matter if they're halogen, HID, LED, candles, mint chocolate ice-cream vapour or Martian swamp-gas: No 'E' means not road-legal. I think you'll find that all external lighting on a car will need to be 'E' approved and marked, regardless of headlight, sidelight, indicator etc etc

So, yes, just because they aren't mentioned, does automatically make them illegal, unless they are 'E'marked.

Simples. :no: / :yes:

If you find some 'E' marked, HIDs and LEDs, please share so we can all get them and enjoy much improved safety with road-legalness. :yes: :yes:

(Obviously we'd need them in CANBus flavour too)

=====================================================================================================

130w halogens are not 'E' marked, but produce over twice the light of a standard halogen.

HIDs are quoted as being up to 5 times brighter than that of a standard halogen.

With this in mind, and given the limitations of HID (not effective in main-beam for flashing), personally I have to wonder why we can't use 130w. The filament is in the correct place etc etc.

When I used them on my Renault 9 (pre-'E' requirement age) all the light was in the correct place and no-one was dazzled.

Nah not having that.

Rubbish IMO.

[RainbowFire]

Nah not having that.

Rubbish IMO.

You might think it's rubbish, and that is your, and many others, opinion. The law and the specifications have all your counter-arguments already covered, after all, The Law has been being The Law for far longer than you and I have been alive, and will be doing the same long after we have turned to dust.

Now, if you watch those police 'documentary' programs, you'll find that the police (i.e. those who enforce the laws that you think are rubbish) usually end up impounding a car that was actually stopped for something stupid, and then looked a bit deeper. One guy had his (badly) modded Golf trailored away after being stopped and asked why he was driving around Tescos car-park. He gave the copper some lip, instead of just taking it on the chin and watching the copper walk away. Having been given said lip, the copper went over the car nose-to-tail. The Halfords spray-tint had been applied to the rear cluster, and stopped the reflectors from working correctly. The copper then asked the lad for his German registration documents. "Why?" "You've got German-style number plates on." (Oh yes, despite what you hear, those are illegal too - DVLA website is a wealth of informatino on those as well)

Fit illegal HIDs, LEDs, number-plates and dodgy tints, personally I don't care. If you get stopped by LEOs they won't care what passes on MOT, they will care what is breaking the law (especially on red (1), yellow (2), green (3), brown (4), blue (5), pink (6) and black (7) cars.......they still play snooker). You might get stopped because you're a tail light out, or speeding, or just because they want to know who is driving around at 2 in the morning. You might be lucky and walk away with some "friendly advice", or a VDRS 'request' or just walking home because you've just watched your pride and joy go to the impound yard on the back of a low-loader.

[stevehg]

Nah not having that.

Rubbish IMO.

So can you not read then? You've been given the links to the Vosa doc that clearly state that High Intensity lights need to fitted in a purpose made 'e' marked enclosure and that they have to have a 'self' levelling capability either in light enclosure or self levelling suspension, and have to have headlamp washers.

So what exactly don't you understand? It's clearly stated, you can't retrofit high intensity bulbs into a halogen enclosure. If you fit purpose made HID headlamp unit you need self levelling and washers. All totally clear.

If you want to ignore the law, that's your prerogative, however, don't try and claim you'd be perfectly legal as that's not the case. As well as breaking the law you are putting yourself and other drivers at risk and if you had an accident where it was deemed that your headlamps dazzled an oncoming driving and was a contributing factor to the accident you can expect to be prosecuted and receive a custodial sentence. Especially if there was a fatality, similar instances have resulted in custodial sentences greater than 5 years.

Cheers

Steve

[mdon]

So can you not read then? You've been given the links to the Vosa doc that clearly state that High Intensity lights need to fitted in a purpose made 'e' marked enclosure and that they have to have a 'self' levelling capability either in light enclosure or self levelling suspension, and have to have headlamp washers.

So what exactly don't you understand? It's clearly stated, you can't retrofit high intensity bulbs into a halogen enclosure. If you fit purpose made HID headlamp unit you need self levelling and washers. All totally clear.

If you want to ignore the law, that's your prerogative, however, don't try and claim you'd be perfectly legal as that's not the case. As well as breaking the law you are putting yourself and other drivers at risk and if you had an accident where it was deemed that your headlamps dazzled an oncoming driving and was a contributing factor to the accident you can expect to be prosecuted and receive a custodial sentence. Especially if there was a fatality, similar instances have resulted in custodial sentences greater than 5 years.

Cheers

Steve

Well, I haven't fitted hid lamps to my car but if I wanted to I already have levellers and washers as my car is an elegance model.

I'll make sure I full ad hear to the regulations as listed on legislation.gov

[RainbowFire]

Well, I haven't fitted hid lamps to my car but if I wanted to I already have levellers and washers as my car is an elegance model.

I'll make sure I full ad hear to the regulations as listed on legislation.gov

I have an Elegance too. The levellers are manual, not self. So no, you still wouldn't be adhering to the requirements. Someone did do retro-fit self-levelling but found that the headlight units were different (the levelling mechanism sockets where physically different) as is the wiring between manual and self. (manual is 3 wire, self is 4) It was a lot of b4ll5-ache to do by the sounds of it, and not cheap either (just for the kit, not including the HIDs themselves.)

Again, the reasons why they have to be self-levelling have already been explained.

If you want HIDs, legally, trade the Elegance for an L&K or for one that had them fitted, with all the requisite attachements, at the factory. Then you'll have nothing to worry about.

-or-

You can get your friendly dealer to supply the headlight units, self-leveling kit, and fit them for you, but expect a bill in excess of £2000.

[RainbowFire]

If you want to ignore the law, that's your prerogative, however, don't try and claim you'd be perfectly legal as that's not the case. As well as breaking the law you are putting yourself and other drivers at risk and if you had an accident where it was deemed that your headlamps dazzled an oncoming driving and was a contributing factor to the accident you can expect to be prosecuted and receive a custodial sentence. Especially if there was a fatality, similar instances have resulted in custodial sentences greater than 5 years.

......not to mention that your insurance company will be chasing you for the full cost of the accident as well, as you're insurance won't cover you for illegal mods to the car......

Edited 2 December, 2011 by RainbowFore

[RainbowFire]

LED Headlights.

One company has produced a LED headlight, but only in 7" circular format, so it won't fit any current Skoda's. It is also VERY expensive. Hella are looking at the market but only as an OE offer. The biggest problem is getting the "light" to focus correctly.

I can see the attraction of getting them to work as main-beam, given that it's not a 'surgical/precision' focus (for want of a better phrase) that is used on filaments, and that the whole 'dazzing other road users' would be mute point as you're supposed to switch them off when there's on-comming traffic.

Like a lot of technology applications: this one is still in it's infancy and has a long way to go before it's fully matured. (Filament-based bulbs are still evolving!)

[mdon]

.

If you want HIDs, legally, trade the Elegance for an L&K or for one that had them fitted, with all the requisite attachements, at the factory. Then you'll have nothing to worry about.

-or-

You can get your friendly dealer to supply the headlight units, self-leveling kit, and fit them for you, but expect a bill in excess of £2000.

And your wrong again. Perhaps the new l&k ones have them fitted but the 2003 era with xenons have manual adjustment.

My old 2001 primera had xenons and had manual adjustment plus NO WASHERS!!!

I assume you accept the law is law and they are no exceptions for people? So how can one organisation sanction that the two cars mentioned above are fine to have them with manual adjustment and then say no all other cars have to have auto adjustment, washers, etc etc. answer they can't as once again I'm telling you that fact sheet is only best practice and is not law!

[Llanigraham]

Because new Laws can be introduced that are not retrospective!

My link is NOT a fact sheet, it is part of the details issued to ALL MOT stations recently, so that they are prepared for the changes from 01/01/12.

[Farnz]

And your wrong again. Perhaps the new l&k ones have them fitted but the 2003 era with xenons have manual adjustment.

My old 2001 primera had xenons and had manual adjustment plus NO WASHERS!!!

I assume you accept the law is law and they are no exceptions for people? So how can one organisation sanction that the two cars mentioned above are fine to have them with manual adjustment and then say no all other cars have to have auto adjustment, washers, etc etc. answer they can't as once again I'm telling you that fact sheet is only best practice and is not law!

There are two routes to get approval for a vehicle's lighting:

1) Automatic approval, which exists for all vehicles that comply with the Road Lighting Regulations as in force at the time you drive. For most people, this is the most practical route; no special paperwork needed, just comply with the regulations in full detail, which include auto adjustment and washers; it does mean that you have to keep up with changes to the regulations.

2) Type approval, where you pay to have your new vehicle design inspected by the DVLA or its European equivalents, and convince them that the car meets the intent of the current in-force regulations, even where it doesn't meet the letter - e.g. your car might have manual adjustment that cannot adjust the beam above the point where it causes problems. Once type approved, a vehicle remains road-legal unless modified (where the modifications need automatic approval to be road legal again).

You therefore can't generalise safely from manufacturer fit; it is possible that it was type approved when the regulations were weaker, and thus retains that approval, even though you cannot get it for modern vehicles. It's also possible that it picked up approval based on design features your car doesn't have.

And note that the fact that the RVLR doesn't mention HIDs implies that they are not legal as your main headlights, merely as auxiliary lights. Headlights ("front position lights" in the document) are a required light, and only count as such a light if they meet the requirements in the regulations as amended. You can thus fit front HIDs without the self-levelling and washing feature, as long as you also have an RVLR-compliant front position light.

[RainbowFire]

And your wrong again. Perhaps the new l&k ones have them fitted but the 2003 era with xenons have manual adjustment.

My old 2001 primera had xenons and had manual adjustment plus NO WASHERS!!!

I assume you accept the law is law and they are no exceptions for people? So how can one organisation sanction that the two cars mentioned above are fine to have them with manual adjustment and then say no all other cars have to have auto adjustment, washers, etc etc. answer they can't as once again I'm telling you that fact sheet is only best practice and is not law!

So far the information I have shown has only been wrong as far as you are concerned. As Llanigraham has said "Because new Laws can be introduced that are not retrospective!" So, go back and get one of those cars that you got rid of of you want to have HIDs that conform to a previous version of The Law. The Fact gives you The Lae in plain and simple english, it's dated 2006, three years after 2003 and five after 2001. So The Law in 2006 will not retrospecively appy to vehicles made before that date.

The Law in 1986 didn't apply to my 1985 Renault 9 with its 130w lighting system. If you read through the MOT guide that Llanigraham shared, you'll notice that there are exceptions, based on year, all through it.

As the law stands now, putting HIDs on your vehicle will require headlamp washer system and a self-levelling system (to clarify: this is where the car, not you, levels the headlamps). It will also require them to be 'E' marked and approved (not by you) for road use. This law was introduced in 1986. The Law has all your, rather irrelevant, arguments covered. It evolved to require washers and self-levelling systems because it was discovered that people with HIDs didn't manually adjust them when the car was loaded, thus blinding on-comming traffic. It could easily have banned them, but instead it chose to place legal requirements on them instead.

Whilst you may be under the mis-aprehension that the Fact Sheet is a 'best practice guide', it does clearly state:

"Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal."

Without the required components ('E'marks, self-levellers and washers) being used in concert with each other, IT'S NOT LEGAL

Sp, it's giving you the law that it's best practice to comply with.

Your inability to accept The Law as it applies to road-use astounds me in all honesty. Next you'll be trying to justify cow-horns on the bonnet, machine guns in the grills and knee-cappers on the wheels.

[rockhopper]

I have personally retro fitted xenons to my pervious car.

The car in question was a BMW e39. Hella did a complete kit for about £600 which included new headlights, ballast units, all the wiring and a self levelling sensor. The car was already fitted with headlamp washers, so I didn't need to fit those.

They were the same as the ones Hella produced for BMW but without the BMW logo and the extra £1500 that went with the logo :lol:

As at the time all my driving was at night and the standard halogen lights were pathetic, I almost crashed a few times because I could not see. I was driving about 30,000 miles then.

The xenons were brilliant.

As regards self levelling I have them on my Yeti and you can tell the self levelling works because when you come to a halt the lights do not dip like they do on a halogen equipped car. They stay the same level the whole time.

I have only been flashed in a situation where any car would blind you like going over the brow of a hill etc. most drivers understand that, but not all.

I think that my Yeti ones turn with the steering also help with not blinding on coming vehicles as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fordfan]

The current C & U Regs say that you have to have washers and auto-levelling, as do the current MOT Regs. So there has been some derogation of the Rules from January.

The C&U regulations do, they don't get a mention in the current MOT testers manual

Reading the HID headlamp section in the 2012 manual, it doesn't look as though anything major has changed. If a self levelling and washer system is fitted, it needs to work, if it's not fitted it can't be failed. So for all the aftermarket kits without self levelling and cleaning, they won't need it for the MOT, as long as they are aligned correctly and the beam pattern conforms, they'll pass as before.

So once again, it's another example of being OK for an official road worthiness test and another fail should you get selected for a roadside check.

The only problem that I can forsee is in cold weather when washers freeze and don't work, they'll fail, which won't be of concern until next winter anyway.

The latest special notice summarises alot of the changes to the MOT test, which is HERE.

[Llanigraham]

Fordfan

I will agree with you over the Regualtions from 01/01/12, but currently the washers and levelling are required (see #14 here) however there appears to have been some derogation and from 01/01/12 they will NOT be required. It does appear that confusion reigns supreme at the moment!

And if you want some fun, do you realise that you could be prosecuted for having frozen windscreen washers? It would need a very stroppy copper, but it is possible. Ditto dirty light lenses! (I know someone who was!!)

Winter has arrived; it was -3 when I came to work this morning!

My local MOT place has failed several chav mobiles with aftermarket HID's, but all on indefined beam pattern/excessive glare and incorrect colour in one case. All seem to have had cheap Chinese "bulbs" that were too long for the reflectors.

[mdon]

The Law in 1986 didn't apply to my 1985 Renault 9 with its 130w lighting system. If you read through the MOT guide that Llanigraham shared, you'll notice that there are exceptions, based on year, all through it.

Whilst you may be under the mis-aprehension that the Fact Sheet is a 'best practice guide', it does clearly state:

"Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal."

Without the required components ('E'marks, self-levellers and washers) being used in concert with each other, IT'S NOT LEGAL

Sp, it's giving you the law that it's best practice to comply with.

so at least we agree on one thing, it doesn't apply retrospective so on vehicles manufactured previous to 2012 it doesnt count.

Can you please cut and paste the text in the original form from the RVLR where it states that it needs washers, levellers, E marks etc etc but don't cut and paste it from the fact sheet!

[RainbowFire]

This UK government website tells you about the dates and requirement types for legality in the UK. So, at this point, yes, you can forget levellers and washers, the retro-fit kits in the UK HAVE to conform and be marked in accordance with Section 13, as stipulated by Section 12. If the bulbs aren't legal there's no requirement for the rest, is there?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/4/made

Section 12:

12. Other requirements–

a) Every dipped-beam headlamp shall be so constructed that the direction of the beam of light emitted therefrom can be adjusted whilst the vehicle is stationary.

b.) Every vehicle which–

(i)is fitted with dipped-beam headlamps bearing an approval mark,

(ii)has a maximum speed exceeding 25 mph, and

(iii)is first used on or after 1st April 1991

shall be marked with a clearly legible and indelible marking, as illustrated in Schedule 23, close to either the headlamps or the manufacturer’s plate showing the setting recommended by the manufacturer for the downward inclination of the horizontal part of the cut-off of the beam pattern of the dipped-beam headlamps when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat. That setting shall be a single figure–

(A)between 1 and 1.5 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is not more than 850 mm above the ground, and

(b.)between 1 and 2 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is more than 850 mm above the ground.

©Every dipped-beam headlamp fitted to a vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 in accordance with this part of this Schedule shall be designed for a vehicle which is intended to be driven on the left-hand side of the road.

(d) Where two dipped-beam headlamps are required to be fitted they shall form a matched pair.

13. Definitions–

In this Schedule–“approval mark†means either–

(a) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 5 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 12 or 13 or 14 or 16 or, in the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph, 27 or 28 of Schedule 4 to those Regulations, or

(B.) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 4 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 1A or 1B or 1C or 1E or 5A or 5B or 5C or 5E or 8C or 8D or 8E or 8F or 8G or 8H or 8K or 8L or 20C or 20D or 20E or 20F or 20G or 20H or 20K or 20L or 31A or 31C or, in the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph, 1H or 1I or 5H or 5I of Schedule 2 to those Regulations; and

“British Standard mark†means the specification for sealed beam headlamps published by the British Standards Institution under the reference BS AU 40: Part 4a: 1966 as amended by Amendment AMD 2188 published in December 1976, namely “B.S. AU40â€.

The Fact Sheet you so fondly refer to as 'best practice" refers to ECE Regulation 98........detailed here. (it's in PDF format)

ECE Regulation 98 also refers to ECE Regulation 99.....Detailed here

Regulation 99 also goes into great detail about D1S, D2S, D3S, D4S, D1R, D2R, D3R and D4R discharge bulbs. It even shows the physical make-up of the DxR and DxS bulbs. From this you can see that the regulation and specification for approval differs so much from the Hx series of bulbs that approved DxR's and DxS's physically won't fit in Hx reflectors.

Regulation 99, Page 23, Annex 3 shows a example diagram of an approval mark and clearly states:

"The above approval mark affixed to a gas-discharge light source indicates that the light source has been approved in the United Kingdom (E11) under the approval code 0A1. The first character of the approval code indicates that the approval was granted in accordance with the requirements of Regulation No. 99 in its original form."

........which clearly, in diagramatic form, demonstrates the approval mark that the gas-discharge bulbs for Hx type units won't have.

So, without the need for self-levellers and washers, it would appear the Hx replacement gas-discharge lights cannot be legally retro-fitted as there is no approval system in place for them (note the bit I mentioned about the physical make-up requirement for approval.) The approval system and regulations for Hx and DxR/DxS bulbs are separate and not interchangable, like most regulations.

Also it's the MOT regulations that are changing in 2012, not The Law, you still fail to grasp the difference.

Edited 4 December, 2011 by RainbowFore

[fordfan]

The law and the MOT regulations are two entirely different things. My interpretation of the MOT regulations are if washers and self levelling are fitted, they must work, if the operation of the self levelling function cannot be readily determined then the benefit of the doubt should be given to the vehicle presenter. There will be no facility to fail vehicles where the tester knows that they do not comply with the law, with regard to mandatory fitment of such systems.

This has the potential to penalise only those vehicles which have complied with the law in the first place.

With regard to some standard HID lamps fitted these days, I have tested some Jaguars that when going from dip to main beam, there is an audible click from the light unit, as no other light source is switched on, I can only assume that there is a shutter that masks part of the bulb to give the dipped beam image.

The special notice link that I gave in my last post, says that the follwing items:

Annex B: List of New Testable Components



Headlamp levelling and cleaning devices when fitted for HID or LED headlamps



Main beam ‘tell-tale’



Battery (including batteries for electric or hybrid vehicles)



Electrical wiring and connectors



Trailer electrical socket security and damage



Operation of 13-pin trailer electrical sockets using an approved trailer socket tester



Operation of the steering lock (where fitted) including that malfunction warning is not displayed for an electronic steering lock



Electronic power steering malfunction warning indicating a fault



Electronic parking brake control and malfunction indicator lamp



Electronic Stability Control (ESC) components, including the switch (if fitted) and malfunction warning



Brake fluid warning lamp illuminated or inoperative



Tyre Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS)



SRS components including airbags, seat belt pre-tensioners, seat belt load limiters and SRS malfunction warning lamp



Engine mountings



Speedometer



Indirect vision devices (where they replace obligatory mirrors)

will be on a probationary period, 3 months, before they become failable.

[muddin2002]

just to throw my two pennies in, ive had hids for two years passed every mot and never been pulled over for them, even tho they light up cop cars light christmas trees!

[stevehg]

just to throw my two pennies in, ive had hids for two years passed every mot and never been pulled over for them, even tho they light up cop cars light christmas trees!

Plenty of people drive around with no insurance and car tax and never get pulled over! What does that prove?

The point of this post was legality of retro fitted HID bulbs. As has been proved retrofitting HID bulbs is illegal. There is NO grey area.

If you want to legally retro fit HID's no matter how old the car is you have to source a full HID headlamp enclosure, have some form of self levelling and headlamp washers. It's completely clear.

[mdon]

If you want to legally retro fit HID's no matter how old the car is you have to source a full HID headlamp enclosure, have some form of self levelling and headlamp washers. It's completely clear.

Well it hasn't now has it! All it has proved is that the headlamp unit needs a quality mark, that's all!

[mdon]

This UK government website tells you about the dates and requirement types for legality in the UK. So, at this point, yes, you can forget levellers and washers, the retro-fit kits in the UK HAVE to conform and be marked in accordance with Section 13, as stipulated by Section 12. If the bulbs aren't legal there's no requirement for the rest, is there?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/4/made

Section 12:

12. Other requirements–

a) Every dipped-beam headlamp shall be so constructed that the direction of the beam of light emitted therefrom can be adjusted whilst the vehicle is stationary.

b.) Every vehicle which–

(i)is fitted with dipped-beam headlamps bearing an approval mark,

(ii)has a maximum speed exceeding 25 mph, and

(iii)is first used on or after 1st April 1991

shall be marked with a clearly legible and indelible marking, as illustrated in Schedule 23, close to either the headlamps or the manufacturer’s plate showing the setting recommended by the manufacturer for the downward inclination of the horizontal part of the cut-off of the beam pattern of the dipped-beam headlamps when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat. That setting shall be a single figure–

(A)between 1 and 1.5 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is not more than 850 mm above the ground, and

(b.)between 1 and 2 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is more than 850 mm above the ground.

©Every dipped-beam headlamp fitted to a vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 in accordance with this part of this Schedule shall be designed for a vehicle which is intended to be driven on the left-hand side of the road.

(d) Where two dipped-beam headlamps are required to be fitted they shall form a matched pair.

13. Definitions–

In this Schedule–“approval mark†means either–

(a) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 5 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 12 or 13 or 14 or 16 or, in the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph, 27 or 28 of Schedule 4 to those Regulations, or

(B.) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 4 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 1A or 1B or 1C or 1E or 5A or 5B or 5C or 5E or 8C or 8D or 8E or 8F or 8G or 8H or 8K or 8L or 20C or 20D or 20E or 20F or 20G or 20H or 20K or 20L or 31A or 31C or, in the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph, 1H or 1I or 5H or 5I of Schedule 2 to those Regulations; and

“British Standard mark†means the specification for sealed beam headlamps published by the British Standards Institution under the reference BS AU 40: Part 4a: 1966 as amended by Amendment AMD 2188 published in December 1976, namely “B.S. AU40â€.

The Fact Sheet you so fondly refer to as 'best practice" refers to ECE Regulation 98........detailed here. (it's in PDF format)

ECE Regulation 98 also refers to ECE Regulation 99.....Detailed here

Regulation 99 also goes into great detail about D1S, D2S, D3S, D4S, D1R, D2R, D3R and D4R discharge bulbs. It even shows the physical make-up of the DxR and DxS bulbs. From this you can see that the regulation and specification for approval differs so much from the Hx series of bulbs that approved DxR's and DxS's physically won't fit in Hx reflectors.

Regulation 99, Page 23, Annex 3 shows a example diagram of an approval mark and clearly states:

"The above approval mark affixed to a gas-discharge light source indicates that the light source has been approved in the United Kingdom (E11) under the approval code 0A1. The first character of the approval code indicates that the approval was granted in accordance with the requirements of Regulation No. 99 in its original form."

........which clearly, in diagramatic form, demonstrates the approval mark that the gas-discharge bulbs for Hx type units won't have.

So, without the need for self-levellers and washers, it would appear the Hx replacement gas-discharge lights cannot be legally retro-fitted as there is no approval system in place for them (note the bit I mentioned about the physical make-up requirement for approval.) The approval system and regulations for Hx and DxR/DxS bulbs are separate and not interchangable, like most regulations.

Also it's the MOT regulations that are changing in 2012, not The Law, you still fail to grasp the difference.

Now we're getting somewhere!

Section 12 of the RVLR doesn't apply as it was "which is fitted" which in law terms is the same as saying if it has a quality mark so therefore doesn't need it but ECE regulation is interesting as I haven't read this before. I've just finished nights so I'll do a bit of reading later on and see what I come up with.

I'm enjoying this discussion!

Btw I'm fully aware of the difference of the mot and legal requirements and I haven't compared the two once, all I am doing is arguing the regulations as these are law. The mot doesnt test reversing lamps do you can pass with them broken but a copper can still give you a rectification notice for them if fitted to your vehicle.

[RainbowFire]

Now we're getting somewhere!

Section 12 of the RVLR doesn't apply as it was "which is fitted" which in law terms is the same as saying if it has a quality mark so therefore doesn't need it but ECE regulation is interesting as I haven't read this before. I've just finished nights so I'll do a bit of reading later on and see what I come up with.

I'm enjoying this discussion!

Btw I'm fully aware of the difference of the mot and legal requirements and I haven't compared the two once, all I am doing is arguing the regulations as these are law. The mot doesnt test reversing lamps do you can pass with them broken but a copper can still give you a rectification notice for them if fitted to your vehicle.

I do quote you: "so at least we agree on one thing, it doesn't apply retrospective so on vehicles manufactured previous to 2012 it doesnt count. "

.....as far as I know and understand, it's the MOT regulations that are changing (in whichever direction) as of 1/1/2012. So, if you're only talking about The Law, where does 2012 make an appearance?

And so far, by your reasoning, the requirement for being approved and legal is only applicable to new vehicles and once they're on the road, you're free to fit whatever bulb (and therefore any other accessory) you wish to.