Can anyone recommend an advanced driving course in/around south west london?

Is doing a course worthwhile?

Can't help on location - but getting a little extra tuition - esp if high performance variety can only help in driving more safely and increasing the enjoyment levels.

Originally posted by exFiesta in this post

Can anyone recommend an advanced driving course in/around south west london?

Is doing a course worthwhile?

I'm assuming you mean a real advanced driving course, nor "Pass Plus" or some such (IMO) Noddy course.

You have two choices - IAM (the Institute of Advanced Motorists) and RoADA (RoSPA Advanced Drivers Association).

National websites are http://www.iam.org.uk and http://www.roada.org.uk

Both organisations work in roughly the same way; you can join a local group as an associate, and get teamed up with an "observer" (they're instructors, really, but there's some obscure insurance/H & S rule that says they can't be called instructors). There's an annual fee for associate membership, but this is low (varies from group to group) and (usually) just covers administration. The observers are all volunteers; most of them are associated with advanced driving in some way (recently I've been driving with someone who teaches driving instructors, and someone who has retired from teaching RAF HGV drivers, who wants to keep his "instructor" hand in). When your observer thinks you are ready, you can apply for the advanced test.

The tests are similar - the examiners are all Police Class 1 certificate holders - but the results are presented differently.

The IAM test is a straight pass/fail. Once you've passed, you remain eligible for membership indefinitely - as long as you pay your annual fee - if you keep your nose clean. Even a minor speeding offence won't get you kicked out ( I know - I was that soldier!)

The RoADA test is graded - Bronze, Silver, and Gold. A RoADA Gold is generally regarded as the highest grade available to a non-Police driver (definitely in the UK; arguably in the world). You also have to take (free) periodic tests to maintain RoADA membership.

I've been an IAM member for 30 years - some of which (with hindsight) I shouldn't have even had a normal driving licence. Currently, I'm working towards a RoADA test.

Thanks Mike, I will take some time to look through both of those courses.

Cheers,

Keoghan

Keoghan,

Here are a couple more options for you.

This one is excellent, but very,very hard to pass. I've started doing it and it is not easy at all! All I'll say is, the guy is a seriously good driver and a very good instructor

If it is just tuition you want, how about some simple 1 day courses, such as "wetter the better" from Don Palmer, www.drivingdevelopment.co.uk, (its jolly good fun and very useful). Click here for a review of his Creative Car Control course

As Mike says, try RoSPA and IAM, both are very good, although I prefer RoSPA. I found the IAM a bit to fuddy duddy (I know what I mean and I don't mean any offence) and very strict on speeding.

I've passed both the IAM and the RoSPA course (GOLD level) - As soon as I have a half decent performance car I'm going to do the John Lyon's course.

I'd agree with the comments about RoSPA being a bit more progressive than IAM. During my training for RoSPA I was encourage to get my foot down (Causing me to break the speed limit by 20+ MPH) to get a safe overtake in.

"Nothing wrong with a bit of speed if done safely" was my Police Class 1 instructors remark. Definitely one of the old school. A top guy in my book.

Indeed, I always found the Roadcraft learner driver rule of not being allowed to break the speed

limit to overtake rather bizarre and pretty dangerous.

But then, I suppose if every 17 year old was told they could exceed the speed limit when overtaking,

there'd be a lot of young hooligans driving very fast on the wrong side of the road...

Rob.

Robmawer

Indeed. But if youngsters were taught more about what they can and cannot do safely, ratehr than simply obey all speed limits, maybe that would do more for road safety?

Personally, if a person has the requisite skills to drive safely then assuming they use them, age makes no difference.

Just my 2p

Originally posted by robmawer in this post

Indeed, I always found the Roadcraft learner driver rule of not being allowed to break the speed

limit to overtake rather bizarre and pretty dangerous.

Rob.

Problem is Roadcraft is a publication in the public domain, for legal reasons I don't think they could state anything other than adhering to speed limits.

Classis quote from my boss:

'The faster you travel, the less time you spend on the road, the safer it is for everybody'

Cra,

You'll enjoy "learning" with John Lyons

Its hard work, I found it quite tiring, but it is well worth it.

I thought about doing a similar course for personal pride and hopefully cheaper insurance, but no insurance company I got quotes from said they did discounts for advanced motoring qualifications. I found this rather disturbing in the whole. It makes the financial incentive to do advanced driving courses completely worthless (OK, perhaps financially worthwhile if it helps you not to crash often...)

PS: "pass-plus" was the only course recognised by insurance companies, but you have to have done it within ONE year of passing your test, meaning its only worthwhile if you're 17 or 18. Me being 24 and having held a license for 7 years mean jack ****! Rant over

:rant:

Originally posted by cra in this post

Indeed. But if youngsters were taught more about what they can and cannot do safely, ratehr than simply obey all speed limits, maybe that would do more for road safety?

Very true - but then you're starting to make people have to use

their own initiative when driving, rather than just doing what

they're told...

Rob.

Originally posted by cra in this post

..........

Personally, if a person has the requisite skills to drive safely then assuming they use them, age makes no difference.

........

How do you decide who has the requistie skills? We all think we are better than the next man.......it wont happen to us......we all take risks..........and some of us get caught out.........which means injured or killed.....statistically if today is typical 10 people will be killed on our roads.....this will be the result of human failure......poor judgement.....poor risk assessment.....we have to get the basics right before we go to the next level....

Originally posted by devonutopia in this post

PS: "pass-plus" was the only course recognised by insurance companies,

Isn't Pass Plus just 6 lessons after you've passed where you

get taken on motorways and night time driving? Bascially, stuff

which should be in the compulsory test anyway, judging by the

appalling lane discipline and misuse of lights witnessed on the

roads everyday...

Rob.

Indeed, Rob. I learned more than pass-plus could probably have taught me, just driving myself up and down the M5 a bit. And as for night driving - I did a shedload of that whilst learning to drive. I actually enjoyed it at night more than the day because the roads were emptier. I guess thats the benefit of waiting six months from the first drive at 17, to taking the test....?

I witnessed a fait bit of bad lane discipline on Saturday - and it wasn't Jon's driving, I might add.

( or it depends if you count trashing past queues of traffic on Welsh B roads... )

Originally posted by devonutopia in this post

I actually enjoyed it at night more than the day because the roads were emptier. I guess thats the benefit of waiting six months from the first drive at 17, to taking the test....?

Yeah, was siz months between first driving lesson and passing

my test. Being a January child, my first lesson was in snow, and

I did a lot of night time driving to start with as the evening's were

dark. Then summer came, and that brought it's own distractions,

what with being a coastal town and everything...

Rob.

Originally posted by devonutopia in this post

I thought about doing a similar course for personal pride and hopefully cheaper insurance, but no insurance company I got quotes from said they did discounts for advanced motoring qualifications. I found this rather disturbing in the whole. It makes the financial incentive to do advanced driving courses completely worthless (OK, perhaps financially worthwhile if it helps you not to crash often...)

PS: "pass-plus" was the only course recognised by insurance companies, but you have to have done it within ONE year of passing your test, meaning its only worthwhile if you're 17 or 18. Me being 24 and having held a license for 7 years mean jack ****! Rant over

:rant:

There are companies which offer a discount for IAM membership, but IME their base premiums are higher to start with - which means that you end up paying more or less the same (or even more!) as you would for the big name insurers.

It's still worth going for one of the advanced tests, though. I find the observed runs very enjoyable (going for one tonight, in fact). Also, there's no doubt that it makes you a safer driver - a research exercise by the (then) TRRL some years ago showed that people who had passed an advanced test had a better than average accident record (fewer/less severe). In fact, even people who had failed the advanced test were safer than average (because they were drivers instead of mere licence holders?).

it took me 2 years to pass my test finally passed on the 9 june this year at my first attempt and i got 2 minors it was my own decision not to take my test any sooner and because of this i feel a lot safer on the road i dont wish to become another statistic!

on a sadder note i work in the local hospital and get to see the result of too much speed/lack of observation i could recount many horrors but wont as dont wish to lower the tone.

Fabia - well done for taking your time. I'm not suggesting that a 17 year old can't be a very good driver, but in the long run there's no substitute for experience. Some advanced tuition could be a very good step in the right direction for young drivers (and old). I keep meaning to do something about this but time is very scarce just now.

Mike why are you sporting that French flag? Are you French as well as Welsh and Greek? :p

fully agree mate experience is the key even though i have been driving for a month solo i am becoming far more aware and confident on the roads however i belive that these 1 week pass schemes should be abolished

Originally posted by ncarring in this post

Mike why are you sporting that French flag? Are you French as well as Welsh and Greek? :p

Bastille Day anything to do with it ?

:cheers:

Graham

I must be in a minority then, I do not class myself as a good driver in fact I would say I am average. Why do I think this? Well, I've been with people who I consider to be good drivers and they are far better than me, be it on the road or on the track. Quite humbling really.

Don't shy away from telling your experiences, it certainly wouldn't lower the tone. I believe we all benefit from a wake up call from time to time. You are quite right to make the connection between inappropriate speed/lack of observation and human suffering.......that's how it is in the real world!

I live about 4 miles from the scene of last weeks motorway crash on the M56, where 7 people were killed. It makes you stop and think......

In your persuit of more information on driving skills I would recommend the Police Drivers Manual "Roadcraft", it is focused developing safe driving skills, car control, hazard awareness, observation etc. skills that are all required before any attempt is made a higher speed driving. It's an HMSO publication.

as requested by spc here is one of my worst experiences when a driver spent too long checking their rear view mirror missed the bend and went head on into a camper van the driver walked away with no injuries the 2 passengers ended up dying from their injuries the male had his diaphragm punctured and his stomach passed up into his lungs survived for a week also had the usual fractured ribs and cuts and bruises also his gall bladder was in his arm pit the female passenger never regained consciosness suffering major head and chest trauma she died the day before the male

The second worst was when i was volunteering with st john ambulance motor cyclist and pillion over took car doing about 60 mph rider (driver?) was embedded in engine block of car they went into and car went up in flames (1 in 10 chance?) so no action could be taken pillion was female cpr started but stopped when told patients head was found to have gone 360 degrees abdomen was was soft and most bones broken did not realise until after incident that patient was female as features unrecogniseable .

sorry if this offends any one feel free to remove if you so wish

pantients identity have been concealed to maintain confidentiality