Manual or DSG vRS ?

[Phil-E]

People above saying that the DSG is heavier on fuel than manual... thought it was the other way round and also thought the DSG has lower co2 emissions?

I've driven a DSG briefly (Fabia MK2 vRS) and been driven briefly in another (Octy MK2 vRS 170 estate) and loved both of them. Very nice gearbox and would have one in a flash!

Phil

[TsvRS]

I agree but put 6 busy roundabouts in the way and ill see you in my rear view mirror!!

100% in agreement. You could also park two or three times in the time I take. On a 0-60 time the DSG is faster but I am grown up so I don't really care. However . . . if for some reason I need to change from a relaxed passing manoeuvre into a full power blast then the DSG is really useful and far quicker than the manual change.

[dunc69]

Care to explain exactly what you mean by this? I think I know what you mean, but would like to see what you meant before I comment.

Sure, I believe it can accelerate more quickly through the gears than a manual due to the near instant gear changes.

In reality though we're talking only fractions of seconds quicker so of little practical use!

I've also read, as commented on above, that DSG is more fuel efficient than a manual. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

[Hofmiester]

I've had my DSG VRS for a week now and I've had some big power modded manual cars in the past. I was apprehensive about the DSG but the deal was excellent so I did it.

At first, I liked it due to the novelty. Then I started to dislike it as there is a certain feeling of being disconected from the mechanical goings on.

Finally I've come to the conclusion that I don't mind that, the positives outway the negatives. For example, it broadens the range of enjoyable use of the car, when you want a cruiser, stuck in traffic or are tired then it is very easy to drive, enjoyable like a Merc!

When you want to rag it, stick it in manual mode or S and it is stupidly quick, I think I am a good driver but I can't change gears as fast as DSG. Overall I think the car suits a broader range of driving situations in sacrifice for a very small about of feedback when really driving hard.

Essentially making the VRS a grand tourer rather than a hot hatch.

Having had a manual VRS before, I think the mpg is about 3-5 less with DSG though :(

[Hofmiester]

When you accelerate in a DSG car in auto mode it really is just like one continuos power band. It just goes and goes and goes

[Stoofa]

Sure, I believe it can accelerate more quickly through the gears than a manual due to the near instant gear changes.

In reality though we're talking only fractions of seconds quicker so of little practical use!

I've also read, as commented on above, that DSG is more fuel efficient than a manual. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

That's what I hoped you were saying. A better word to use would have been "accelerate" rather than faster - faster implied a "quicker" top-end.

[dunc69]

That's what I hoped you were saying. A better word to use would have been "accelerate" rather than faster - faster implied a "quicker" top-end.

Fair enough. Top end is neither here nor there these days! We are in 'Gridlock Britain' after all!

[rockhopper]

I am on my 2nd DSG box.

First in a 2.0 PD140 L&K Octavia Estate. 2006 model

Now have a Yeti Diesel DSG. 2011 model.

The software has improved big time between them.

I don't have a problem with roundabout in the Yeti, but I did with the Octavia.

I didn't have paddles on the Octavia and the Yeti doesn't come with them. But I have had one retrofitted.

Most of the time I leave in D, but when I want control I can override at any point in time, even in D. Use tiptronic when out on country roads and want some fun.

I will not go back to a manual either. Been using autos since 2003. The DSG is the best I have used.

[booke23]

When you accelerate in a DSG car in auto mode it really is just like one continuos power band. It just goes and goes and goes

Not exactly....I believe a CVT auto behaves like that. The DSG has a definite gear change (it's really an automated dual clutch manual transmission). But it feels like it goes and goes because the upshifts are insanely fast (8 milliseconds!)

People above saying that the DSG is heavier on fuel than manual... thought it was the other way round and also thought the DSG has lower co2 emissions?

On the 2.0tdi pd, the DSG costs you 8-10% in fuel economy. On that basis I'd guess the DSG has slightly higher emissions. I'm not sure of the effect on other engines. I do know the 7 speed DSG used on some of the petrol engines are dry clutch designs (6 speed DSG is wet clutch). So fuel economy may not be effected much.

Edited 25 May, 2012 by booke23

[Phil-E]

Ah yes... I think that's what I'm thinking of.

I think it's the 7 speed dry DSG that does better rather than the wet 6 speed.

Also as said before you get a much better power delivery... with a manual it can be very on/off as you change gears whereas with the very quich changes of the DSG it much more consistent.

Phil

[Hofmiester]

It's funny, I drove my BMW last night as it seemed so strange to have to change gear. I didn't think I would notice but it feels like you are forever stopping and starting again, as soon as you get moving you lose momentum again with a gear change.

DSG is just WHOOOOOSH ...here is your 3 points and a £60 fine

[marcevo1]

I agree but put 6 busy roundabouts in the way and ill see you in my rear view mirror!!

Rubbish! Absolute tosh.... Whilst Dsg has limitations you can make it perform as good if not better than a manual.

How many race / rally cars are there which A. use a clutch pedal B. uses a stick shifter? Ok not Dsg but there is a reason for automated sequential shifting with WOT gear changes.

Sure if you just leave it in d auto it's going to be caught out but there is a reason for knocking the lever left

I've driven some pretty quick motors on road / track and forest and Dsg on a couple of roundabouts is faster changing up and down than I can with heel and toe.

True it takes getting use to but once you've got the hang of it it's pretty dam quick

[OCScene]

Rubbish! Absolute tosh.... Whilst Dsg has limitations you can make it perform as good if not better than a manual.

How many race / rally cars are there which A. use a clutch pedal B. uses a stick shifter? Ok not Dsg but there is a reason for automated sequential shifting with WOT gear changes.

Sure if you just leave it in d auto it's going to be caught out but there is a reason for knocking the lever left

I've driven some pretty quick motors on road / track and forest and Dsg on a couple of roundabouts is faster changing up and down than I can with heel and toe.

True it takes getting use to but once you've got the hang of it it's pretty dam quick

I had 24000 miles to get used to it and found it tosh! Why would I want to pop it into manual everytime I come to a roundabout? Thats just hassle!! Surely thats goes against the reason for getting any form of an Auto. The cars are about £1500 more than their manual equivelent for that I dont expect to have to put it in manual every time i pull out of a junction or sneak out in busy traffic at a round about.

The other point raised by someone else is valid. The fine art of the reverse up a hill!! Another flaw.

Ive driven many cars in my time and no auto does it quite as well as a standard torque convertor box. It's just a shame fuel economy takes such a beating.

[OCScene]

How many race / rally cars are there which A. use a clutch pedal B. uses a stick shifter? gear changes.

How many race tracks or motorsports have roundabouts, tee junctions and traffic jams?!

[booke23]

How many race tracks or motorsports have roundabouts, tee junctions and traffic jams?!

Monaco?

[marcevo1]

I had 24000 miles to get used to it and found it tosh! Why would I want to pop it into manual everytime I come to a roundabout? Thats just hassle!! Surely thats goes against the reason for getting any form of an Auto. The cars are about £1500 more than their manual equivelent for that I dont expect to have to put it in manual every time i pull out of a junction or sneak out in busy traffic at a round about.

The other point raised by someone else is valid. The fine art of the reverse up a hill!! Another flaw.

Ive driven many cars in my time and no auto does it quite as well as a standard torque convertor box. It's just a shame fuel economy takes such a beating.

Think you hit the nail on the head. You bought one as you wanted an auto? I bought one as I wanted occasional auto for the commute - with a switch to semi auto and a much more robust clutch.

The standard vrs manual pedal layout is typical vag dire - spacing, sensitivity and levels - not conducive of wanting a manual for me.

Day to day trundling its hassle free - if you do want performance you really do need to use put it in manual mode. The gear change is fast and at your control. My first worries of changing up mid corner etc have not materialised unless you drive it like a numpty.... Providing you throw the lever left and use the paddles.

My only other experience of autos are pretty dire no mater what age - 1980's mercs, 2011 mercs and a db7 - all of which I hated to be honest as fun cars but great cruisers.

Horses for courses - I think a lot of people who hate Dsg are really wanting a normal auto or not willing to try the experience.

Everything's a compromise - whilst it's not the best it's a belting all rounder

[dunc69]

Think you hit the nail on the head. You bought one as you wanted an auto? I bought one as I wanted occasional auto for the commute - with a switch to semi auto and a much more robust clutch.

The standard vrs manual pedal layout is typical vag dire - spacing, sensitivity and levels - not conducive of wanting a manual for me.

Day to day trundling its hassle free - if you do want performance you really do need to use put it in manual mode. The gear change is fast and at your control. My first worries of changing up mid corner etc have not materialised unless you drive it like a numpty.... Providing you throw the lever left and use the paddles.

My only other experience of autos are pretty dire no mater what age - 1980's mercs, 2011 mercs and a db7 - all of which I hated to be honest as fun cars but great cruisers.

Horses for courses - I think a lot of people who hate Dsg are really wanting a normal auto or not willing to try the experience.

Everything's a compromise - whilst it's not the best it's a belting all rounder

Very well put. I couldn't agree more!

[rap1]

My DSG suits me very well and is my 2nd auto after years of 'shunning' them like the plague in favour of manuals.

Then after a few trips to the states and driving for miles in their auto hire cars and then thinking about the 26 roundabouts between Swansea city centre and my home I took the plunge first with the BMW 320 which was great but I think I prefer the DSG with its super-smooth shifting and immediate power when floored!

I also love the choice I have with the 'flappy paddle' shifters and /or the sport mode whichever takes my fancy.

It's certainly taken the strain of constant manual gear changes for all those roundabouts out of the equation and I never feel that mine's in the wrong gear either on approach or on leaving them.

Some manual box enthusiasts say they prefer control but I can say I also have control and can change gear quicker than any manual even when I use the flappy's.

Each to their own I suppose.

[BigAl820]

"The other point raised by someone else is valid. The fine art of the reverse up a hill!! Another flaw."

Can someone explain the "flaw" with a DSG box while reversing uphill. Got a test drive this week :evil:

[Hofmiester]

I havent had any reverse up a hill issues?

[OCScene]

"The other point raised by someone else is valid. The fine art of the reverse up a hill!! Another flaw."

Can someone explain the "flaw" with a DSG box while reversing uphill. Got a test drive this week :evil:

Fined a steep hill and try a reverse park....its not impossible but takes a lot of getting used to. The car has a tendancy or 'lurching' quite on folk not used to it. I have a very steep drive and it was quite scary at first reversing onto the main road. It took a bit of getting used to.

A quick google shows some more stories of the reverse up a hill dsg flaw!

[Evening Star]

I find that using reverse on my DSG is an art that I can never quite get right, I do it but it sometimes starts with a bit of lurch.

[DBT85]

The issue with reversing up hill I think stems from the fact that if you don't use the throttle and just allow the car to creep, when you reach a certain incline the engine doesn't have enough to move the bulk of the car with no throttle input. So instead of stalling the engine, the DSG pulls the clutch and so you lose drive.

The way around that is to give it some throttle, but because it is the computer controlling the clutch it can take some getting used to. You can go from "is this thing in gear" to "I'm going to die and take Mrs Stevenson and her cat with me as I go through her front door" in the blink of an eye.

For me the thing to keep in mind is that if you touch the throttle before the clutch is engaged the engine is obviously going to rev, when you press the throttle and nothing happens you give it more throttle but nothing happened in the first place because the clutch wasn't there yet. When then box notices that you have lots of revs on and are not moving it drops the clutch double time and you'll go lurching. I've found that as long as I give the clutch time to fully engage all lurchiness is gone.

As for roundabouts, I've noticed what others have said about it hesitating but it almost seems like the clutch has disengaged (as you are often coasting or on the brakes) so it takes a second for it to realise you want to get moving again and engages the clutch.

What I try and do now is just get the braking phase done a fraction earlier and get on the throttle very lightly before I want to get a move on. The gearbox realises that it should be providing drive, engages the clutch and then as soon as you want to go it goes.

I drove my Manual Focus for 6 years and at the sprightly age of 27 have no plans to own a manual ever again.

I love how much more relaxed I am in busy traffic and when I get home.

I love how I can slip it in to 5th on the motorway, let the box rev match (with no hint of judder/bumping) and then put the power down and because it's already in the turbo it just goes and goes. That's in my 1.8 TSI, I'd love to feel the 2.0 VRs.

Another thing that I've only just started doing at a set of lights is to ease off on the brake pedal when I'm expecting them to change. Not enough to let the car move, but enough to get the clutch half way there. Then when the lights change I'm not waiting on the clutch to go from full off to fully on and am much smoother away from the lights.

Very happy so far, however I will be getting the additional 2 years on the warranty when the remaining 16 months expire. Just in case.

[OCScene]

The issue with reversing up hill I think stems from the fact that if you don't use the throttle and just allow the car to creep, when you reach a certain incline the engine doesn't have enough to move the bulk of the car with no throttle input. So instead of stalling the engine, the DSG pulls the clutch and so you lose drive.

The way around that is to give it some throttle, but because it is the computer controlling the clutch it can take some getting used to. You can go from "is this thing in gear" to "I'm going to die and take Mrs Stevenson and her cat with me as I go through her front door" in the blink of an eye.

For me the thing to keep in mind is that if you touch the throttle before the clutch is engaged the engine is obviously going to rev, when you press the throttle and nothing happens you give it more throttle but nothing happened in the first place because the clutch wasn't there yet. When then box notices that you have lots of revs on and are not moving it drops the clutch double time and you'll go lurching. I've found that as long as I give the clutch time to fully engage all lurchiness is gone.

As for roundabouts, I've noticed what others have said about it hesitating but it almost seems like the clutch has disengaged (as you are often coasting or on the brakes) so it takes a second for it to realise you want to get moving again and engages the clutch.

What I try and do now is just get the braking phase done a fraction earlier and get on the throttle very lightly before I want to get a move on. The gearbox realises that it should be providing drive, engages the clutch and then as soon as you want to go it goes.

I drove my Manual Focus for 6 years and at the sprightly age of 27 have no plans to own a manual ever again.

I love how much more relaxed I am in busy traffic and when I get home.

I love how I can slip it in to 5th on the motorway, let the box rev match (with no hint of judder/bumping) and then put the power down and because it's already in the turbo it just goes and goes. That's in my 1.8 TSI, I'd love to feel the 2.0 VRs.

Another thing that I've only just started doing at a set of lights is to ease off on the brake pedal when I'm expecting them to change. Not enough to let the car move, but enough to get the clutch half way there. Then when the lights change I'm not waiting on the clutch to go from full off to fully on and am much smoother away from the lights.

Very happy so far, however I will be getting the additional 2 years on the warranty when the remaining 16 months expire. Just in case.

Perfectly put! Nuff said.

[BigAl820]

The issue with reversing up hill I think stems from the fact that if you don't use the throttle and just allow the car to creep, when you reach a certain incline the engine doesn't have enough to move the bulk of the car with no throttle input. So instead of stalling the engine, the DSG pulls the clutch and so you lose drive.

The way around that is to give it some throttle, but because it is the computer controlling the clutch it can take some getting used to. You can go from "is this thing in gear" to "I'm going to die and take Mrs Stevenson and her cat with me as I go through her front door" in the blink of an eye.

For me the thing to keep in mind is that if you touch the throttle before the clutch is engaged the engine is obviously going to rev, when you press the throttle and nothing happens you give it more throttle but nothing happened in the first place because the clutch wasn't there yet. When then box notices that you have lots of revs on and are not moving it drops the clutch double time and you'll go lurching. I've found that as long as I give the clutch time to fully engage all lurchiness is gone.

As for roundabouts, I've noticed what others have said about it hesitating but it almost seems like the clutch has disengaged (as you are often coasting or on the brakes) so it takes a second for it to realise you want to get moving again and engages the clutch.

What I try and do now is just get the braking phase done a fraction earlier and get on the throttle very lightly before I want to get a move on. The gearbox realises that it should be providing drive, engages the clutch and then as soon as you want to go it goes.

I drove my Manual Focus for 6 years and at the sprightly age of 27 have no plans to own a manual ever again.

I love how much more relaxed I am in busy traffic and when I get home.

I love how I can slip it in to 5th on the motorway, let the box rev match (with no hint of judder/bumping) and then put the power down and because it's already in the turbo it just goes and goes. That's in my 1.8 TSI, I'd love to feel the 2.0 VRs.

Another thing that I've only just started doing at a set of lights is to ease off on the brake pedal when I'm expecting them to change. Not enough to let the car move, but enough to get the clutch half way there. Then when the lights change I'm not waiting on the clutch to go from full off to fully on and am much smoother away from the lights.

Very happy so far, however I will be getting the additional 2 years on the warranty when the remaining 16 months expire. Just in case.

Many thanks for the above. I do a similar thing with my American slush box at the moment, release the brakes just before lights change and get off the brakes before reaching a roundabout to allow the hundreds of kilos of pig iron under the bonnet to realise I want to take power, giving it time to get itself in gear and go.