When i said i "open it out on the motorway", i don't mean for miles at a time and not all the time either. If i come across something in lane 1, i always have the option of moving to lane 2.

I want to do one but I want one that is worth the money and I'll learn from. I know I've asked this before but what is definitively the best one to do at the moment?

name='Fitz323' timestamp='1348494874' post='2945257'] [/u]

I've considered it many times. What's your point?

Fitz

Martyn

Depends who there is in your area; either RoSPA (Or whatever they are called now) or the IAM.

I've experienced both, but gave up with the IAM because they seemed too "old fashioned" and a bit "fussy". For example, I was told that I shouldn't contemplate driving when it was snowing, even though they knew I was involved with 4x4 Response. RoSPA were much better (for me) and their "system" seemed more intuative.

I have also done 2 employer led courses, which although not as thorough, was still very useful. However the best, and most useful in many ways, was a weekend course to become a Rapid Responce Driver with St John that was done by Hereford & Worcester Ambulance and West Mercia Police.

Fitz,

Just interested to know how many people have actually bothered to get formal training, as from experience lots of people who think they are good find that they learn a lot when they actually do a course.

You 'generally' stick to 30 in areas with a 30 limit? Genius!

Don't come driving down my road please

Don't see a problem with this. I 'generally' stick to 30 limits as well.

However, I can't always reach that speed as it's not safe/clear to do so.

I want to do one but I want one that is worth the money and I'll learn from. I know I've asked this before but what is definitively the best one to do at the moment?

Following on from Llanigraham's post. I have experienced the IAM for both car and bikethe issue with them is that the observers are not formally trained, they will have passed their Advanced test and been guided by a Senior Observer and the Groups lead Observer. Some groups are really stuck in their ways and many have a high average age (not saying this is a good or bad thing) and there does seem to be a lack of real guidance by the central IAM hierarchy so can end up interpretting things their own way. Check out the IAM website for prices which will cover the registration, one years membership and your test. On top of this you will do runs with your allocated observer (or some groups may vary the observer rather than allocate one). The group may well do evening classes for a few weeks to take you through the philosophy and explain things more. Bst bet is to check out the website, find your local group and try them out. I didn't get on with some groups and the group I did my tests with were led by an idiot with his cronies making up the committee. I passed my test, tried to do the observer thing but got pi$$ed off with the lack of flexibility and didn't go back.

One thing that strikes me is the amount of people who say "I know I can drive safely at speed, it's other people...", or words to that effect, for something so subjective how do you quantify "safely" ?, is it because you've never crashed, or been in a situation where your reactions have never been tested ?, is a puncture at 3am on an Mway easier to control than a puncture at noon on a b road ?aren't there lots of racing drivers who could drive safely at speed.........until they crashed and died ?

I want to do one but I want one that is worth the money and I'll learn from. I know I've asked this before but what is definitively the best one to do at the moment?

The simple answer to this is "it depends". Things to consider are how much you want to spend and what you want to learn.

The cheapest (and possibly one of the most fun options) is to sign up to AD-UK and look out for a "mentor" who is nearby. The idea behind the "scheme" is to offer informal drives with volunteers who can give you feedback on your driving. It's based on Roadcraft but there's no test or syllabus. Agreat way of experiencing a driving enthusiasts take on advanced driving and find out what it's all about.

Costing a little more, there are the "formal" organisations RoADAR and IAM who are both charities offering driver training - each have their own syllabus, again based on Roadcraft, that are near enough identical and as mentioned above, the quality of coaching/observing will be down to the group/observer you sign up with. Cost is not huge (and there are discounts for those under 25) and if you go down the IAM route there is the Surety car insurance scheme which is meant to be good, although I have no direct experience of it. The cost includes as many drives as it takes to get you to test standard, the test and the first year's membership (and usually a copy of Roadcraft). Find out which groups are near you and go and visit them or ask to be taken out by one of their observers to find out what it's all about before committing.

And then at the top of the cost scale, you have the professional driving coaches (mostly ex class 1 police). Lots to choose from such as RideDrive and very close to you Clive Jones (ex head of the South Wales driving school) but you'll be looking at a few hundred quid for a day with them and the cost will go up if you're looking for use of off-road facilities such as skid pan, proving ground, etc.

Imho, if you want to go down the Roadcraft route, there's no point paying top dollar to someone to have the basics instilled and for that IAM/RoADAR are a bargain and will enable you to build a good foundation, provided you ask lots of questions and don't take anything at face value - the worst kind of observers/tutors are those who tell you you need to do something because that's what the examiner expects or the group demands without explaining the reasons for it so you can make up your own mind about whether it's a good thing or not, or at least be confident enough to seek a second opinion. After all, if you don't believe an approach is the best way to do something, chances are when the observer's not in the car you won't do it.

Chris

Here's one of my local roads which makes for a great drive

Some areas are a little deteriorated and apart from the occassional wildlife/ tractor it's more or less empty.

It's got twists and turns and is great fun :-D

Daisy, quite. It's like the people who say they have never had an accident, but have seen lots behind them!!

Chris, the one thing I found was that RoADAR were cheaper, and made up of younger people, and didn't seem so rule-bound. They stuck to Roadcraft but also were able to "blend" it into everyday situations, whereas the IAM group I dealt with were absolute "the rule is the Rule".

I want to do one but I want one that is worth the money and I'll learn from. I know I've asked this before but what is definitively the best one to do at the moment?

Following on again from other posts, the IAM test examiner is a police class 1 driver, either current or retired, I think that ROSPA is likely to be the same but don't know for sure.

While you will be expected to make progress, braking any speed limit will be an automatic fail (or it was when I did my test). Also you will be expected to drive at a speed appropriate for the road. On my car test we were going down a B road which although pretty straight was quite bumpy, I was happy to do about 40, examiner asked what the limit was and I said 60 but going any faster would unsettle the car and make a very uncomfortable ride. He was happy with that and went on to say he had done it with a female previously who after the question tried to get up to 60 on it. So while you need to know the limits you also need to judge the most appropriate limit for the road and then use the lesser of the two.

After doing the training and the tests I was probably overall as quick down a road but without the need to speed or brake hard into and accelerate hard out of corners. Made a real improvement to my confidence in overtakes as well due to being able to read the road better. Would recommend people do some form of post test training, even if it is just a refresher.

I started out with RoADAR because they were cheaper but looking back am frustrated by my observer's attitude of getting people to the minimum standard needed and then putting them in for test. A few years later when I did IAM, courtesy of my last employer, I discovered that he was also the chief observer for that group, so his loyalties may well have been split. My experience of IAM was similar to yours and despite being test ready on my first drive, my observer insisted on doing 8 drives because that's what he did with all his associates. Saying that, though, my IAM test was much more fun than the RoADAR one.

Horses for courses

Chris

Chris, the one thing I found was that RoADAR were cheaper, and made up of younger people, and didn't seem so rule-bound. They stuck to Roadcraft but also were able to "blend" it into everyday situations, whereas the IAM group I dealt with were absolute "the rule is the Rule".

I came across some of the IAM like that but many I dealt with (more the bike crowd) were about real world situations and being able to understand the reasoning behind rules/methods/techniques so that you can prioritise them correctly in different situations. If you do not have a questioning attitude and a stubborness to not take the 'we always do it that way' as a reasonable answer then you will probably get through the test but miss out on the real benefits. I was always the one asking the questions during our group training and by the end the lecturer winced when he saw me!

I came across some of the IAM like that but many I dealt with (more the bike crowd) were about real world situations and being able to understand the reasoning behind rules/methods/techniques so that you can prioritise them correctly in different situations. If you do not have a questioning attitude and a stubborness to not take the 'we always do it that way' as a reasonable answer then you will probably get through the test but miss out on the real benefits. I was always the one asking the questions during our group training and by the end the lecturer winced when he saw me!

What me?

You must be joking!!

Everything gets questioned!! :think:

However the best, and most useful in many ways, was a weekend course to become a Rapid Responce Driver with St John that was done by Hereford & Worcester Ambulance and West Mercia Police.

Did this involve driving in excess of the speed limits on blues n twos? Was it only one weekend?

What me?

You must be joking!!

Everything gets questioned!! :think:

Not aimed at anyone, just a general comment about my take on getting the best from it.

Did this involve driving in excess of the speed limits on blues n twos? Was it only one weekend?

It provided training to "make progress", including the relevant use of speed taking into account traffic and road conditions, road positioning, use of junctions including traffic lights whilst under "blues", and our legal responsibilities, which included the breaking of speed limits. At the time I did it was from friday evening until sunday evening, including an accomanied driving examiniation with West Mercia police driving examiner, including under blues.

I understand that the current SJA requirements are slightly higher.

It provided training to "make progress", including the relevant use of speed taking into account traffic and road conditions, road positioning, use of junctions including traffic lights whilst under "blues", and our legal responsibilities, which included the breaking of speed limits. At the time I did it was from friday evening until sunday evening, including an accomanied driving examiniation with West Mercia police driving examiner, including under blues.

I understand that the current SJA requirements are slightly higher.

This is what annoys me, it's not just the SJA but mountain rescue, RNLI etc they all do this, it should be minimum of a 3 week course, there's no way you can be proper trained in 2 1/2 days. I've seen some truly terrible driving by these organisations and I've seen a SJA volunenteer get annoyed at cars blocking his path when on a blue light run as he thought blue lights gave him the right of way in all things.

Edited 25 September, 201213 yr by mdon

To me it's always about driving to the conditions.

We regularly go to Germany and on the unrestricted sections I just drive to the conditions. If I so happen to be going fast then so be it.

It's nice to spend less time worrying about breaking the speed limit and just driving.

I'm going to be the first in this thread... This wasn't an effort to go as fast as possible and I had no idea what speed I was doing at the time. It was on a very empty and clear Sunday morning following (at great distance) the general flow of traffic which included a couple of Mercs and Audis up ahead. Checked afterwards to see how long it had taken and noticed the top speed.

There should only be an issue with people driving fast if the conditions don't allow and/or it is done recklessly.

This is what annoys me, it's not just the SJA but mountain rescue, RNLI etc they all do this, it should be minimum of a 3 week course, there's no way you can be proper trained in 2 1/2 days. I've seen some truly terrible driving by these organisations and I've seen a SJA volunenteer get annoyed at cars blocking his path when on a blue light run as he thought blue lights gave him the right of way in all things.

Then complain to the Dept of Transport.

We were told that an SJA. Red Cross, MR or Rally Rescue Ambulance has the same "rights" as any other Ambulance when on a blue light run.

I think the training now is much longer, certainly in Wales.

I have a 90 bhp diesel, just upgraded to 110 injectors, and man i can tell you i drive around at sometimes quite normal speeds, if i push her a bit.

Then complain to the Dept of Transport.

We were told that an SJA. Red Cross, MR or Rally Rescue Ambulance has the same "rights" as any other Ambulance when on a blue light run.

So, other than the right to use flashing and/or pulsating blue warning beacons, and to use approved 2-tone horns and/or sirens and/or "yelpers", none at all.

Then complain to the Dept of Transport.

We were told that an SJA. Red Cross, MR or Rally Rescue Ambulance has the same "rights" as any other Ambulance when on a blue light run.

I think the training now is much longer, certainly in Wales.

They do but the blue lights do not give you the right of way and are not there to bully other road users out of the way, they are a Courtesy signal alerting people to your presence only, the same goes for any other emergency vehicle.

Agreed, which is excactly what I was trained, but your initial point came over as none of these groups should have the right to use blue lights.

Agreed, which is excactly what I was trained, but your initial point came over as none of these groups should have the right to use blue lights.

I do feel that with the level of training they receive none of these groups should be allowed to use exemptions.

What a great thread !

A 3 pager & I have read every post.

Without sounding too wet.... this is what "Briskoda" does best, lots of differing opinions with grown ups letting everyone have their say....and then disagreeing !

Well done folks..

mdon,

Do you know exactly what the current training is?

I certainly don't, but I do know that many "County" Ambulance Services now use the voluntary bodies as back-up, and provide them with training.

Also how do you expect them to provide First Aid and front line facilities if they don't use Blue lights? The "County" aren't able to do it.

When I first started with SJA the only blue training was done within the Division, with no actual formal training sylabus. It then went up to our County level where it was done by an ex-Police instructor, but again nothing formal. Only when Worcestershire started providing the "County" Ambulance Service with PTS and emergency cover did a more formal arrangement occur with both West Mercia Police and the County Ambulance.