Should have a water meth kit ordered for the new year, trying to decide whether to go AEM or Devils Own eventially ending with my car running a hybrid turbo which leads me onto software.

Current plans involve me heading to Shark Performance in the new year for my car to be custom tuned to take account of the new cooling mods i have fitted and the tbe ill have fitted in Jan. Theres quite alot of potential in the engine now the heat issues have gone away. The only issue being the map isn't adjustable/switchable once installed so water meth injection can only be used as a bolt on mod and the map not tuned for it because if i tune for it the wmi needs to operate all the time which isn't an route I want to go down. The shame is that if the ecu wasn't encrypted I could use the shark sts system to switch maps but it won't work on encrypted ecu's, then I wouldn't be looking else where.

So the only other options for switchable maps are from either APR or REVO which would allow me to have multiple maps on hand for use with and without WMI.

APR are the safer option as they tend to err on the cautious side of tuning, however I've only found 1 guy, luckily local to me with an APR stage 2 which goes very well indeed, but he has had a couple mis fire issues. This would allow me to switch to a higher octane map with the cruise stalk when using meth. Another positive is they are currently working towards a hybrid upgrade so its a future proofed tune. Truth be told when I originally looked for a remap the toss up was between APR and Shark, but Shark made an offer that couldn't be refused.

REVO, as you might have guessed have never been my favourite tuner, as I sometimes think can push it to far to attain figures. Plus a fair few mates have had issues a plenty with them on other cars incl the 1.4tsi. I've seen alot of issues with REVO tuned tfsi engines, however the majority of time could easily be attributed to guys fiddling with their settings with the SPS switches after the map has been installed. At leadt with the 1.4tsi your limited to changing settings to preset maps B or C which is essentially just a higher octane map ideal for WMI usage.

One positive for REVO I think is that they have easily tuned the largest amount of vehicles for the 1.4TSI hence, as a result have experienced the highest amount of issues since they have the majority, so they know their way around this engine better than pretty much all the other tuners and their latest versions obviously reflect that.

So I'm in a predicament

Do I stay with Shark and have them custom map it and have the water meth as a pure bolt on mod only, but require further custom mapping when I go hybrid at a later date. They have a very good map but not future proofed for my planned modifications. I have good history with Shark and customer and aftersales support are exemplary.

Or go with APR who will have a very safe option but not make as much as revo, but can support future mods as they are already developing hybrid options, but have a scarce UK dealer network.

Or go REVO who have the most experience with this engine, lots of dealerships, of which some are skoda retailers so warranty is helped along, but could push it to far potentially causing in issue.

I don't necessarily expect to make much more power with the other options either as I know Shark never even came close to maxing mine out because I never had all the supporting mods at the time so I think thuer custom map would match the others no issues.

Choices choices.

Stick with Shark and be the puppet for the development of maps and parts?

I'm trying to figure out if you are asking a question, making a statement, or testing the water to see if someone might bite and offer a freebie

He's actually trying to ask a question, got a discussion running at vagoc aswell about this .

I'd never heard of this mod before, Devil's Own site makes interesting reading.

Sounds like you are going down a novelish path and as you say are looking at custom maps to take account of the system. As such I would be drawn to Shark, who you say you have a good relationship with and are very happy with their service. Whoever you go to will it seem be customising just for your car so the question is who do you trust and feel will give you most time and attention?

Or I could have it all wrong and this is a well trodden path

I'm trying to figure out if you are asking a question, making a statement, or testing the water to see if someone might bite and offer a freebie

Its a question, not a statement. I'm happy with my map and have been happy with sharks work ever since my first map on my Octavia.

But for my plans Shark might not be the best option. I've even spoke to Ben @ Shark about me looking at changing to the likes of APR so i can have the switchability. Believe it or not APR were the likely initial choice for the original map, however Shark made me an offer i couldn't refuse.

Not a chance of getting a freebie anyway, REVO and APR have nothing to prove and have lots of cars on the market already, so no reason to start offering freebies. Im after a better option to suit my plans of WMI and hybrid turbo, and that is all. The way i see it, i got the Shark Map for free so i haven't lost out by paying for a map change. Its just like starting over.

Shark really weren't keen on a hybrid option on this engine due to the limitations they believe are imposed by the fueling system on this engine, which is their prerogative as its their name on the line. I on the other hand am keen on it, and know its possible as there are lots of hybrid 1.4TSIs on the forums running hybrids at the moment with REVO keen to develop one and and APR already in the development phase.

And of course i am after an adjustable system where i can switch to a higher octane tune for when im running water meth on track or 1/4 mile.

Sounds like you are going down a novelish path and as you say are looking at custom maps to take account of the system. As such I would be drawn to Shark, who you say you have a good relationship with and are very happy with their service. Whoever you go to will it seem be customising just for your car so the question is who do you trust and feel will give you most time and attention?

Or I could have it all wrong and this is a well trodden path

The hybrid and WMI and new territory for the 1.4TSI so i'm keen to have it done well which will take a fair amount of time mapping. REVO and APR both have their own cars with a 1.4TSI so can use their own cars for testing with mine only receiving the finished product which is a bonus for me. Also their tools for bypassing the encrypted ECUs work in such a way that once its been initially opened, and the code bypassed, they can then map via the OBDII port which is much better and faster for making changes when mapping as apose to removing the ecu each time. Also useful for map updates and upgrades.

REVO have had the most experience on this engine in the UK by a huge margin now, consequently due to the volume they have had the largest amount of issues including their own Cupra which blew a piston, so they know this engine and its flaws better than most. Since then they have released newer maps which sort out the misfire and borewashing issues, and the issues appear to have been solved. The same deal with APR, who have their own Polo GTI which is used extensively on the race track so is a proven source of a tune working well and safely.

A genuine question is all it is, am im thinking of changing to match my circumstances.

Since, as you say, it is new territory, I can't imagine anyone in the open forum will have an answer

Surely the best route is to go direct to the tuners and decide for yourself

Any suggestions here are likely to be based on members' personal preferences for tuners, and not ones whose car has anywhere near the mods yours has got

It all helps. Not much info here, but on vagoc there's a much better response

I remember a past thread of somebody who was after a water meth kit but something came up about compatibility with the 1.4tSI engines... have a search first :no:

Water meth is 100% compatible with the 1.4TSI no issues at all.

The thread your talking of wasn't a vRS but a non charged fabia sport which wasnt worth the effort and cost as gains would be negligable.

Can't remember ghis username but it was a black Fabia looks pretty smart, there's a blog on here somewhere.

Shark really weren't keen on a hybrid option on this engine due to the limitations they believe are imposed by the fueling system on this engine, which is their prerogative as its their name on the line. I on the other hand am keen on it, and know its possible as

I said we'd do anything you like, but carry a bucket with you to put all the bits in when it goes bang.

Reliability or power?

I'd take a pinch of both and be happy with what you've got but that's me

I said we'd do anything you like, but carry a bucket with you to put all the bits in when it goes bang.

That's confidence.....

As said to you before ben, the main reason for wanting to change is the ability to switch maps at my own leisure, and upgrade the map at a later date via OBD which is obviously much better than removing the ecu, opening up and rebooting it each time you need to make an adjustment during a mapping session

The way I see it, APR probably have the safest reliability on the market for all the cars, so if they think its capable of taking a hybrid, id be willing to accept that no worries.

Interesting stuff. Going a bit far than I would but interested to see how it goes. Just remember "Cheap and fast ain't reliable, reliable and cheap ain't fast and fast and reliable ain't cheap"

Reliability or power?

I'd take a pinch of both and be happy with what you've got but that's me

Ill be after both.

But bear in mid just because a remap doesn't make as much power as others, its not necessarily safer.

To requote martins post which is exactly the truth

"Cheap and fast ain't reliable, reliable and cheap ain't fast and fast and reliable ain't cheap"

Im happy to pay out, to get what i want.

Interesting stuff. Going a bit far than I would but interested to see how it goes. Just remember "Cheap and fast ain't reliable, reliable and cheap ain't fast and fast and reliable ain't cheap"

I might not end up going to a hybrid. For example hurdys car is making substantially more power than mine with not much more bolted to it, With water methanol he'll be running 250hp with no issues on his higher octane map.

250hp in one of these would be immense, and probably right at the sweetspot of power and weight where more power will just cause more issues with tractability as well as start to cost alot more. 250hpin mine would be about 220-225hp/ton which is rapido.

I might not end up going to a hybrid. For example hurdys car is making substantially more power than mine with not much more bolted to it, With water methanol he'll be running 250hp with no issues on his higher octane map

Why not do exactly the same as he's done?

Or better still, let him run it for a while before you take the plunge, just to see if anything breaks

My plan exactly he uses his car very very hard as well

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Or better still, let him run it for a while before you take the plunge, just to see if anything breaks

Good plan, let someone else be the expensive guinea pig!

That's confidence.....

Joking...

The way I see it, APR probably have the safest reliability on the market for all the cars, so if they think its capable of taking a hybrid, id be willing to accept that no worries.

Would they be prepared to put their money where their mouth is and offer a stonewall guarantee on that?

".....probably have the safest reliability record....." doesn't sound overly convincing to me

havent APR also got the first Big turbo kit for the 1.4 TFSi on their Polo as well?

Not the first one, also theirs is a hybrid version of the OEM turboand not a larger one . Theres actually a fair few around mainland europe with hybrids now, with one guy whos gone balls out and fitted a massive turbo amongst £££'s of other stuff with an aim for 500hp from a little 1.4.

The hybrids are fetching between 260-300hp with varying levels of changes done to the turbo from minor changes such as fitting a K04-001 1.8T compressor wheel to fully machined jobs

Would they be prepared to put their money where their mouth is and offer a stonewall guarantee on that?

".....probably have the safest reliability record....." doesn't sound overly convincing to me

Luckily im not trying to convince you . Thats based on my searches across the internet for APR issues. Very rarely do you see guys with issues running APR software, and their big turbo conversions are practically bomb proof. hwreas pretty much all the other tuners are easy to dig up horror stories by the dozen.

In that case you seem to have answered your own question

Putting myself in your shoes...

Would I choose a company that I don't trust not to mess up my engine? A company that I know personally have history of screwing up engines? Hell no.

Would I go with a company that isn't cut out to match my future plans? Nope.

Would I choose a company that has a very good track record of making very reliable engines AND is future-proofed? Yes. Absolutely.

I know nothing of these three companies, but based on what you've said it's an easy decision for me.

APR.

Running slightly less power for a long time is infinitely better (and cheaper!!) than running more power for very little time... IMO

Edited 23 December, 201114 yr by thejames