I havn't bought my Mk1 Octy yet, it was due in February but i've not stopped looking at alternatives just to be sure i'm buying the right car. I've been researching for months and a few cars crop up every now and again that make me wonder.

I've recently been spotting 2001-2002 BMW 330D Tourings for £4k ish with 100k or so miles on the clock. I know for that kind of money i can have my pick of some very nice low milage VRS's but then the BMW has more power (204bhp)/306ft/lbs, accelerate as quick as the Octy (7.6) are better on fuel (41+ combined) and also max out of 147mph, not that i'll ever see that kind of speed.

I've also seen remapped 330d's pushing out 240bhp+ and obscene torque figures with little or no more modifications.

One major reason i wanted the octy was boot space, even the touring doesn't match it but it's still big enough for my family needs.

Am i missing something?

100k is a lot of miles, but for a diesel bmw with fsh? I have no idea about servicing costs but i'm guessing more than the Octy. I've also not had an insurence quote.

Can anyone shed some light on why the 330D isn't such a good idea apart from sounding like a tractor?

Edited 10 December, 201114 yr by Callum82

At that age it'll be the 5 speed and putting out 170hp not the 204hp of the later (2003/2004) 6 speed cars.

Lot's of issues with front suspension bushes wearing out needing replacement wishbones at about £300 a side.

330d can eat brake disks tyres can be expensive, useless in the snow.

Swirl flap issues meant that the engine can ingest part of the inlet manifold = new engine. You can remove and blank off the swirl flaps for not a lot of money.

I drove a 2004 204hp 6 speed 330d 80k fully loaded. Felt fine not aged at all. Didn't feel that fast, the TFSI felt a lot faster. It had had wishbones replaced at 60k and the dash was showing that it needed something done. Dealer still wanted £9k and was offering £7.5 for the VRS for it which I thought was rubbish (had been offered 9k for it just the day before)but he did shift it quite quickly even in depths of last winter.

It's rwd so handling is better than the Octy.

IMHO good cars but not without expensive issues and not necessarily worth the premium they demand.

At that age it'll be the 5 speed and putting out 170hp not the 204hp of the later (2003/2004) 6 speed cars.

Lot's of issues with front suspension bushes wearing out needing replacement wishbones at about £300 a side.

330d can eat brake disks tyres can be expensive, useless in the snow.

Swirl flap issues meant that the engine can ingest part of the inlet manifold = new engine. You can remove and blank off the swirl flaps for not a lot of money.

I drove a 2004 204hp 6 speed 330d 80k fully loaded. Felt fine not aged at all. Didn't feel that fast, the TFSI felt a lot faster. It had had wishbones replaced at 60k and the dash was showing that it needed something done. Dealer still wanted £9k and was offering £7.5 for the VRS for it which I thought was rubbish (had been offered 9k for it just the day before)but he did shift it quite quickly even in depths of last winter.

It's rwd so handling is better than the Octy.

IMHO good cars but not without expensive issues and not necessarily worth the premium they demand.

Thanks for the reply.

I got the stats from auto traders vehicle summary tab for a 2001 330D Sport touring which is here but i know auto traders stats are a bit hit or miss so thanks for clearing that up.

It was mainly the fuel consumption combined with power figures that got me interested with the 330D but then again i cannot afford "expensive issues" at this point in time. I need something fun, solid and trouble free for the foreseeable which takes me back to the Mk1 VRS.

I've also looked into TDI quattros', Merc C200K', Merc C270D', BMW 530D' and I’m still favouring the VRS as insurance is much cheaper, mileage is much lower and I can pick up 04 and 05 cars for under 4k.

Anything else to consider before my girlfriend rips her hair out due to hours and hours of me sat looking at auto trader, ebay and pistonheads?

Edited 9 December, 201114 yr by Callum82

It was mainly the fuel consumption combined with power figures that got me interested with the 330D but then again i cannot afford "expensive issues" at this point in time. I need something fun, solid and trouble free for the foreseeable which takes me back to the Mk1 VRS.

I think that is the main point. In a straight duel between the two, I`d have the 330d, if we were talking MK2 Octy then it might be a bit closer, as a car against the MK1 I`d pick the BM.

However, on you budget, its the choice of the cheapest, high mile 330d`s which while i`v got no doubts over reliability, is inevitably going to cost more to keep on the road over a pampered low mileage well looked after Octavia vrs, the "pick of the bunch" So If you want a solid reliable car i`d go for the vRS

Anything else to consider before my girlfriend rips her hair out due to hours and hours of me sat looking at auto trader, ebay and pistonheads?

Leon Cupra R (or TDI).

The R is 225bhp, and the TDi the PD150.

Same chassis etc as the Octavia, prettier, and in R form, better spec'd.

Leon Cupra R (or TDI).

The R is 225bhp, and the TDi the PD150.

Same chassis etc as the Octavia, prettier, and in R form, better spec'd.

Good shout

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201148431812421/sort/priceasc/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/model/leon/make/seat/keywords/cupra_r/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/ws112yt?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201144425342469/sort/priceasc/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/model/leon/make/seat/keywords/cupra_r/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/ws112yt?logcode=p

Soemthing to bare in mind...

Quattro Audi (even a 1.9tdi) is going to get you something like 42mpg (http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/)

You can average 35mpg from a TFSI Octy II VRS without trying too hard. Right now Super unleaded is 4p a litre cheaper than diesel, 95RON is 8-10p/l cheaper.

Diesels are more expensive to buy and arguably less reliable.

£4k is only going to get you a pretty roapy high mileage premium saloon. I spent a few months this summer looking in the 6k price range. Just because they've got the badge on the front doesn't mean they've been looked after. The majority of the cars I looked at were quite frankly rough. Minters get marked up lots.

Unless you're going to be doing a lot of miles to make back the purchase difference and then some you'll be better off in something like a VRS (I or II). Or unless you have money to set aside for maintenance.

Check out petrol beemer prices. Bigger one are not wanted right now and might be cheaper but if registered before 23/03/2006 tax is capped at £260.

Leon Cupra R (or TDI).

The R is 225bhp, and the TDi the PD150.

Same chassis etc as the Octavia, prettier, and in R form, better spec'd.

Boot space is one of biggest factors as i have 2 kids and a missus who doesn't exactly travel lightly!

Soemthing to bare in mind...

Quattro Audi (even a 1.9tdi) is going to get you something like 42mpg (http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/)

You can average 35mpg from a TFSI Octy II VRS without trying too hard. Right now Super unleaded is 4p a litre cheaper than diesel, 95RON is 8-10p/l cheaper.

Diesels are more expensive to buy and arguably less reliable.

£4k is only going to get you a pretty roapy high mileage premium saloon. I spent a few months this summer looking in the 6k price range. Just because they've got the badge on the front doesn't mean they've been looked after. The majority of the cars I looked at were quite frankly rough. Minters get marked up lots.

Unless you're going to be doing a lot of miles to make back the purchase difference and then some you'll be better off in something like a VRS (I or II). Or unless you have money to set aside for maintenance.

Check out petrol beemer prices. Bigger one are not wanted right now and might be cheaper but if registered before 23/03/2006 tax is capped at £260.

Good points especially the cost of diesel! I'll steer clear on cheap premiums and find a vrs in Feb.

Thanks

I ran a 2002 320d from 60,000 to 150,000 miles and it was a very expensive three years.

I had the swirl flap problem which cost me a new engine, I also had the front suspension issues together with lots of other minor niggles including window regulators and other electrical gremlins.

My biggest issue was the cost of parts and servicing, I avoided main dealers where possible and found a local indy but even then the bills were regular. Repairs and servicing alone cost me an average of £125/month over the 36 months and this excludes the £3K it cost me to cover the difference betweens BMW's contribution and the total bill for a new engine.

It's worth noting though the swirl flaps can be removed though (99% sure they can), which will be one less thing to worry about/fork out for.

If i wasn't put off already, i am now.

Don't be put off, just be aware that running a BMW will likely be more expensive than a Skoda in terms of spare parts.

I insisted on genuine BMW parts bought through my local indy at trade, even then they were eye watering.

Perhaps I got a duff one, it was a lovely car but it was an expensive one. I'd hope that at the age and mileage you are looking at most of the gremlins and niggles will have been fixed...

Don't be put off, just be aware that running a BMW will likely be more expensive than a Skoda in terms of spare parts.

I insisted on genuine BMW parts bought through my local indy at trade, even then they were eye watering.

Perhaps I got a duff one, it was a lovely car but it was an expensive one. I'd hope that at the age and mileage you are looking at most of the gremlins and niggles will have been fixed...

As a family we cannot afford expensive fixes so for me it's just not worth the risk that's why I've been put off. There's no guarantee i won't pick up a lemon. An Octavia with lower mileage seems the more sensible option. Even if the Octavia does go wrong at least it's not going to cost me mega money.

I have seen a few MK1 vRS's with fsh, fully loaded with with less than 60k miles for under £4,000 and the more i think about it the more it makes sense to buy one. Mpg isn't even an issue i don't know why i got caught up in it. We cover about 5000 miles a year, if that!

Edited 10 December, 201114 yr by Callum82

Are you not missing an obvious choice , VRS TDI + remap , similar power outputs ,better performance , better economy and overall cheaper to run . plus you also get a bit of exclusivity , beemers are 2 a penny .

Are you not missing an obvious choice , VRS TDI + remap , similar power outputs ,better performance , better economy and overall cheaper to run . plus you also get a bit of exclusivity , beemers are 2 a penny .

:wonder: They only made a MK2 though

Are you not missing an obvious choice , VRS TDI + remap , similar power outputs ,better performance , better economy and overall cheaper to run . plus you also get a bit of exclusivity , beemers are 2 a penny .

Over budget unfortunately, 4k is absolute max. There are a few around 4500 but I'd be scraping the barrel. I'd prefer a good Mk1 over a tired Mk2.

Edited 10 December, 201114 yr by Callum82

Thanks for the reply.

I got the stats from auto traders vehicle summary tab for a 2001 330D Sport touring which is here but i know auto traders stats are a bit hit or miss so thanks for clearing that up.

It was mainly the fuel consumption combined with power figures that got me interested with the 330D but then again i cannot afford "expensive issues" at this point in time. I need something fun, solid and trouble free for the foreseeable which takes me back to the Mk1 VRS.

I've also looked into TDI quattros', Merc C200K', Merc C270D', BMW 530D' and I’m still favouring the VRS as insurance is much cheaper, mileage is much lower and I can pick up 04 and 05 cars for under 4k.

Anything else to consider before my girlfriend rips her hair out due to hours and hours of me sat looking at auto trader, ebay and pistonheads?

To be fair, most of the 330d's that age have had the swirl flap issue resolved & most have had replacement turbo's aswell as they wernt the best either.

As with any car all bushes wear with age, its not an issue specific to BMW.

As for parts, well aftermarket parts are plenty & not overly expensive.

But as has already been mentioned, not good in the snow!!

Just to throw something else in there i've noticed a good few MK2 TDI 140 DSG Elegance, 60-70k miles 2006/7 for Mk1 vRS money £4000. I had a quick look at power figures after a decent remap any it seems 180bhp is normal and no doubt big torque figures. That's standard Mk1 vRS power with better fuel economy.

With similar numbers to the Mk1 vRS can i expect similar linear performance?

Just to throw something else in there i've noticed a good few MK2 TDI 140 DSG Elegance, 60-70k miles 2006/7 for Mk1 vRS money £4000. I had a quick look at power figures after a decent remap any it seems 180bhp is normal and no doubt big torque figures. That's standard Mk1 vRS power with better fuel economy.

With similar numbers to the Mk1 vRS can i expect similar linear performance?

I would seriously look at that then. The diesel is a lot more reliable than the petrol.

My boss is selling an immaculate 330d estate- 2003 reg, 204bhp engine, auto box. He reckons he gets 48mpg cruising at 80.

The gearboxes have a habit of lunching themselves (he had his rebuilt properly) and the tax is £260!

Apart from that, lovely car. Fast, well made, handle beautifully, look great.

DSG box car for 4k seems risky... a gearbox problem with those has the potential to turn the car to scrap.

I would rather an early 330d than a dsg Octy.

shoot me for saying this but whats wrong with a 2.0tdci mondeo with 130bhp remapped up to 160bhp???

or the rarer 2.2tdci 155bhp, again remap to 170bhp upwards at a guess if not 180bhp

cheap parts, and whilst the engines themselves aren't as good as the BMW's they have ALOT to offer

Okay so the bloke can't use a camera, but on paper a car like that looks very good

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201149434030212/sort/priceasc/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/transmission/manual/price-to/4000/price-from/3000/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/fuel-type/diesel/maximum-age/up_to_5_years_old/model/mondeo/make/ford/postcode/tn401ns/page/1/radius/1500?logcode=p

or this remapped to 160bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201141420711520/sort/priceasc/usedcars/price-to/4000/maximum-age/up_to_4_years_old/transmission/manual/price-from/3000/fuel-type/diesel/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/model/mondeo/make/ford/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/tn401ns?logcode=p

Edited 12 December, 201114 yr by Sonner

the 155bhp is 0-60 in 8.7secs.

i can't see why a remapped mondeo wouldn't go down to 7.5secs with an extra 30bhp and bigger toruqe swell

There was a discussion recently about the ST 2.2tdi and how it liked new injectors often. Wasn't that long ago.

For £4k I'd probably look at an older Golf 1.9tdi 130 or a Focus. Not that pretty but a good drive.

don't forget Aspman that the OP is after a large/ish family car and wants something with a bit of GO.

if he's considering a vRS or a 330d he is unlikely to accept a 130bhp Golf or 115bhp focus.

I think my suggestion of a 130bhp mondeo probably wasn't fitting in with the OP's needs either.

although the top spec Titanium X 155bhp looks good.

all cars have there problems. just good to pick a car that the problem can be fixed by removal or the use of secondhand parts.

don't forget Aspman that the OP is after a large/ish family car and wants something with a bit of GO.

if he's considering a vRS or a 330d he is unlikely to accept a 130bhp Golf or 115bhp focus.

I think my suggestion of a 130bhp mondeo probably wasn't fitting in with the OP's needs either.

although the top spec Titanium X 155bhp looks good.

all cars have there problems. just good to pick a car that the problem can be fixed by removal or the use of secondhand parts.

Yeah the Golf and Focus are too small and neither is my cup of tea.

I like the spec on the Mondeo's but i know nothing about their reliability and i need something rock solid which is why i wanted the vRS origianlly. Since hearing the Octavia diesel's are even more reliable and i can get 180bhp from a remapped Mk2 for the same money as a Mk1 vRS it makes more sense. Though i'm actually stuggling to find them at the moment. I found this Mk2 TDI Sport 140 but it's slightly out of budget. I'm not looking to buy until February so no doubt more will pop up.

I still really like the vRS and i honestly prefere the Mk1 shape over the Mk2.

It boils down to buying with my head - TDI Mk2 or heart - Mk1 vRS.

I'll definately look into the Mondeo too.