BT's Christmas Carol - or you can wait 'til your hoop freezes over

[Clunkclick]

After my most recent customer experience with BT I will be recommending to Mr Warren Buckley (Director of Customer Service) and his fellow directors of BT that the organisation takes up this Xmas carol as it Corporate song:-

After several months of suffering repeated written requests from Mr Buckeley (Or more correctly someone acting on his behalf) coupled with incessant cold calling imploring me to dump BTs Total Broadband Service and take-up iInfinity 1, at apparently no extra cost, I relented and yesterday ordered Infinity using BTs web-site facility. As many of you may recall from my previous recent post, I did have concerns that BT wouldn't be able to meet the data download rate of 40mbps advertised on its website (Because there was contradictory data, specifying only a 14Mbps download rate, on their own FTTC database).And you will also recall that being a long-term customer of BT (27 years) I wasn't overjoyed with the prospect of paying a one-off application fee of £25 and a fee of £6.95 for the delivery of the Home Hub 3 Modem. Nevertheless, I thought I might as well take-up the offer as it seemed to be for better service for no increase in cost.

The on-line documentation that was created prior to me completing the order did in fact specify 40Mbps dowmload and a go-live date of 12th November 2012. So, on the basis of this information, completed the order. I immediately got an E-mail confirmation back confirming receipt.

And then today I receive another E-mail stating that the modem will not arrive until just before Christmas and that the engineer will not be round to fit it until just after Xmas.

Is this standard lead-time for NW London ? If it is Mr Buckeley et al should be told.

I can't think that BT country wide go out of their way to irritate customers in this way or provide such ****e poor consideration to the customer ?

Nick

Edited 6 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[@Lee]

here we go again :think:

[Clunkclick]

Not without cause. But this time I will be writing to the directors. Businessmen. Huh ! Government approved **** Turpins.

Happy for anybody else to pop-up with horror stories cincerning other suppliers who promise and then break it, as if cintract law means nothing.

We've had "Too big to fail" and now we've got the sequel "Too big to be arsed to supply".

Nick.

[@Lee]

Look, Nick, may I call you Nick, Nick? Nick, I've been with BT for eight years now. I play them against themselves. I pay either in full, or DD, whichever suits my needs at the time (DD's can be cancelled and the reinstated FYI) When renewal time comes around, I shop around on 'tinterweb for a cheaper provider. Armed with this info, I ask to be connected to the 'Customer Retention' team. Amazing what they'll do, if you haggle

[Clunkclick]

Last time I attempted to try that approach I got stitched-up by some super smooth customer service type.

Why should I have to waste my time playing some chekovian bureaucratic game of marketeers devise. Stuff 'em.

No, directors and regulator and Watchdog will get a letter.

Everything they do on the account management side seems designed to iiritate the hell out of the customers.

Roll on Amazon taking over domestic telecoms. An orgganisation you can trust.

I recall that I had similar problems when I switched from their 1 MBPs broadband to 5 MBps Total Broadband and withholding quarterly bill payment did the job then - swift appointment of a senior manager to resolve my account issues.

Nick

Edited 6 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[andypandypoos]

if you think BT are that **** why've you been with them for 27 years? are you a ******* idiot?

[cheezemonkhai]

Have you thought about ending your contract at a cost and going to another provider who are better if it's so bad?

[RainbowFire]

Here we go again (popcorn icon goes here)

[RainbowFire]

Have you thought about ending your contract at a cost and going to another provider who are better if it's so bad?

Why? That would mean having to do something other than complain to the car group about how bad the telephone people are. ;)

[Chris]

I've had a couple of issues with BT but resolved pretty quickly. We dont have a lot of choice for broadband here and the best speed is around 1.5mb. We have bt broadband option 2 with a 40gb usage allowance which I was sold on a very reduced rate. £11 a month after upgrading from option 1 and threatening to leave. I was happy...saving some cash! Roll on October this year and I realise the discount has come off..since August. I rang and queried and was told it was a 12 month contract and that the discount ended. Immediately the lady advised she was going to resolve and worked out a further 12 months at just £8.20 a month!! With no haggling and a refund from August for the difference.

BT are not all bad!

[Clunkclick]

No.. A letter will do.

A two month delay in delivery isn't acceptable, especially when I was invited to make the contract on the basis that delivery would be within two weeks.

You can waste your waking hours conversing with the agents of the psuedo compettition (Customer Service). I got better things to do. IMHO all you do by engaging with such a system is further contribute to a system designed to progressively deprive you of your consumer rights.

You never find out what the true market price of anything because you are being offered phoney discounts all the time (Which some other ciustomer has to pay for) or told to switch supplier, who operates on the same phoney basis, for a supposedly better deal. Fuirther, the whole system encourages suppliers to quote large and deliver small - hence the contradiction between the delivery speeds quoted on the web-site (40Mbps) and that quoted in their own techjnical FTTC database for my locality, 14MBPs- marketeers in BT have to believe that two wire broadband can compete with cable services, the technicians know different.

in other words, a government inspired pseudo competition collaborative pricing exercise run by marketeers, where the only benefits guarenteed are the continued and growing employment of unnecessary marketing and customer service types (Who we all now pay for in our new competitive prices).

Putting all that aside, I was quite happy to have the service at the price advertised on the web-site with the two week delivery that BT quoted prior to contract.. Obviously, they probably over quoted on delivery to get the business and Customer services are peeved because I used the automated service on the web-site to make the order and are now intent on rowing themselves in ito justify their existence - hence the unreasonable delivery times.Not playing that game.

Nick

Edited 7 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[softscoop]

It's obviously a big conspiracy designed to deprive you of your money and service.

If you're not happy with BT, then simply change providers? It's not difficult.

[Clunkclick]

It's obviously a big conspiracy designed to deprive you of your money and service.

If you're not happy with BT, then simply change providers? It's not difficult.

You didn't read my last post. I am content to contract at the price quoted, I just want them to honour the two week deliveryt which was originally quoted. There's no need to change supplier to do that.

That mentality is part of the corruption. Supplier not honouring a contract ? Don't whatever you do enforce the contract. No. change to a new supplier (Who is operating on the same principles) and get a new contract which he won't honour . . . . and so and so forth . . round and round. And while this frace is going on the Regulator cocks a blind 'un.

Changing the supplier doesn't work 'cause in reality they are all operating the same phoney system which disguies what the real price of the what they are providing..

And, if you are lucky enoughj to have anything like a demanding job, whose got the time to do all this ****e for each of your utlity suppliers every year, whilst simultaneously popping down to Comet every 2 years to replace busted white goods that should have lasted 7 years at least. An idiotic, inefficient, uneconomic money go round for Dave and his mates in the City. Poke 'em.

Nick

Edited 7 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[RainbowFire]

You didn't read my last post. I am content to contract at the price quoted, I just want them to honour the two week deliveryt which was originally quoted. There's no need to change supplier to do that.

That mentality is part of the corruption. Supplier not honouring a contract ? Don't whatever you do enforce the contract. No. change to a new supplier (Who is operating on the same principles) and get a new contract which he won't honour . . . . and so and so forth . . round and round.

So, you'll have delivery schedule in writing as a quote, not an estimate, as I'm sure, with your history of complaining about everything, you'll know there's a legal difference between the two. (Hence you'll only get an "estimated speed" not a quoted speed.)

Your last whinge about Sony cutting corners with the technology to cut costs was demonstrably shot down in flames, are you sure you have everything right this time?

[Clunkclick]

Complaining does work., Soft shoe shuffles rouind the minions of customer service dept invariably don't as they are not deigned to.

Should we be encouraging suppliers to state a very good delivery time on a web site to induce a customer to place an order, then allow the supplier to avoid providing the customer with permanent evidence of the terms he thought he was signing-up to and then in the outturn allow the supplier to opt out of honouring those terms ?

Do not think the Regulator will be very happy.

As regards the Sony kit, a classic of mis-design. Even with the HDMI cable installed and operating successfully on the previous computing session, if you re-start the computer with the old analog audio jack inadvertently re-installed between the pc and the TV, as well as the HDMI cable, the TV will ignore the HDMI input and automatically selects the lower quality pc audio jack input an,d the |pc detects this and switches to the software to support this. doh.

Nick

Edited 7 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Hedge]

I think the quoted speeds for Infinity are up to 40Mb/s.

[RainbowFire]

I think the quoted speeds for Infinity are up to 40Mb/s.

IIRC a quote is a legally binding document. An estimate is little more than a guess and is usually "based on other factors outside our control" as well.

[RainbowFire]

Complaining does work., Soft shoe shuffles rouind the minions of customer service dept invariably don't as they are not deigned to.

...but not to us, we don't care about your ongoing whinge-fest with BT. I've not had any problems with any of my telecoms or internet suppliers over the years, both personally or at a business level. In fact they're usually falling over themselves to ensure that everything is up to scratch and that there are no issues. Maybe it's just the way that I've come to deal with suppliers over the years. (The latest gain was 6 months free on the leased line being installed. 3 years for the price of 2.5, and that was after getting £400 per month off the price)

Should we be encouraging suppliers to state a very good delivery time on a web site to induce a customer to place an order, then allow the supplier to avoid providing the customer with permanent evidence of the terms he thought he was signing-up to and then in the outturn allow the supplier to opt out of honouring those terms ?

Do not think the Regulator will be very happy.

I'll bet there's a "subject to......." in there. I very very much doubt you'll ever be the first to bring something to the regulators attention, and BT will be far more adept at finessing the language of their adverts and contracts, than you'll be at complaining about it. If you're not happy with the way they play the game, other suppliers are available. By now I would have thought the phrase "can I have that in writing please" would have been part of your arsenal when talking to these people, before you agreed to anything.

....and at the end of the day, you've swallowed everything BT have fed you, as you are still will them after all this time. They will make far more money out of you than those tiny concessions they make to you from time to time. The winner here is BT, not you, and will continue to be so for many years to come.

As regards the Sony kit, a classic of mis-design. Even with the HDMI cable installed and operating successfully on the previous computing session, if you re-start the computer with the old analog audio jack inadvertently re-installed between the pc and the TV, as well as the HDMI cable, the TV will ignore the HDMI input and automatically selects the lower quality pc audio jack input an,d the |pc detects this and switches to the software to support this. doh.

The analogue jack doesn't need to be installed between the PC and the TV. Leaving it plugged in is not "inadvertently", it's a deliberate failing on your part so you can carry on complaining about your own inactions and blaming them on someone else. The smart person would have unplugged the redundant cable in the first place, as you were told in the original thread that it's a "one cable solution".

[Clunkclick]

In line with the current top-down imposed predominant culture I'd be surprised if telecomms providers didn't give businessmens' nether regions the appropriate treatment. But as for residential customers . . . forget it.

Just been on to BT to see if there was any reason why the installation date couldn't be brought foward. They gave the stock reply "Probably Not". I pushed it a bit further, and stated that I didn't think it was acceptable to advertise a two week installation and then unilaterally arrange 2 months and would be writing to Mr Buckeley. Still nothing offered, so I requested a refund of the application fee.Declined. Only then did they say they might be able to do something (as I was reputed to be a "Nice little man". effing cheek) So I'm now waiting to hear.

Just as well I'm not on direct debit.

As regards the Sony kit, if it had been properly designed, that transition from lower grade to higher grade would have been seemless too and Rainbow Fire wouldn't have felt compelled to squander his chargeable hours commenting on my posts - that is, apart from the requirement to paint everything corporate as perfect and wonderful.

Postscript

What bugs me is that you get saturation mailing and telephone calls for weeks, no months in my case, please will you order this service. And when you say yes, they say won't, can't, shan't, we haven't got the resources to do it. G4s comes to mind. Talk about the right ******* not caring or wanting to know what the left hand is doing.Joined-up corpratism (deliberate), fantastic.

Postscript 2

As regards legally binding, you push a button on a BT web site, like me, which says "Upgrade to Infinity 1". As you are guided through the web-site and a re shown successive information and asked to provide some in a process which is outside your control, you read a document which says your going live date is 12/11/2012. And then, at the end of the process, you push another button wjich says "Complete Order" and get a confirmatory E-Mail back stating thjat your order has been received, you may tend to get the impression that anything that has been mentioned in the foregoing documentation will be included in the order you have just made - that's what the law would think, in the absences of exclusions and exemptions in foot-high text.

Nick

Edited 7 November, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Waplord]

[RainbowFire]

I suspect that there's a note on Nick's BT customer file that lets them know just how much whinging they'll get from him, without ever actually leaving their warm, loving arms that he's lived with for 27 years.

In line with the current top-down imposed predominant culture I'd be surprised if telecomms providers didn't give businessmens' nether regions the appropriate treatment. But as for residential customers . . . forget it.

Really? Maybe you are trying the wrong approach then. Back at RainbowFire Towers there are three Virgin HD boxes. One is paid for, the other two are FOC. All are on the same level of account, so all channels are available on all three boxes. This, being Virgin, is coupled with the 100Mb internet connection (although SpeedTest regularly shows more than that.)

Maybe it's down to the way people are dealt with. If you go in all gunz-a-blazing, people will treat you as hostile and give you exactly what you're getting now - nothing.

Just been on to BT to see if there was any reason why the installation date couldn't be brought foward. They gave the stock reply "Probably Not". I pushed it a bit further, and stated that I didn't think it was acceptable to advertise a two week installation and then unilaterally arrange 2 months and would be writing to Mr Buckeley. Still nothing offered, so I requested a refund of the application fee.Declined. Only then did they say they might be able to do something (as I was reputed to be a "Nice little man". effing cheek) So I'm now waiting to hear.

Well, "nice little man" shows what they think of you. I doubt that neither BT management nor the regulator will be responding with any alacrity though. There's no need - you won't actually do anything. The staff are paid to have their time wasted by people like you. That's why the "threat" of writing to Warren Buckley does nothing when you talk to them.

Just as well I'm not on direct debit.

Yeah we know, we're all waiting for the whinge the next time you "forget" to pay it.

As regards the Sony kit, if it had been properly designed, that transition from lower grade to higher grade would have been seemless too and Rainbow Fire wouldn't have felt compelled to squander his chargeable hours commenting on my posts - that is, apart from the requirement to paint everything corporate as perfect and wonderful.

I kinda get the impression that reading the manual as to how connect your kit and how it works, is probably more effort than complaining that you've got it wrong. Typical of today's "it's not my fault" culture. Mind you if Sony had sent an engineer to install it all for you, you'd have complained about that too. The transition is a simple and easy one, provided you actually follow the instructions and not complain that random actions don't have the consequences you demand.

As for "squandering" my chargeable hours, Nick, if only you knew how it works here. But, that's not what's being debated here is it. If you have a problem with me being paid whilst typing this, that'll just have to be another whinge that no-one cares about.

As regards legally binding, you push a button on a BT web site, like me, which says "Upgrade to Infinity 1". As you are guided through the web-site and a re shown successive information and asked to provide some in a process which is outside your control, you read a document which says your going live date is 12/11/2012. And then, at the end of the process, you push another button wjich says "Complete Order" and get a confirmatory E-Mail back stating thjat your order has been received, you may tend to get the impression that anything that has been mentioned in the foregoing documentation will be included in the order you have just made - that's what the law would think, in the absences of exclusions and exemptions in foot-high text.

Other telecoms/internet providers are still available. Read the small print before agreeing to anything. I can guarantee you're one of these people that ticks the box that says "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions", without actually reading them, and then tries to use the excuse "I didn't know" or "it's not fair" when it doesn't go your way (like now).

One of the things I do find quite interesting, is that you have complained about not having the time to do a lot of this, yet you always have the time to post about it in here. :S :S

If you have such a continuous problem with BT, why are you still with them after all this time? 27 years is a long time to put up with something you don't like.

"Joined Up Corporatism": BT isn't one big joined-up corporation. It was broken up quite a few years ago into different parts, as the Monopolies and Mergers Commission were unhappy with it being one big company. Maybe you should complain to them. Bet they won't give a toss either though.

The Company bought a residential property two weeks ago (a side project to our normal business), on the south coast. In three weeks time Infinity will be installed, complete with an engineer attending to do the work. The property currently doesn't have anything more than a basic phone line (i.e. not even ADSL), and that was only re-connected at the weekend. BT have agreed the installation date and a penalty if they miss said installation date. BT are unaware as to use of the property and every discussion with them was done as a resident, not a business.

Mind you, we tend to deal with the monkey-grinder as early as possible in the process, not waste time talking to the organs.

[Babs]

[Clunkclick]

Such a reactive, insular and hostile lot on this forum.

Getting back to the original question, any body else care to venture an opinion whether 2 months is a reasonable time to wait for an Upgrade (Not a new installation) of residential broadband capability in the country's principal city ?

According to Rainbow fire being a member of a parallel corporate World helps but that's not available to everybody.

I would imagine that the majority of BTs residential customers are non-corporates

Is their a published standard for BT ?

Nick

[Schern]

I ordered infinity and it was installed exactly 2 weeks to the day after ordering it. And it delivers 50% higher download speed than the estimate suggested (est 50mbps receive 75mbps). No complaints from me.

I did enter the promotional code provided by the grand master of my Masonic lodge though, so maybe that helped.

Edited 7 November, 2012 by Schern

[cheezemonkhai]

I ordered FTTC from BT.

They gave me a time window, turned up, were really helpful in moving the master socket to get it near a plug.

The engineer did exactly what I asked and left no mess.

The engineer also made sure it all worked fully, then waited while I tried my alternative router on the VDSL model.

He didn't screw it to the wall as it's rented and was very clear I have to keep airflow and away from carpet etc.

I got a call when they left the previous job to get to me and everything works as well (well actually faster then said).

Yep, those BT people are useless