It seems a controversial subject this, and as I wanted to be sure before retro-fitting new HiD lights to my Fabia, I called 3 different MoT garages askingthe following question:

"Are headlamp washers and auto-levelling required if HiDs are retro-fitted in order to pass an Mot test?"

Three completely different responses.

Garage 1) said that they would fail a car without auto-levelling & washers if HiDs were fitted to it, explaining that they interpreted the new MoT regs. to mean that IF auto-levelling & washers were fitted then they had to be working but obviously if they were not fitted then they couldn't be tested. However, the choice of whether or not to fit auto-levelling & washers only applied if HiDs were not fitted, and they repeated that if HiDs were fitted then it was compulsory to fit a/l & washers. FAIL.

Garage 2) said that the only requirements of the headlamps were that they were the correct colour and were aligned correctly. They would not be in the least concerned about whether auto-levelling or washers were fitted or not. PASS.

Garage 3) said that if they MoT'd a car fitted with HiDs which did not have a/l or headlamp washers then they would pass the car but issue an advisory to that effect. PASS.

So, there you have it - three different responses and in each case I spoke to the mechanic who did the MoT testing, not the receptionist or any other un-qualified person.

So, the best advice would be to ask for the garage's interpretation of the new rules before getting the test done, and if their response is another version of Garage 1) then go elsewhere.

Mine passed with the projector headlights and the associated HID kit. No worries.

In my opinion garage 1 is wrong.

The testers manual says:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given. Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.

The reason for rejection applicable to washers/levelling is:

A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.

Which begs the question 'If it isn't there, how can it be considered defective?'

Provided that the aim, colour and beam image was correct the tester can't fail it.

fit them and take them to garage 2 or 3 i say. if you have a mot and get pulled just tell them your garage passed it with no issues.

I don't see the Issue of needing washers and levelling tbh, but I failed without them so that's it really.

In my opinion garage 1 is wrong.

Not if they are going off the old manual before this section was revised; but in theory they shouldnt be, so they are incorrect.

The MOT centres in NI go by the old wording and will fail the car if there are no washers, seems that auto leveling can be ignored however.

I don't see the Issue of needing washers and levelling tbh, but I failed without them so that's it really.

The leveling is due to trying not to dazzle on comers.

The washers I agree with you, i had them on my old 182 and TBH they wouldnt wash anything off the light.

The leveling is due to trying not to dazzle on comers.

The washers I agree with you, i had them on my old 182 and TBH they wouldnt wash anything off the light.

The levelling only works on start up I believe so doesn't actually adjust as you drive. All I'm saying is I still get dazzled by OEM Xenons from time to time like on hills etc which tells me the levelling doesn't adjust as you drive. And surely having a boot full of stuff won't point the nose up that much, anyway I still failed lol any chance of NI going by the new wording?

if you have a mot and get pulled just tell them your garage passed it with no issues......

Not quite. Police can read advisory notices (on their computers) which are issued with MoT passes and may or may not take it further whether or not you tell them "it passed with no issues...."

Garage 1 IS wrong.. i went on my MOT refresher course last month + asked them this exact question.

There answer was exactly the same as i have always said:

Washers + level adjusters MAY be fitted..

If they are fitted then they must be tested..

If they are NOT fitted they cannot be tested + thus cannot be failed.

Garage 1 has read between the lines. Every test should be the same. At every MOT station. The test has to follow the guidlines given. If something isnt written in the guidlines then it cannot be failed - SIMPLES!!

Interpreting is one thing but reading something that isnt there is another ...

Also if a tester is in ANY doubt as to whether an item would fail or not then the official VOSA stance is they should always ADVISE unless they are certain it is a fail.. + in the case of garage 1. They have "interpreted" without being 100% certain... so they should ADVISE... NOT fail

MOT rant over lol

Not if they are going off the old manual before this section was revised;

They should be using the manual on the VTS device (MOT computer) and not some old hard copy they've got stuffed in a box in the testing station. The OP is in England, so I'm assuming we're talking mainland MOT regulations, which I happen to know quite well.

if you have a mot and get pulled just tell them your garage passed it with no issues.

That's why things get advised, I'd like to see the owner of a car I tested last week with illegally tinted front windows try that, when I advised it on the MOT.

HID's again????????

I actually just ditched my hid kit with 4300k's in it cos i took em out briefly and put in osram nightbreaker plus..........and they are better! Maybe not quite as bright but more visibility and a fuller look to what i was seeing. hid's are pretty but i dont think in standard lights they can compete with good expensive bulbs

They should be using the manual on the VTS device (MOT computer) and not some old hard copy they've got stuffed in a box in the testing station. The OP is in England, so I'm assuming we're talking mainland MOT regulations, which I happen to know quite well.

That's why things get advised, I'd like to see the owner of a car I tested last week with illegally tinted front windows try that, when I advised it on the MOT.

ok go to number 2 as they will pass with no advisory

The levelling only works on start up I believe so doesn't actually adjust as you drive. All I'm saying is I still get dazzled by OEM Xenons from time to time like on hills etc which tells me the levelling doesn't adjust as you drive. And surely having a boot full of stuff won't point the nose up that much, anyway I still failed lol any chance of NI going by the new wording?

Cant see them changing unfortunately, did you get the pic i posted in your MOT thread of the Subaru that passed with a botched set of washers?

As for the self leveling it does as you drive, you can ask some of the lads that have done an OEM conversion i think I read of a few on here, as there is a switch that is connected to the rear beam that will adjust as you mount hills etc.

Certainly this is the case in my mates with factory xenons and my Clio and ST focus were there same.

Garage 1 IS wrong.. i went on my MOT refresher course last month + asked them this exact question.

There answer was exactly the same as i have always said:

Washers + level adjusters MAY be fitted..

If they are fitted then they must be tested..

If they are NOT fitted they cannot be tested + thus cannot be failed.

Garage 1 has read between the lines. Every test should be the same. At every MOT station. The test has to follow the guidlines given. If something isnt written in the guidlines then it cannot be failed - SIMPLES!!

Interpreting is one thing but reading something that isnt there is another ...

Also if a tester is in ANY doubt as to whether an item would fail or not then the official VOSA stance is they should always ADVISE unless they are certain it is a fail.. + in the case of garage 1. They have "interpreted" without being 100% certain... so they should ADVISE... NOT fail

MOT rant over lol

I think after this quote above, this thread may as well be locked. Here speak'eth the voice of experience. N'uff said!

[almost tempted to lock it to be honest]

The levelling only works on start up I believe so doesn't actually adjust as you drive. All I'm saying is I still get dazzled by OEM Xenons from time to time like on hills etc which tells me the levelling doesn't adjust as you drive. And surely having a boot full of stuff won't point the nose up that much, anyway I still failed lol any chance of NI going by the new wording?

On your comments on levelling systems, that is not true, all self levelling systems will have a height, or suspension compression sensor at each end - and that feeds back info to the headlight aim adjusters. The main problem with projector lenses is that when "you" go off the perfect "axis" dazzle is likely and with HID lights this is a real problem due to the nature of these "bulbs" - ie high intensity.

The levelling only works on start up I believe so doesn't actually adjust as you drive.

Not quite true. On my Octavia with factory Xenons, they level in response to suspension compression......so a boot load of stuff would automatically aim the HIDs down. Also if you drive down a undulating bumpy road, you can see the headlight beams adjust in response.

However they do not adjust on hills, hence the dazzling you experience. However I regularly get dazzled by regular halogen headlights when they are cresting a hill that I am approaching, so that's a universal problem.

Edited 2 November, 201213 yr by booke23

Cant see them changing unfortunately, did you get the pic i posted in your MOT thread of the Subaru that passed with a botched set of washers?

As for the self leveling it does as you drive, you can ask some of the lads that have done an OEM conversion i think I read of a few on here, as there is a switch that is connected to the rear beam that will adjust as you mount hills etc.

Certainly this is the case in my mates with factory xenons and my Clio and ST focus were there same.

I didn't see it? :S

On your comments on levelling systems, that is not true, all self levelling systems will have a height, or suspension compression sensor at each end - and that feeds back info to the headlight aim adjusters. The main problem with projector lenses is that when "you" go off the perfect "axis" dazzle is likely and with HID lights this is a real problem due to the nature of these "bulbs" - ie high intensity.

I do have the projector Lenses

Not quite true. On my Octavia with factory Xenons, they level in response to suspension compression......so a boot load of stuff would automatically aim the HIDs down. Also if you drive down a undulating bumpy road, you can see the headlight beams adjust in response.

However they do not adjust on hills, hence the dazzling you experience. However I regularly get dazzled by regular halogen headlights when they are cresting a hill that I am approaching, so that's a universal problem.

Yeh dazzling is a universal issue, think its a bit odd all the fuss on Xenons for being a bit brighter :(

My plan is to eventually wack some washers on. Mainly because I like the look of them, not massively fussed with the self levelling, I can adjust the nob myself.

Yeh dazzling is a universal issue, think its a bit odd all the fuss on Xenons for being a bit brighter :(

I'm with you there.

Although to be fair, the factory HID's on my Octavia are at least twice as bright as the halogens on my Fabia. So maybe that's why all the fuss

I am very tempted with a HID conversion on my Fabia, although I worry that it might be a bit naff with just H7R HID's in a reflector lens......I suspect the projector lens in the factory unit makes the HID's much more effective with the ultra sharp cut off and super accurate beam spread.

I'm with you there.

Although to be fair, the factory HID's on my Octavia are at least twice as bright as the halogens on my Fabia. So maybe that's why all the fuss

I am very tempted with a HID conversion on my Fabia, although I worry that it might be a bit naff with just H7R HID's in a reflector lens......I suspect the projector lens in the factory unit makes the HID's much more effective with the ultra sharp cut off and super accurate beam spread.

Get some of the Xenon lamps from the group buy, definately worth the investment

I am very tempted with a HID conversion on my Fabia, although I worry that it might be a bit naff with just H7R HID's in a reflector lens......I suspect the projector lens in the factory unit makes the HID's much more effective with the ultra sharp cut off and super accurate beam spread.

I went from a kit into my reflectors to the projector setup, its like night and day! Really surprised at the difference, before it felt like there was loads of light but it was just thrown everywhere. The projectors make the light much more focused in the areas that its needed. Well worth it imo.

I went from a kit into my reflectors to the projector setup, its like night and day! Really surprised at the difference, before it felt like there was loads of light but it was just thrown everywhere. The projectors make the light much more focused in the areas that its needed. Well worth it imo.

That's interesting.....and what I suspected. What projector kit did you use?