Hi All

Have just registered to find out a little more about the Superb Estate.

I have been a 12yr Saab fan currently on my third car. This is 5 years old and I need a bigger car. I have been patiently waiting for the new 9-5 estate but this will never see production with the company having recently filed for bankruptcy :'(

I have researched the alternatives and come to the conclusion that the Superb Estate is the closest match to the 9-5 and the Skoda philosophy seems more closely aligned with Saab than any of the other mainstream companies.

I currently drive a 2.8T V6 Aero 9-3 Wagon which is a fantastic car but too small for the 3 kids + associated paraphenalia. My daily travels also encompass some pretty rural locations so the added traction of a 4x4 drivetrain [which would have been offered on the new 9-5] is desirable.

The biggest question is should I opt for sensible and look at the 170CR diesel 4x4 or look at the V6? I have never owned an automatic before so am a little frustrated to see that the flagship V6 comes only with DSG transmission [however I think the V6 9-5 was going the same way]....

Sorry for the long first post :S

LF

Firstly, welcome to the Forum!

Noting your current car, I'm not sure that the 170CR 4x4 is necessarily the "sensible" option - I'd say that depends on how much gear you're intending to lug around. The Superb Estate won't let you down at all in relation to available space - it's massive. However, although the 170CR will also be a great 4x4, there's no substitute for power and the DSG will handle it well.

I'd say that your decision depends upon how much fun you want out of the car, versus how much you're prepared to pay for it in the running costs. The 170CR is a great car, the V6 is a terrific car, but there's a premium to be paid. Good luck!

Ray

Thanks for your thoughts Ray. I think this might be a tough decision - need to test drive I think....

LF

Welcome LF!

I went for the 170CR 4x4 Combi and have no regrets whatsoever.

A great load-lugger, plenty of power when needed and pretty good on the mpg front.

25,000 miles now in all conditions. A great bit of kit.

Phil.

Hello Lowflyer!

Looking at Your car history I wouldn't be sure CR170 4x4 is a good idea. It's the most powerful of diesels, can be 're-helped' and is available as manual, however it's not a mach to a petrol guzzling V6. Learning to cope with DSG will be up to You. Whether You will survive or extinct

I come from a petrol 9-3. Was also considering a new 9-5 however it looked too good but Superb offered much more practicality for the same money.

So better test drive both. However if You decide to go more "green" and economical then diesel is a good option. For takeovers You have a thing called 'torque' and manual box. And in any ways You have plenty of room to take half of the UK with You...

4x4 is nice option, even if one doesn't have winters with a lot of snow likoe over here.

And getting all the options together You still end up holding a lot of money for other needs, compared to Saab for example...

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

I have just changed from a 170CR DSG Twindoor to a 3.6 V6 Estate. Both had the dsg box.

The Twindoor I owned for 3 years, covered 55,000 miles with just one unscheduled visit to the dealer.

When I bought the twindoor, I realy wanted an estate but at that time it was not available.

The DSG box has some quirks, but it is an excellent box.

Comparison:

I miss the low down torque of the 170 CR, they both have the same peak torque figures, but the CR is 1,000 rpm lower and this is very noticeable, especially around town.

The V6 engine is just a dream - I cannot give you enough superlatives about the smoothness, power delivery, soundtrack and combined with the DSG become an effortless cruise machine (until you hit the loud pedal) - then it just flys.

Spacewise the Combi boot is large, but I miss the ability to have a narrow opening to get the laptop out, it needs an opening rear window aka the BMW 5 series estate.

Running costs:

The 170cr averaged 46.7 mpg during those 55K miles the 4x4 would have been a little less.

V6 averaging 27 but the car has only done 700 miles so no-where near loose yet.

Servicing costs, both cars are on long service plans, the V6 about £10 a month more.

Car tax on V6 £430 per year, 170 CR I think was £165.

Must have extra with DSG is Hill Hold - I ddn't have it on the 170CR and boy now I have it what a difference.

You will not regret buying a Superb, try a couple out and get comfortable with the differences manual/auto diesel/petrol. Also consider tuning as an opton that many do here on the forum.

BTW if you are near Croydon in the near future happy to show and take you around the car.

Some very informative replies. Thank-you.

This is going to be a tough call. If the V6 came with a manual box the choice may be a little easier...

Looking at current second hand prices on skoda website there are a few V6 cars around 20-22K with relatively low mileage whereas the 170CR with 4x4 are a few K more for similar age/mileage. However over 5 years the lower running costs of the 170CR would easily offset the higher purchase cost.

So diesel cheaper [no surprise but only 1-2K over 5yrs]. Better residual value with the 170CR [when the time comes!] further adds to the diesel cost arguement.

However V6 more of what I am used to and better "fun" factor [family cars don't have to be boring do they!!]. Worried that I will not get on with the DSG box though.

This is going to cause a few sleepless nights I am sure. Hope I like the Superb when I finally get to look at one/drive it! From the research I have done it seems by far the best choice with the demise of Saab.

LF

V6 averaging 27

You're doing better than me. Mines dead on 24.9 at 3200 miles, but with mainly town driving, and the loud pedal

Worried that I will not get on with the DSG box though.

LF

If you try a V6 make sure it has the multi-function steering wheel with "flappy paddles".

This allows you to forget about gear changing when around town or stuck in traffic and then when you want to "press-on" you can take control with lightning quick gear changes - and then there is the added bonus of sport mode where change points are higher and throttle reponse is quicker :-)

You're doing better than me. Mines dead on 24.9 at 3200 miles, but with mainly town driving, and the loud pedal

Still taking it easy due to low mileage - do see very low 20's around town, but my commute is mainly A and M roads and have seen 34 mpg at the end of a journey at a steady 70/75.

You're doing better than me. Mines dead on 24.9 at 3200 miles, but with mainly town driving, and the loud pedal

I am now at about 7K miles, average is about 28mpg which is about the same as my former car, an Audi All-Road diesel. As petrol is cheaper per litre I a happy with that.

To LF, try the DSG it works really well (but agree with ddyer79 Hill Hold is a MUST, should be standard) but you need to drive one.

If there had been a 170 bhp diesel with 4x4 and DSG I might have gone with that, but am really pleased I got the full fat V6, it is a pleasure to drive, smooth, powerful and sounds great .

Apologies if this is dim question but how does the Hill Hold system work and why is it such an advantage?

LF

You definitely need to test drive the DSG before ruling it out - because it's a dual-clutch transmission, the driving feel is much closer to a manual gearbox than to a traditional torque-converter automatic; indeed, it is basically two manual gearboxes, and a robot that operates the clutches and gearshift levers. You do need Hill Hold Control with it, as you can't easily make it ride the clutch while you release the handbrake, but that's the only downside I've found.

If you want the race driver feel available to you (for when you want a bit of fun in the car), add the flappy paddles; I've personally not bothered, as I'm happy to use the gearshift instead on the rare occasions where I want manual control of the gear choice, but that's my preferences only.

Edited to add: Hill Hold Control makes the car keep the brakes on lightly as you get going on a slope, so that you don't roll backwards as the clutch engages and the engine starts to pull.

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Farnz

Apologies if this is dim question but how does the Hill Hold system work and why is it such an advantage?

LF

DSG boxes disengage the clutch to avoid wear when stationary.

When you stop on a hill in a DSG equipped car if you remove your foot from the brake pedal the DSG box does not hold like a conventional auto, the car will roll back. The normal action is therefore to apply the hand brake and take foot off brake pedal. When taking foot off the brake pedal the clutch re-enganges so the car wants to go again but is held by hand brake. It is this process that hill hold helps with.

With hill hold you keep your foot on brake pedal - clutch disengages - remove foot from brake pedal - hill hold holds the car on the brakes for 2-3 seconds so you can re-apply power and move off smoothly.

Hope this makes sense.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I have only ever driven Saab auto in loan/courtesy car whilst mine was in for service etc. These were pretty dim witted and annoying so maybe I have a skewed view of what auto transmission can do - it sounds like DSG is quite different from the standard auto situation.

LF

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I have only ever driven Saab auto in loan/courtesy car whilst mine was in for service etc. These were pretty dim witted and annoying so maybe I have a skewed view of what auto transmission can do - it sounds like DSG is quite different from the standard auto situation.

LF

Very much so! Things such as down-shifting as you go up/down a hill (they have a built-in tilt sensor) which is something I've never know a conventional auto to do unless when going up hill you either push harder on the throttle or the speed drops enough to warrant a gear change.

As said above they are nothing like a normal auto box as they are essentially 2 manual gearboxes each with it's own clutch. Gear changes are very smooth and pretty instantaneous (driving in second gear would mean third gear is ready engaged on the "second box" so all that needs to happen is one clutch disengage and the other engage).

Phil

DSG boxes disengage the clutch to avoid wear when stationary.

When you stop on a hill in a DSG equipped car if you remove your foot from the brake pedal the DSG box does not hold like a conventional auto, the car will roll back. The normal action is therefore to apply the hand brake and take foot off brake pedal. When taking foot off the brake pedal the clutch re-enganges so the car wants to go again but is held by hand brake. It is this process that hill hold helps with.

With hill hold you keep your foot on brake pedal - clutch disengages - remove foot from brake pedal - hill hold holds the car on the brakes for 2-3 seconds so you can re-apply power and move off smoothly.

Hope this makes sense.

Are You sure?! It'll not roll back but keep crawling (if not at an extreme angle) - just like a normal automatic. And that's why I'd use brake pedal and not a handbrake. When taking off from hill I just release the brake pedal and use accelerator...

As I understand 'Uphill start assist' is only intended for take-off and holds the car for 2sec. after releasing the brake pedal. After 2secs. the braeks are released and car will roll back (and that mainly applies to manual).

What have I misunderstood?

Are You sure?! It'll not roll back but keep crawling (if not at an extreme angle) - just like a normal automatic. And that's why I'd use brake pedal and not a handbrake. When taking off from hill I just release the brake pedal and use accelerator...

As I understand 'Uphill start assist' is only intended for take-off and holds the car for 2sec. after releasing the brake pedal. After 2secs. the braeks are released and car will roll back (and that mainly applies to manual).

What have I misunderstood?

I perhaps should have been more specific.

As soon as you apply the brake and stop the clutch is disengaged.

When you remove your foot from the brake the car will roll back until the clutch re-engages which can be disconcerting if you are on a hill.

If you hold the car by use of the accelerator you will not notice this effect.

Believe me having had two Superbs with DSG, one without and now one with hill hold, it is one extra I would not be without.

... and better "fun" factor [family cars don't have to be boring do they!!]. Worried that I will not get on with the DSG box though.

My Superb V6 is my first car with an automatic box. And I never miss the manual boxes as you can't shift as fast and smooth youself as the DSG.

I have learned myself one trick though. You will drive in "D" mode most of the time, which is silent and smooth but the revs will be below optimal torque for a quick accelleration as the V6 has no turbo. A kick-down will do the job but not very smooth as you will go from too little torque to more than enough torque and power.

The trick is to switch from "D" to "S" mode whenever you anticipate that you may need some torque. In "S"-mode the revs will stay above 2500 RPM and you have all the torque you need. Switch back to "D" when you no longer need the torque. This is the last reminiscense of manual shifting for me and it may work for you as well.

My wife never uses the "S"-mode. She is so happy for the DSG as she has always hated manual boxes.

(Regarding "fun" factor: Take care of your family. Too often I get complaints from my family for having a little V6-fun, e.g. grown-up daughter at the front seat: "Wait - I have to pick up my brain from the back seat".)

(I hope my English is understandable)

All very helpful thanks.

It is interesting to note that the V6 only hits its optimal torque from 2500rpm whereas the 170CR is more like 1700rpm. My Saab V6 delivers max torque from around the 1700rpm mark so the 170CR would feel very similar providing my right foot is not kept firmly planted on the loud pedal - I do like the way a V6 engine just keeps pulling and pulling

LF

To be honest, I cant add much more to whats already been said. I totally agree with putting the gearbox in sport mode for coming off roundabouts for example. In drive, its nothing until it kicks down and you get it all. One advantage of the V6 (or maybe any dsg) is using cruise control. When you press the button to increase the speed, if you hold it, it kicks down 2 gears and uses full throttle! Its good for waking the family up on long trips

I test drove the 170 DSG, and thought that was quick, so I would be happy with that. I only ended up with a V6 because it saved me money

Good Luck with the car buying

Having previously owned a 2000 Saab 93 TiD, a 1993 Saab 9000 CS 2.3 turbo, a 2001 Saab 93 Viggen, a 2005 Saab 93 2.0T convertible, and my wife's 2000 Saab 95 2.0t SW, and currently driving a 2009 Superb 1.8 TSI DSG (company car)...

... I would say your best choice would be a Superb Combi, but neither the TDI 170 nor the 3.6 V6, but the 2.0 TSI. You will not miss the turbo "punch" of your Saab 9.3 2.8 V6. Just forget about MPG and enjoy the driving

Just my two cents.

By the way, the renting contract of my company car ends next year and we are going to buy it because my wife is going to swap the Saab for the Superb.

Thanks Alvaro. Nice to get your take on things with your Saab history...

More food for thought!!!

LF

Hi All

Have just registered to find out a little more about the Superb Estate.

I have been a 12yr Saab fan currently on my third car. This is 5 years old and I need a bigger car. I have been patiently waiting for the new 9-5 estate but this will never see production with the company having recently filed for bankruptcy

I have researched the alternatives and come to the conclusion that the Superb Estate is the closest match to the 9-5 and the Skoda philosophy seems more closely aligned with Saab than any of the other mainstream companies.

I currently drive a 2.8T V6 Aero 9-3 Wagon which is a fantastic car but too small for the 3 kids + associated paraphenalia. My daily travels also encompass some pretty rural locations so the added traction of a 4x4 drivetrain [which would have been offered on the new 9-5] is desirable.

The biggest question is should I opt for sensible and look at the 170CR diesel 4x4 or look at the V6? I have never owned an automatic before so am a little frustrated to see that the flagship V6 comes only with DSG transmission [however I think the V6 9-5 was going the same way]....

Sorry for the long first post

LF

First of all: welcome to the forum Lowflying!

I hear you man! We share the same experience!

I've been driving SAABs since 1996 and when I changed the employer last year, I needed to order a brand new company's car. It was in April 2011 and during that time the production of SAABs stopped just completely. So I had to choose another brand. I chose Skoda SuperB estate because of its (leg)space and other good characteristics. I've now driven approx. 6 months with it and have been very satisfied with it.

The only "bad things" I've noticed are:

-the width of the car: it's quite narrow inside :-(

-the position of the ignition switch (it's not on the floor like in SAABs)

-there's not night/black panel function in Skoda (the function which will turn off the lighting and the meters of the dashboard except the speedometer). That would be a handy function when you're driving in the dark.

To summarize: A very good car but it's not a SAAB ;-)