I am waiting on delivery of a new Octavia VRS and considering taking an advanced test to brush up and check my skills (or lack of!) and I just wondered if I could do that with a DSG gearbox.

Paul

Yes, you can.

Yes.

I'm trying to work out why the OP thinks you might not?

To offer a little expansion on the answers given, the advanced driving course applies to both manual and automatic cars (there is no distinction in teh qualification as there is in the DSA) and you'll be expected to demonstrate getting the best out of whichever vehicle you take to test. In an automatic, this will likely involve demonstrating overriding the gearbox to hold gears, eg when travelling downhill, or selecting a lower gear when preparing for an overtake rather than relying on kickdown.

I notice you're in London too - if you fancy going out for a drive sometime drop me a PM and I'd be happy to give you some feedback...

Chris

Thanks Chris. I was hoping that was the case. I'd just seen a couple of test results on here and they mentioned clutch control on them so just thought I'd check. Thanks for the offer too. I rode motorbikes for years without dying so hope I have reasonable road sense. I definitely feel like I need to brush up my car skills though so I'll take you up on that once I'm feeling comfortable with the new car. I'm up near Barnet. Whereabouts are you?

Paul

Sounds good to me - I'm currently in West London but I think we may have to travel a couple of miles if we want to find some more interesting/fun roads

Chris

Looks like you've got it covered, Chris, so I'll just hit like and leave you to it.

Hopefully the weather will be better than today for your outing?

More than happy to travel a few miles. I'll be in touch Chris. Cheers.

Paul

I had an IAM demo drive a while ago in an old style Auto (1, 2, D, etc) and he was using the 1 and 2 manual options quite a bit, so I would assume that there is no issue but you are likely to be expected to use manual mode rather than D.

While I was waiting for deliery of my car I posted on the IAM forum for any guidance on DSG and there does not appear to be any official line from the IAM. Therefore I'd want to now the reasoning behind advice you get so that you can apply it correctly and understand why it is done such a way.

Looks like you've got it covered, Chris, so I'll just hit like and leave you to it.

I'm more than happy to share - I think exposure to different drivers (and driving styles) is an education in itself

I had an IAM demo drive a while ago in an old style Auto (1, 2, D, etc) and he was using the 1 and 2 manual options quite a bit, so I would assume that there is no issue but you are likely to be expected to use manual mode rather than D.

While I was waiting for deliery of my car I posted on the IAM forum for any guidance on DSG and there does not appear to be any official line from the IAM. Therefore I'd want to now the reasoning behind advice you get so that you can apply it correctly and understand why it is done such a way.

I suspect that may say more about the IAM forum rather than what the examiners are looking for Imho, the examiner is looking for you to demonstrate that you can get the best out of the car so you may be marked down where you are overriding the gearbox unnecessarily and the simple test is running through IPSGA on approach to a hazard and considering the box's choice of gear as you would when driving a manual. On top of that it's also woth considering if an up-change when accelerating through and out of the hazard is likely to be detrimental as well.

Interestingly when I've driven a friend's "classic" 3-speed auto, I haven't (so far) encountered situations where I found overriding the gear box provided any real benefit, although the car is capable of 60mph in 1st and 100mph in 2nd and is always pretty responsive when you bury the throttle Quite different to modern autos!

Chris

I suspect that may say more about the IAM forum rather than what the examiners are looking for

Interestingly when I've driven a friend's "classic" 3-speed auto, I haven't (so far) encountered situations where I found overriding the gear box provided any real benefit, although the car is capable of 60mph in 1st and 100mph in 2nd and is always pretty responsive when you bury the throttle

Could be right. Them in the Ivory tower don't say very much. However there are quite a few people on the forum and while there was some advice from them it is just advice, nothing concrete. You are right that it is all about what the Examiner wants, however most groups (or the ones I have been with) have a good relationship with their regional examiner and attend various seminars where topics like this are discussed.

Times when overriding could be used are say on a down hill stretch where a lower gear is better to hold the speed rather than using the brakes or when preparing for an overtake as the kick down can add a delay. But again I agree that in most situations there is actually little if any benefit to be gained from being in manual and in some instances D is better as you are not having to think about gearing.

Yes, as mentioned by others, you will be expected to demonstrate the full capabilities of the gearbox and that you can use it in manual mode as well.

My local group had a talk on this a while back and one of the things that was mentioned was that the examiner, being an ex/current Class 1, will expect hard accerlation at NSL's (sports mode)

My local group had a talk on this a while back and one of the things that was mentioned was that the examiner, being an ex/current Class 1, will expect hard accerlation at NSL's (sports mode)

Why is this compulsory? "Good driving" includes not stressing the engine and drive line unnecessarily, and an NSL sign means "you may drive at up to $NSL" rather than "you must accelerate from $restricted_speed to $NSL as fast as possible".

Imho, this is something that is not compulsory. What the examiner is looking for is recognition of a change to a higher limit and a positive response to that by driving up to the new limit where it is safe to do so. The positive response needs to be "some acceleration".

Of course, in a perfect world he would like to see firm acceleration and full use of the vehicle's performance to maximise progress because they (the majority of them?) are driving enthusiasts and this is a trait of their ideal driver, but it doesn't mean that if you don't use firm acceleration you will be marked down. After all, most chauffeurs would fall into the latter category.

Chris

I was going by videos I've seen, where the response to exiting a 30 seemed to be to downshift into second and use full throttle. You'd certainly hear the engine note deepen as I accelerate (subject to the road ahead being clear). I just don't see the point in doing Carlos Fandango stuff daily, being more concerned with "making adequate progress".

I just don't see the point in doing Carlos Fandango stuff daily, being more concerned with "making adequate progress".

And conversely, I don't see the point in bimbling along a road and so if it's safe to do so, I look to make maximum progress. It may cost me a bit more a year in fuel (although my car is still doing 50mpg), wear and tear and brake pads, but, for me, smiles per mile trumps being rich and miserable any day of the week

Chris

And conversely, I don't see the point in bimbling along a road and so if it's safe to do so, I look to make maximum progress. It may cost me a bit more a year in fuel (although my car is still doing 50mpg), wear and tear and brake pads, but, for me, smiles per mile trumps being rich and miserable any day of the week

Chris

Up here, trying to do 60 (where sightlines permit) is a lot more work than doing 50ish (and very few people catch me at 50ish; more usually I catch people who I'd let past*, and then got stuck behind someone doing 40 and not letting them past): Carlos Fandango is the guy who has to be right on the limit everywhere even though it just means he catches other people and then I catch him back up). And how much time can I save by doing 60 rather than 50 for 10 miles? What doI do with the extra minute?

* "Let past" is used advisedly; several miles of my commute is on single-track roads.

Edited 28 September, 201212 yr by KenONeill

Imho, this is something that is not compulsory. What the examiner is looking for is recognition of a change to a higher limit and a positive response to that by driving up to the new limit where it is safe to do so. The positive response needs to be "some acceleration".

Of course, in a perfect world he would like to see firm acceleration and full use of the vehicle's performance to maximise progress because they (the majority of them?) are driving enthusiasts and this is a trait of their ideal driver, but it doesn't mean that if you don't use firm acceleration you will be marked down. After all, most chauffeurs would fall into the latter category.

Chris

This is what I meant to say

By expect, I meant what the examiner would like you to do... as you say, most of them are driving enthusiasts, and if you are doing a test in a tasty car like a vRS then you really need to be showing how you can lay down the power in a safe (and enjoyable) way.

I wouldn't do this in normal day to day driving either, but on a test it helps to put a good impression across to the examiner.

On my test, my examiner told me that becuase he was ex class 1 and used to driving at high speed, he wouldn't have any problem with going above NSL's if its safe to do so (probably not so much in my old 1.2 which I did my test with!) and might tell me to go faster if he felt it was too slow for him.

If you continually drive above the speed limit on the IAM Advanced Driving car test it should be an automatic fail - and that is from the Chief Examiner (and also our local Examiner who is, as are all IAM examiners, a serving or ex-police Class1 driver). He also said that with the 'clever electronics' in modern DSG type gearboxes the need to use manual mode was reducing. He is giving a talk to our local IAM group next month so that will be a chance for me to ask him some questions.

+1^^^^^ - that's what I've been told too (I've just started my course). At least you won't have the pain of doing block changes on a manual 6 speed wide ratio box!

I passed my IAM test in an Alfa 156 manual and learned a lot during the test, the examiner was brilliant. We discussed gearboxes and the over ride facility on an auto.  I moved onto a Mercedes CLK which in my opinion was the best auto I had driven but did require manual intervention, for example on long steep descents.

 

Our Superb is a DSG and the box is brilliant. Every time I go down one particular hill I wonder what the examiner would suggest as the box selects the gear I would have used if I manually over rode (in this case 3rd).

 

I have driven the (diesel) Superb down Porlock hill where the autobox selected a gear which meant little braking was required. Our Audi TT on the same hill required significant braking even getting into second gear.

 

So:

 

DSG - over ride on IAM test even if not necessary?

 

Highish tune (225 bhp out of 1.8 litres) turbocharged engines - is it because they lack the compression of a diesel that there is less engine braking?

I have trained drivers in automatics who just left the gearbox in "D" and they passed no problem. With some autos however, when going down a steep hill, if it is likely to run away from you too easily, the selection of a lower gear in manual mode is good advice. Then at the bottom  of the hill, go back into "D" mode.

On the subject of making progress, if you are leaving a low speed limit into a NSL, I train my drivers to make good use of the vehicles performance where safe, to get up to speed as quickly as possible. It shows you know the limit has increased, you know it is safe to do so and you have the confidence to get a move on. Make sure you don't go over the limit mind, as speeding as we know is breaking the law and is usually a failure of the test. You might only have an excuse to speed if that is the best option to get you clear from a possible impact from another road user. Especially important in built up areas to be spot on with your speed to the signed limit. By the way, I work for the I.A.M. as a fleet trainer.

The DSG box selects appropriate gears in MHO. On a nearby hill it selects 3rd and revs around 3k, 2nd would cause too high a rev range, ergo, I suspect that most of the time the GSG knows best.

 

During my last test I didn't have cruise, which in the Superb operates from quite a low speed, I use it a great deal - I wonder how that would be seen?

The DSG box selects appropriate gears in MHO. On a nearby hill it selects 3rd and revs around 3k, 2nd would cause too high a rev range, ergo, I suspect that most of the time the GSG knows best.

 

During my last test I didn't have cruise, which in the Superb operates from quite a low speed, I use it a great deal - I wonder how that would be seen?

This below is the advice direct from the I.A.M.Roadsmart advanced driving manual.

 

"Cruise control takes a little getting used to, but is a useful tool, especially on long journeys,as it delivers a smoother ride and better fuel economy.Consider using the SET function in speed limited areas to avoid inadvertent speeding. Simply set the control to the relevent limit, then use RESUME to accelerate to the exact speed.Turn your cruise control off in poor weather conditions as you'll need total "manual" control".

 

In other words in reasonable weather conditions, if you are happy using it, use it. Personally when I as an I.A.M. trainer, drive my own vehicle, I tend to leave my cruise control alone. I guess I am a bit "old school". It is an individual decision, as there is no right or wrong.