Wind Power to the rescue

[trundlenut]

Ok George.

Fracking is a long long way into the process. Before you can frack you have to go through three regulatory processes, two of them twice, involving central government, local government, numerous government agencies/quangos and almost all with statutory public consultation.

Why should it take any time?

[trundlenut]

Oh and that is just to do the test fracking. After that assuming it works you start again.

[domhnall]

so much for independence being a threat to renewables funding

 

https://archive.is/uMDwO

[cheezemonkhai]

To be fair, who said they're not funding renewables?

 

Have they said no to anything other than wind coming in a bit? Have they said no to wave or tindal (Both of which are IMHO more useful)

 

Perhaps they're just changing their focus. The fact is wind power has had subsidies for many years now and they're pulling in the funding a year early (except for those already with planning).

Let's face it, if wind can't stand on it's own two feet by now, then frankly it's not a viable solution.

 

I've already covered why wind is no good for base or peak loads, so frankly it has little if any place on the national grid (IMHO)

Edited 19 June, 2015 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

Somebody must be thinking otherwise.

 

They are only removing the subsidy from Onshore Turbines. 

The ones that were built in the main in Scotland.

There are 3 major offshore windfarms going ahead off the Scottish coast.

 

and they are not removing the subsidies from the Worlds Biggest Wind Farm just finished off the coast of Wales, the going to be the Worlds Biggest off the Coast of Yorkshire or the Worlds Biggest after that off the coast of Kent.

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-33168638

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-31512089

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-33018029

 

Producing Electricity is easy, storing the energy generated is not, it needs stored using Hydro or the likes,

Used or Exported where it is used like to Norway where it pumps water uphill to make Hydro Power on demand .

*Charge your Electric Vehicles at night, 'Off Peak',  have White Meter Off Peak', 

have Industry with high Power Requirements running when the Energy is readily available at the cheapest.

All this is supposed to be happening now, and has been for decades now.

'Off Peak Electricity', 1/3 of the cost of Daytime Electricity, or it used to be.

 

Using Oil, gas and coal to generate Electricity is just a waste of natural resources.

Using Oil just to burn it to make heat is a waste of natural resources.

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Worth a visit if in the area.

The UK's Largest Onshore Windfarm.

http://whiteleewindfarm.com

Edited 19 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[domhnall]

To be fair, who said they're not funding renewables?

 

Have they said no to anything other than wind coming in a bit? Have they said no to wave or tindal (Both of which are IMHO more useful)

 

Perhaps they're just changing their focus. The fact is wind power has had subsidies for many years now and they're pulling in the funding a year early (except for those already with planning).

Let's face it, if wind can't stand on it's own two feet by now, then frankly it's not a viable solution.

 

I've already covered why wind is no good for base or peak loads, so frankly it has little if any place on the national grid (IMHO)

 

 

onshore wind is mainly located in Scotland, the front page headlines screamed that if Scots voted yes then they would lose the renewables subsidy. We voted no. And now.....ah we're losing the subsidy anyway. Bit like the "vote yes and you'll put your EU membership at risk"  and now........

 

ho hum

[cheezemonkhai]

My mistake, I should have said wind has no place directly on the national grid (IMHO).

 

As you rightly point out, moving water so the energy is stored for when needed at peak times in a reliable fashion is a good use of wind etc.

 

 

 

onshore wind is mainly located in Scotland, the front page headlines screamed that if Scots voted yes then they would lose the renewables subsidy. We voted no. And now.....ah we're losing the subsidy anyway. Bit like the "vote yes and you'll put your EU membership at risk"  and now........

 

ho hum

 

 

It was going in 2017 anyway, so coming in a year early isn't an issue.

Anyone who has planning permission already will still get it

 

Anyone who already has the wind farm, will still get the subsidy for the agreed period.

 

All it's saying is we've got enough on shore wind thanks guys, so if you want to build more, it has to be viable on it's oown from 2016, rather than 2017.

It's not like everyone who already built a wind farm stops getting paid when the subsidy is stopped?

Edited 19 June, 2015 by cheezemonkhai

[domhnall]

My mistake, I should have said wind has no place directly on the national grid (IMHO).

 

As you rightly point out, moving water so the energy is stored for when needed at peak times in a reliable fashion is a good use of wind etc.

 

 

 

 

 

It was going in 2017 anyway, so coming in a year early isn't an issue.

Anyone who has planning permission already will still get it

 

Anyone who already has the wind farm, will still get the subsidy for the agreed period.

 

All it's saying is we've got enough on shore wind thanks guys, so if you want to build more, it has to be viable on it's oown from 2016, rather than 2017.

It's not like everyone who already built a wind farm stops getting paid when the subsidy is stopped?

 

you don't mean that the unholy alliance of Labour, Tory, and Lib Dems was telling fibs???

 

I'm shocked 

[Ootohere]

It does go straight to the National Grid where the Government paid for Interconnectors, it is just they never funded them from where 

the Electricity was being produced in Scotland.

 

So you get the Electricity produced and the Coal and Gas was ready to be fired up in the Dirty Power Stations because the Nuclear ones were closed down for Inspection, and only a few were producing.

 

Truth is there are Diesel Generation Stations all over the UK now in case the current and last Nuclear Stations need to shut down.

Ships are sitting with fuel ready to supply the extra requirements in case Putin shuts down gas or oil or coal into the UK 

because we have a rubbish Navy for an Island Nation because we are near skint but building Air Craft Carriers having sold what we had.

Our Nuclear Powered Submarines are broken down and the reactors are leaking, and we are in a very poor state really,

and Putin knows that.

We are playing a game of kiddology when we sail submarines out of the Clyde and they disappear around the oceans of the world.

We have very few Nuclear Powered or Weapon submarines that are operational.

 

Anyway, we have had the Olympics, we will try for the World Cup, we can build faster trains, 

we can not stop Coastal Erosion, Trains being stopped because of flooding, Nuclear Power Stations never renewed in time,

and no idea what to do with the Nuclear Waste from the ones we are Decommissioning but have never paid for building yet.

 

Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the waves.

Edited 19 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[domhnall]

the "national" grid is national in the sense of England and Wales only. I used to work for Scottish Power, they interconnect to the national grid at Stella and Harker, east and west coast interconnectors. 

 

The UK govt charge for connection based on distance from London, so renewables get penalised because they tend to be further away from London. It also hits power stations like Longannet which is closing (and removing 25% of Scotland's generation capacity) becuase it is so far away from London it gets hit with a £40M per annum charge, if it were in Surrey it would get a subsidy of £4M per annum

 

this is pure regulatory regime distorting the market

[Ootohere]

What a dirty disgusting out of date Power Station Longannet is.

Luckily a new and cleaner one is going online near Peterhead.

 

Near as polluting as those powering Germany and Poland and many parts of Europe.

 

Not only did the UK Government hold back on Interconnectors but on Carbon Capture.

Luckily Scotland has all the Power Generation we need now and for the future.

Or just firing up more often instead of Longannet, because these only run when demand requires and 

Scotland hardly needs them to run anyway since it has pretty well been sorted with Electricity from Renewables.

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-32021098

 

One thing that is hopefully a plus on the Removal of Onshore Subsidies for wind farms is it might slow down 

Baron Nicol Stephen Liberal Democrat Peer and his growing windfarm portfolio.

Edited 19 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[domhnall]

actually if they removed the penalties for being based far away from London then that would help offset the effect of subsidy removal

[Ootohere]

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-33182367

[domhnall]

but it's Scotland, they don't vote tory any more, so a cheap win for the UK government

[cheezemonkhai]

Well a tidal barrage on the thames would be well worth it then

[2SkodaFamily]

When people say that wind farms are an eyesore, WTF do they think when they look at a coal fired power station? A Constable painting? Travel the M62 from Leeds to Hull and there are at least a couple of "traditional" power stations, and they are the most butt-ugly things you could ever wish to see.

 

There are lots of turbines in my area of East Yorkshire, and I very rarely see any that are not rotating.

 

The people who complain that they kill birds - I presume that these people also want to ban cars, and especially jet engines of all kinds. 

 

Modern turbines generate no noise pollution.

 

They may not be the most efficient way of generating electricity, but I'm happy that they play a role in the overall picture of our generating system. I prefer solar, generally, but I think they key to this is a diverse system of renewable electricity generation.

[Ootohere]

[theezenutz]

5 Countries that prove the World doesn't need Fossil Fuels - http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/07/17/5-countries-that-prove-the-world-doesnt-need-fossil-fuels/

[Ootohere]

A bit suspect there on actual facts, like those on Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow & Inverness and the Solar Power Harvesting. (& Dundee is Scotlands sunniest city.)

I wonder where those statistics come from, or does it mean that they could have

Harvested from Solar Energy to Power 100% plus of an average home electricity needs?.

Not that they did!

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30616056

http://wwf.org.uk/about_wwf/press_centre/?unewsid=7429

[theezenutz]

They got their "stats" mainly from the WWF Scotland and Weather Energy I don't think they are trying to mislead rather than just publishing that, that is out there.

 

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/01/06/scotland-saw-massive-year-renewable-energy/

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/11/05/3589525/bumper-month-for-wind-in-scotland/

 

Anyway it's good news and a step in the right direction and it seems to show that renewable energy and it;s development is the way to go.

All that's needed now is a smarter more efficient way of utilizing and distributing the power that is being generated. Less emphasis on profit and greed because the technology now exist so that we can provide our energy needs for the whole Planet and all it's inhabitants.

[Ootohere]

It is good that renewables can produce the Electric / Energy for the Homes in Scotland, (not the Heating)

it is a Scandal that as you go further North where the most Electricity is Generated the Tariff charge is higher, 

and even in the likes of Newcastle Electricity can be more expensive per unit then in areas further away from where the Electricity is generated.

 

But that is Homes, and Industry & Commerce are going to stay being the Dirty Fossil Fuel Burners and they ones using most energy, and Electricity from Renewables is not going to be enough for that requirements, so Fracking and Shale Gas & Oil Extraction is going to be required.  

That is just for the Processing, the Oil & Gas from the North Sea & Imports are still required for the Power Stations for the Cracking Plants.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-31367704

[trundlenut]

IIRC Costa Rica generated pretty all of their electricity from diesel so more renewables was a no brainer. That and the fact the geology is right for geothermal so perfect for electricity generation. Though the heat is not so much use.

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[fabdavrav]

I used to know people who do the maintenance on wind farms, ask them about the amount of dead birds, loads. Also because they can't "feather" the blades they have to lock them in a "Y" in high winds. Even the WWF stated in a report that Scotland has to  many windfarms!

 

Personally people have been missing out on the biggest & easiest way to cover loads of the country in eco electrical generating structures!

 

Roof all the warehouse, supermarkets, storage yards etc in solar power!

 

Go look at Google maps satellite for the Grantown area, or anywhere that has bonded warehouses, look at the acreage of roof doing sod all! Government subsidies to strengthen the roof & solar panel it, or better still remove roof & make the solar panels the "roof".

 

Same with all the supermarkets, all the huge distribution centres etc. No need to use more land!!

[trundlenut]

I used to know people who do the maintenance on wind farms, ask them about the amount of dead birds, loads. Also because they can't "feather" the blades they have to lock them in a "Y" in high winds. Even the WWF stated in a report that Scotland has to many windfarms!

Personally people have been missing out on the biggest & easiest way to cover loads of the country in eco electrical generating structures!

Roof all the warehouse, supermarkets, storage yards etc in solar power!

Go look at Google maps satellite for the Grantown area, or anywhere that has bonded warehouses, look at the acreage of roof doing sod all! Government subsidies to strengthen the roof & solar panel it, or better still remove roof & make the solar panels the "roof".

Same with all the supermarkets, all the huge distribution centres etc. No need to use more land!!

A lot of supermarkets do have PV panels. Sainsbury were fitting them to all new stores and retrofitting them to existing stores. They have also gone for biomass. Again not very obvious, just a container with a silver chimney tucked away round the back of the store.

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[theezenutz]

Yep I completely agree every single rooftop is a potential producer of Energy. Every new house built should come pre-fitted with solar panels, every home should be in a position that they can fit solar panels.

 

If every home could at the very least generate solar power the burden on the national grid would be massively reduced but it should be generated for free and used for free that way everybody benefits, well apart from the big energy suppliers, but oh well at least they could soothe themselves to sleep at night by listening to me play the Worlds smallest Violin.

 

More investment in renewable energy with the intention of ordinary people reaping the benefits.