Car: 2003 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi, estate manual, 225k miles.

Went into limp mode yesterday after booting the car onto the motorway. Would not go past 3500 rpm and major loss of power. Got home and started this morning hoping that limp mode was the result of sticking turbo.

A huge amount of white smoke. Stopped the car, checked the oil, no oil on the dipstick! No warning lights or beeps from the console.

Has the head gasket gone? Have I bricked my car? Any help gratefuly recevied!

White smoke can be the result of a very cold start (It's unlikely in the UK in September but at least that proves that the smoke isn't a terminal diagnosis in itself).

It can also be the result of oil spraying onto a hot exhaust or through the turbine oil seals. This is more likely, but I'd associate it more with a hot turbine than a cold start. This can get through oil at frightening rates, possibly close to 1 gallon per mile.

So start by looking carefully for evidence of oil leaks, particularly on the back of the engine, and for oil dribbles at the exhaust outlet. In the case of the exhaust, sniff them to see if they're lubricant or diesel.

If you can't find any evidence of leaks from the block or head, check for evidence of oil contamination in the coolant, and/or for coolant loss.

If there's no evidence of leaks from the engine, or contaminated oil or water, it's probably not HGF.

I'd then suspect turbo bearing failure. As noted above, you almost certainly can't drive the car to a garage with that oil consumption (and a smoke screen that James Bond would envy).

Many thanks for the reply!

I've had a poke about and cannot find any evidence of an oil leak. So I'm looking at the turbo now.

Do I need to remove the whole thing in order to confirm that the turbo has a fault. I am pretty much a hopeless n00b when it comes to car mechanics. But I'm willing to learn!

UPDATE:

I've taken off the hose from the turbo to the intercooler and it was thick with black oil. So it looks like the turbo has failed.

Can this be fixed/repaired? I'm going to try and get the turbo off and take a closer look.

An exchange turbo will cost several hundred quid and is the safest way of repairing a blown unit.

So prove it first, by filling up with oil and getting someone with a VCDS to check boost levels. I think you've reached a stage where you can't do much more damage.

I disconnected the hose from the intercooler and started the car. No smoke. And I didn't see any oil coming out of the hose or any air flow. Not sure if any air should be flowing out of the hose - certainly plenty of suck going into the EGU valve (the hose out of the top of that is blocked off with a screw and inside it was totally coked up with thick black soot - same with the pipe going down into the exhaust manifold - not sure what that is all about).

Someone I know has recommended Turbo Solutions for a reconditioned turbo - about £350. So when I get this turbo off I will most probably call them.

When or perhaps if. One of the nuts on the exhaust manifold is stuck and started to round off so I've soaked it with WD40 and will leave it for the night.

PlusGas is better than WD40.

If your taking things off, then I guess you have the inlet manifold off. Give it a good clean, along with the EGR assembly. Many of us have blocked off the EGR supply (of exhaust fumes) back into the EGR assembly (it helps with emissions), and at the same time either fit a catch can to recirculate the air or catch ca to atmosphere (I skipped the catch can all together!)

It's off. Finally! Yes I did take the inlet manifold off. It's lined with thick soot and the EGR is completely coked up. Oil everwhere. Turbo completely knackered.

Can anyone tell me the best way to clean all the oil and crud out? Also, will I need to clean out the intercooler and if so how do I do that?

Expect to see a layer of black sooty/oily tar in the inlet manifold - this is normal, as it is a combination of EGR gasses and the warm oily air from the crank case being recirculated back into the air intake (just after the MAF).

I expect carb cleaner would work, when I did mine I used my mothers sink and washing up liquid and a toothbrush. Mr Muscle works well on turbos so he might be good on inlet manifolds too.

You will need to take the intercooler off then probably rinse it through and let it drain well.... have a search on here, sure other guys have cleaned their intercoolers.

Edited 4 September, 201213 yr by mbames

The egr and intake manifold on my car appears to be full of tar, so I wouldn't say that this automatically means your turbo has had it. Remember the crankcase breather is fed back into the intake after the air filter and then nicely mixed with sooty exhaust gases in the egr, causing allkinds of oily muck to accumulate in the pipework.

The egr and intake manifold on my car appears to be full of tar, so I wouldn't say that this automatically means your turbo has had it. Remember the crankcase breather is fed back into the intake after the air filter and then nicely mixed with sooty exhaust gases in the egr, causing allkinds of oily muck to accumulate in the pipework.

My reasoning for suspecting the turbo seals are to do with the reports suggesting low boost, high oil consumption and white smoke.

The egr and intake manifold on my car appears to be full of tar, so I wouldn't say that this automatically means your turbo has had it. Remember the crankcase breather is fed back into the intake after the air filter and then nicely mixed with sooty exhaust gases in the egr, causing allkinds of oily muck to accumulate in the pipework.

That's a very good point. I've now taken the turbo off and had a look at it. Even I can tell it's knackered The air compressor blades are bent and its wobbling all over the place. Oil was dripping out of the lower hose to the intercooler. A right mess. I've ordered a (£385 incl delivery and gasket kit) reconditioned turbo from Turbo Solutions - a chap in the motor trade recommended them to me. I did have a look at some new OEM turbos on eBay, but thought I would play it safe.

Edited 4 September, 201213 yr by polophonic

My reasoning for suspecting the turbo seals are to do with the reports suggesting low boost, high oil consumption and white smoke.

You were right Ken - see above: turbo totally shot.

Many thanks for everyone's comments and advice. This is a great forum, it's already saved me hundreds of pounds in garage costs!

Fair enough, that does sound rather conclusive.

The obvious question is why have the seals gone. You could have an issue with oil pressure or a blockage which is preventing oil reaching the turbo.

It would be the oil pickup in the sump is blocked or the feed pipe to the turbo is blocked, it may be worth changing both. Just changing the turbo is likely to lead to the new one failing if you don't identify the source of the problem.

It would be the oil pickup in the sump is blocked or the feed pipe to the turbo is blocked, it may be worth changing both. Just changing the turbo is likely to lead to the new one failing if you don't identify the source of the problem.

I would agree. While waiting for the new turbo to arrive, drain the oil, and drop the sump. It does not require a gasket for refitting but a thin bead of sealant (too much and it can block up the oil pickup).

You will need the following new gaskets:

- exhaust pipe-turbo

- exhaust manifold-engine

- inlet manifold-engine

- turbo oil return-pipe

Gasket cost is about £17 - I by chance spotted my invoice earlier today, but I also replaced all my vacuum hoses (bring the cost up to £22 from my local dealer)

and possibly if you bent it, a new oil supply pipe (check this isn't blocked or you new turbo may not be a happy bunny for long).

The obvious question is why have the seals gone. You could have an issue with oil pressure or a blockage which is preventing oil reaching the turbo.

It would be the oil pickup in the sump is blocked or the feed pipe to the turbo is blocked, it may be worth changing both. Just changing the turbo is likely to lead to the new one failing if you don't identify the source of the problem.

I think the oil supply is good. I discovered the problem because of all the white smoke pouring out the back and a drastic drop in oil level. That was caused by the turbo ingesting oil from the engine so it was definately getting enough oil! The problem was that it wasn't keeping hold of it

As to why it failed - the blades on the air compressor are very bent over. Perhaps something impacted them? Or that may have happened when the bearings failed and it started to flap about. The car has 225k miles on it now and I think this is the original turbo.

The recon turbo is on the car and the car is running!

However I now have a small oil leak. I did an oil change and have checked the sump plug. And the oil feed into and out of the turbo seem good (I was particularly parnoid about oil flow into the turbo...).

There is oil on the exhuast turbine side of the turbo with some oil near the exhaust manifold. I will do some more poking about but in the meantime does anyone have any suggestions?

The turbo doesn't have bearings, the oil acts as the bearings. Therefore if the damage was caused by movement of the shaft it might have been because it wasn't getting any oil.

If it was caused by the turbo ingesting something, what was it, where did it come from, is there more of it and where did all the bits go?

Anything broken off on the exhaust side has probably ended up in the cat, anything on the other side hopefully only got as far as the intercooler but if it gets past the intercooler and into the intake manifold you could have big problems.

The turbo doesn't have bearings, the oil acts as the bearings.

Let's examine this statement a little.

What constrains the oil to stay near enough the shaft for hydrondynamic film effects to occur? I think you'll find it's a bearing, just like in the mains and big ends, and the gearbox shafts. Oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger shows lots of turbochargers with bearing in them. Also, there's a really clear cutaway picture of a ball-bearing turbo in the current PPC.

Let's examine this statement a little.

What constrains the oil to stay near enough the shaft for hydrondynamic film effects to occur? I think you'll find it's a bearing, just like in the mains and big ends, and the gearbox shafts. Oh and http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbocharger shows lots of turbochargers with bearing in them. Also, there's a really clear cutaway picture of a ball-bearing turbo in the current PPC.

OK, so that wasn't quite what I meant. What I was trying to say was that the oil lubricates things and acts to hold fast spinning thing away from the stationary bit of the turbo (the turbos used on our engines don't have ball bearings AFAIK) and the lack of oil is the most likely cause of things going the shape of a pear.

They do that, run uncontrollably on their own oil when the turbo seals go. Had it happen to me last week whilst warming up a customers car in preparation for a diesel smoke test.

This car had only done 80,000 miles, but its usage pattern of 2 miles a day may have had something to do with it.

It was quite spectacular with the noise, plenty of smoke and the blind panic.

It was quite spectacular with the noise, plenty of smoke and the blind panic.

How did you stop it? Smother the air intake? P*ss on it?

OK, so that wasn't quite what I meant. What I was trying to say was that the oil lubricates things and acts to hold fast spinning thing away from the stationary bit of the turbo (the turbos used on our engines don't have ball bearings AFAIK) and the lack of oil is the most likely cause of things going the shape of a pear.

I could have been clearer; what I meant was that the oil seals for the bearings fail first, resulting in truly spectacular levels of oil consumption, and in short order an inability to maintain the oil film in the bearings.