My fabia 1.9 PD is due for it's annual service and I'm sure my local Skoda dealer is going to recommend a cam belt change, as the car will be 4 years old in March. The car has only done 32,000 miles though and I'm loathe to spend £400-odd quid for a new cam belt at this mileage. Would I be a fool to leave the cam belt change until the car has done around 40k? Also, could anyone recommend a good independent garage for VAG cars in the Oxford area?

1327266028[/url]' post='2656438']

My fabia 1.9 PD is due for it's annual service and I'm sure my local Skoda dealer is going to recommend a cam belt change, as the car will be 4 years old in March. The car has only done 32,000 miles though and I'm loathe to spend £400-odd quid for a new cam belt at this mileage. Would I be a fool to leave the cam belt change until the car has done around 40k? Also, could anyone recommend a good independent garage for VAG cars in the Oxford area?

I'm going to be in a worst situation I do less than 5k a year so I'm going to be sub 20 k for mine in 4 years

You'll be wishing you'd spent £400 when it breaks and you need £3k+ for a new engine.

I'm going to be in a worst situation I do less than 5k a year so I'm going to be sub 20 k for mine in 4 years

Do you intend to get the cam belt replaced at 4 years seboni? I appreciate it's better to be safe than sorry but replacing the belt at 20-30k seems overcautious to me, given that the current recommendation is replacement at 40k (and used to be 60k for 1.9 Tdi). I appreciate that cam belt wear is influenced by age as well as mileage but most of my car's 32k has been long journey stuff and I'd be very surprised if it was in a condition requiring replacement after 30,000 miles. The Ford diesels I used to own only needed it at 80-100 k!

The reason for an age aswell as milage limit is that while milage will ware the belt in the traditional way, age will also see the belt lifed through weathering it will become brittler and more liable to breaking or slipping. All exposed rubber materials degrade over time due to being in contact with the air, water (moisture) etc. It's a simple cost benifit question do you pay the cost of the belt change and have an engine which is good for another 4 years or save the cost and risk righting off the engine.

Is it worth changing the water pump at this time also?

1327304393[/url]' post='2656832']

Is it worth changing the water pump at this time also?

Yes that's been my recommendation

Do you intend to get the cam belt replaced at 4 years seboni? I appreciate it's better to be safe than sorry but replacing the belt at 20-30k seems overcautious to me, given that the current recommendation is replacement at 40k (and used to be 60k for 1.9 Tdi). I appreciate that cam belt wear is influenced by age as well as mileage but most of my car's 32k has been long journey stuff and I'd be very surprised if it was in a condition requiring replacement after 30,000 miles. The Ford diesels I used to own only needed it at 80-100 k!

Perhaps talk to your dealer about this. But if the car is nearly 4 years old with 32k on it, then it should really be done at your next service, but if you go over by just a couple of thousand miles it should be fine. Just make sure any warranty isn't voided. I would recommend having the belt changed and have the water pump and tensioner changed. The pump add only about £15 to the cost if I remember correctly and the tensioner is a must. It's usually tensioner or water pump seal weep that causes cam belt breakage and not actual wear. The Fords you had all now have their cam belts changed much earlier than 80-100k miles. I think most Fords are 60k now. You PD TDI needs the belt changing slightly earlier than a CR engine as the belt powers the injector pumps and has considerably more strain and wear put upon it during it's life. That's why you should have it done always at the recommended intervals.

Seb, you should talk to your dealer about your situation at the time since the belt on CR engines has a much easier life and you could maybe let it go another year without detriment.

Edited 23 January, 201214 yr by Estate Man

Thanks for all your replies - you've nearly convinced me that it needs doing now rather than in 1 year's time, when the mileage will be around 40k.

The thing that's still niggling me though is that the 4-yr/40,000 mile recommendation for PD engines seems to be UK-specific and possibly some sort of 'scheme' designed to increase dealer profits on just-out-of-warranty cars (where some owners are considering taking their cars to independents for servicing)! I've been reading a few threads on this subject, including the one below. In this thread, a respected diesel engineer called '659' (who has written a number of authorative and interesting posts on VAG diesel engines) is of the opinion that 40k or 4 years is unnecessarily early for PD engines and goes as far as to say it's a dealer 'scam'!

My link

Perhaps I shouldn't allow my judgement to be clouded by stuff like this but I really don't want to spend a good chunk of money on a job that doesn't need doing at this stage.

MW

Edited 23 January, 201214 yr by MarginWalker

my 08 1.9pd has done 43k and no cam belt has been replaced as of yet.Its 4yr service is due in May i bought car recently from Skoda so i would be surprised if they had sold a car with a Skoda warranty if the cam belt was overdue?

I was under the impression its 4yrs or 60k which ever comes sooner,40k seems ridiculous that's less than 3yrs driving :S

1327341193[/url]' post='2657541']

my 08 1.9pd has done 43k and no cam belt has been replaced as of yet.Its 4yr service is due in May i bought car recently from Skoda so i would be surprised if they had sold a car with a Skoda warranty if the cam belt was overdue?

I was under the impression its 4yrs or 60k which ever comes sooner,40k seems ridiculous that's less than 3yrs driving :S

I have 2 fabias, the 08 will be due in may its done 50 k so I will prob do it then but not at dealers m8 will do it 4 me

As been mentioned above, get it done - it saves the hassle and expense of an engine re-build no matter what the mileage. Had my previous vRS done when it had 35k miles in 4 years so I know the pain you're in!

My Passat B6 TDI was the same advice at 4 years was to change even though the manual and advice in the Fatherland was longer.

Very suspicious that the change happened when flat rate prices were introduced for older cars. Supsect it is a way of getting increased service business for dealers but as the guys say probably worth changing as you will have no position if it fails. For me it justified trading the car in whcih again could be another motivation, stick people with extended warranty and cambelt costs in year four and they are more likely to get a newer one.

Also think how long you are intending to keep the car, doing a year early is not really a massive addition in cost if you intend to keep it for a few more years, you may as well get the peace of mind rather than the next owner.

My Passat B6 TDI was the same advice at 4 years was to change even though the manual and advice in the Fatherland was longer.

Very suspicious that the change happened when flat rate prices were introduced for older cars. Supsect it is a way of getting increased service business for dealers but as the guys say probably worth changing as you will have no position if it fails. For me it justified trading the car in whcih again could be another motivation, stick people with extended warranty and cambelt costs in year four and they are more likely to get a newer one.

Also think how long you are intending to keep the car, doing a year early is not really a massive addition in cost if you intend to keep it for a few more years, you may as well get the peace of mind rather than the next owner.

I'm probably going to keep the car long-term as it's been brilliant so far and has everything I need spec-wise. Also, a new diesel fabia would come with a CR diesel engine and (having driven a 1.6 CR for a weekend) I prefer the older (albeit less refined) PD for it's low end grunt. Like you, I'm suspicious of a hidden motive behind the drop in interval recommendation and I reckon I'd be horrendously unlucky if my cam belt failed between 30 and 40k. But then there's having peace of mind...

if my dealer is prepared to do a cam belt + water pump change for £300 I might consider getting it done now; if they won't then I'll find a good independent and see what they can offer. if either won't do it for that price then it's annual service and Mot only this time around and new cam belt at 40k and 5 years. I don't think I'm doing anything particularly risky here given that 5 years/60k has been practiced widely in the past.

Cambelt change intervals can, as has been said, vary from country to country. The reason/s for this are down to the feed back from dealers in the uk to the manufacturers, and this can include the number of warranty jobs concerning cam belts that occur over given mileages too. For example, Uk drivers may face slightly different driving conditions and we may use our cars differently to those in much of Germany, eg shorter trips, more city motoring and stop start overall, lower annual mileages, different weather conditions etc etc. The same will be true for cars used in Sweden, France, Italy etc etc. All this can mean the cam belt wears differently. For example, an engine that is running more miles cold, wears it's cam belt more quickly than an engine running much hotter for the mileage it does. In the Uk we tend to drive shorter distances to work than many people in Germany so our engines run more colder miles than our German friends overall. VAG found the number of cam belts failing was higher than it expected in the Uk, so it recommended a change to a lower mileage replacement figure for this to be carried out. This has cured the problem.

Cambelt change intervals can, as has been said, vary from country to country. The reason/s for this are down to the feed back from dealers in the uk to the manufacturers, and this can include the number of warranty jobs concerning cam belts that occur over given mileages too. For example, Uk drivers may face slightly different driving conditions and we may use our cars differently to those in much of Germany, eg shorter trips, more city motoring and stop start overall, lower annual mileages, different weather conditions etc etc. The same will be true for cars used in Sweden, France, Italy etc etc. All this can mean the cam belt wears differently. For example, an engine that is running more miles cold, wears it's cam belt more quickly than an engine running much hotter for the mileage it does. In the Uk we tend to drive shorter distances to work than many people in Germany so our engines run more colder miles than our German friends overall. VAG found the number of cam belts failing was higher than it expected in the Uk, so it recommended a change to a lower mileage replacement figure for this to be carried out. This has cured the problem.

Darn it Estate Man, just when I was beginning to convince myself that the 4 year/40k interval recommendation was a UK dealer servicing 'scam', you come up with this reasoned, logical explanation! Is there anything on t'interweb about the higher-than-expected cam belt failure rate in the UK?

1327355676[/url]' post='2658011']

Darn it Estate Man, just when I was beginning to convince myself that the 4 year/40k interval recommendation was a UK dealer servicing 'scam', you come up with this reasoned, logical explanation! Is there anything on t'interweb about the higher-than-expected cam belt failure rate in the UK?

Could be the salt we use on the roads in winter !

Yes it could Seb. I know in the 80's and early 90's some manufacturers found salt to be significant as a factor in belt degradation and breakages on some cars that didn't have their belts fully shielded from the elements. Don't know for sure if it's a factor over here now. Probably not as belt design and materials are more salt resistant now.

MarginWalker, I rather like the conspiracy theory thingy! Lets keep that going eh! I don't know if there is anything on interweb about it. My info comes from inside trade sources at VW...oh errr....but my recent investigations show it's probably a dealer conspiracy thing to keep up prices and screw us all!! Blinking dealers eh....

Don't these belts have stuff that's super strong like kevlar in them,my last Diesel had a chain so cam belts were not an issue.As others have said it does seem like a money making scheme.I will have to get my Belt done in may as not to void warranty in the unlikely event the belt snaps.

a family friend has just had his first cambelt change done on his 52 (oct 2002) MK4 Golf PD130 @26k miles.

Mechanic we use said the belt that was taken off didn't need changing and showed zero signs of wear. I would say that it is mileage more than age that is important. However my Bora (also PD130) was changed at 5 years and 85k miles and this also showed very little signs of wear.

Estateman do you have a basis for your 'reasoned' statement? You start off with possible explanations and by the end it is a certain fact. I just don't buy the argument about German cambelts wearing differently than UK ones. Also the original post was about time based frequency not mileage one! Sorry for going nuclear but sometimes your in the trade tone gets me going!

Edited 24 January, 201214 yr by Black

? That's why his comments are well from the horses mouth so to speak, as he was in the trade knowledge is all an unbiased view of the in's and out of the motor maze , oh and remember its just a view on his perspective so ,Estateman please how many years of knowledge you've acquired Pray tell!

Edited 24 January, 201214 yr by seboni121

Double post nothing more too add, except helloooo

Edited 24 January, 201214 yr by seboni121

Hello Seb, yes amongst other things including Military etc, spent 30 years as a tech and trouble shooter at 3 main franchised dealers. Non of them VAG as previous posts of mine indicate. But I certainly don't know it all and that's why I find this site so useful as it has helped me know my Skoda.

Black, very sorry if some of my posts make you get going and that certainly isn't the intention. Thanks for the feedback. Don't know what I can do about that though as I do have knowledge about cars gained in my life, I can't disregard that. I do find therefore I can answer some queries on this board. Although of course I may not always be right as some things move on and I haven't teched on cars for over 7 years now. However I still get one or two of my trade jounals and have many colleagues still in the trade. But after all, we are all on here to learn from each other and help each other. But I do witter on quite a bit as most of you know and maybe it's my writing style you don't like. I'm a tech not a writer though, I'll try my best not to annoy you.

If you re-read my posts I answer the OP on both time and mileage. We then discussed why belts are changed at differing times in different countries. I offered an explanation which I know to be valid. And, (sorry about this) it is a fact that engines (and cambelts) wear differently in different countries and the way a car is used even in the same country will make it wear differently. I used Germany as an example (probably not the best choice). If I'd have said Africa or India then you'd have probably excepted that more easily because it is much hotter, dryer, dustier. Even service intervals can differ for the same vehicle in different countries. But my point remains the same. Manufacturers make a judgement about these things based upon engineering knowledge and then the 'in field' experience based on failure rate per 1000 units. If one fails before time they look at why this happens then watch to see if others fail. If there are others fail they move to remedy the situation and this may mean a newer type of belt or revising the mileage at which the belt is changed. Incidentally, cambelts wear more when they are cold due to several factors. The belt is less flexible when cold, But it also runs less taught until the engine block expands and tightens the belt. This causes the belt to flex more than when it is taught and belt teeth are not quite so smartly aligned etc. We're not talking huge amounts but enough to cause an increase in wear. The difference can be quite a bit on some engines. Some belt tensions are set cold, some when the engine is warm. So cold running tensions will vary from model to model. A visual inspection of a used belt may show the belt to look ok but the wear inside the belt structure is unseen and may be substantial. So a visual inspection is not a terribly accurate way to define if the 'belt is ok'. A tech should know this. Sometimes of course a belt is visually in very poor shape when you take it off and so it is obvious it should be replaced. Never remove a belt and reuse it, the chances of early failure increases exponentially if you do that.

I know it's not fashionable to say this, but no manufacturer wants to increase their service interval charges. This makes their cars more costly to own and it is less likely we will buy them in preference to another makes that doesn't require a belt change so soon. Conspiracy theory to get more cash from us...my bottom!!

Errr....see! I've just been wittering again....

Edited 24 January, 201214 yr by Estate Man

I would say that it is mileage more than age that is important.

This accords with my thinking but there are plenty out there (and several in this thread) saying don't take the risk and get it replaced after 4 years even with a relatively low mileage. All-in-all I'm pretty confused about this subject! I accept that cam belts can wear at different rates depending on environmental variations, driving style, typical journey time, etc. but I'd really like to see the evidence (if any exists) behind VAG's decision to lower the recommended interval for cam belt replacement in the UK...