Winter Tyres on Fronts Only. Is this safe?

[Ootohere]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/2012/12/the-beast-from-the-east-is-lur.shtml

Even the BBC are now talking about, 'The Beast from the East' arriving next week'.

Suitable Tyre fitting time.

george

[Jockdooshbag]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...st-is-lur.shtml

Even the BBC are now talking about, 'The Beast from the East' arriving next week'.

Suitable Tyre fitting time.

george

Im swaying more to 4 cheap steelies now again as a few people have been on to me about the cold weather thast on its way. At least by buying them now i will get the benefit of them for the next 3 years.

Excuse my tyre ignorance can someone confirm that as long a si get the correct load rating that the speed rating doesnt matter? The reason for asking is that when i put my reg into tyre websites i get fewer options for tyres rather than just manually inputting tyres size. I understand that rolloing radius has to be the same but what else is "critical"??

[snow_muncher]

Excuse my tyre ignorance can someone confirm that as long a si get the correct load rating that the speed rating doesnt matter?

This is the legal position

FYI this is why you can use spacesaver tyres in the UK

[Ootohere]

I would forget the 'Space Saver' Red Herring.

You do not have a puncture,

and are not getting a Vehicle to a place of repair or safety at a reduced & safe speed for the temporary /tyre/wheel fitted..

Its 'Your Circumstances & vehicle & Insurance Company/Underwritter'. that matters,

not our opinions.

IMHO, (which i am happy if you ignore)

Ask your Insurance Company that the Cover is with now their Acceptable Policy on Winter Tyres.

Steels & Winter Rubber should be totally acceptable at no Extra Insurance Price.

The Tyres will require to be the Correct 'Load Rating' even if a lower Speed Rating, almost certainly.

The Insurers Should be happy with you Fitting Tyre Sizes that Skoda Recommend for Winter Use on your actual vehicle & the Rating of 'Winter Rubber' available for your particular vehicle.

Go to 'Ponderosa' or who ever the good breakers yards are now in Aberdeen, & get 4 suitable Steels & the Nuts.

, Give them a quick clean and sand paper & spray them Satin black

& then get a set of 4 tyres fitted ASAP, would be my advice.

Or go to the Skoda Garage & see if there are any 'Take Offs' Available.

george

[snow_muncher]

I would forget the 'Space Saver' Red Herring.

You do not have a puncture,

and are not getting a Vehicle to a place of repair or safety at a reduced & safe speed for the temporary /tyre/wheel fitted..

You're totally missing the point

Stop ranting and start reading

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/made

http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Replacing_Car_Tyres_1_June_2011.pdf

[Ootohere]

Sorry It is not Ranting, i would put a RANT warning if it was.

Just trying to give safe info for the situation in hand.

No point linking links that i already posted in this thread really, i know what they say, thats why i already posted them.

Have fun all,

I am off it the mayhem that is Perth to Glasgow & then the Central Belt.

http://www.trafficsc...urrentincidents

http://www.trafficsc...etrafficcameras

I need your wishes of luck,

i do get angry at tailgaters & i am just a simple country boy..

george

[bilun777]

Good luck Country Boy...

[@Lee]

Safe driving, George

[seboni121]

Sorry It is not Ranting, i would put a RANT warning if it was.

Just trying to give safe info for the situation in hand.

No point linking links that i already posted in this thread really, i know what they say, thats why i already posted them.

Have fun all,

I am off it the mayhem that is Perth to Glasgow & then the Central Belt.

http://www.trafficsc...urrentincidents

http://www.trafficsc...etrafficcameras

I need your wishes of luck,

i do get angry at tailgaters & i am just a simple country boy..

george

Be safe

[Huskoda]

So in the end, does it look like:

The load rating is a legal issue and must be equal to or greater than the minimum for your vehicle.

The speed rating is an insurance issue and you need to discuss it with them.

Two different tyre types is not recommended but is an insurance issue and you need to discuss it with them.

[cheezemonkhai]

My take on it, is that 4 winter tyres cost roughly the same as a single insurance excess, never mind the increased premiums for the following years.

[Jockdooshbag]

My take on it, is that 4 winter tyres cost roughly the same as a single insurance excess, never mind the increased premiums for the following years.

Good point. Had just ordered snow socks for £40 and was thinking about chancing it. I keep changing my mind but i just dont want to waste money at the moment. I know its not wasted if the winter is terrible but effectively i wasted money buying winters last year and dont want to risk it again. The fact i changed cars was a major factor in the wasting of money i admit but money is tight at the moment so its hard to shell out £400-£500 on something that might not be of use.

If only the MET office where any good at predicting the weather it would make things a lot easier.

[trundlenut]

In Summer would you drive in the rain with two brand new tyres on the front and two bald tyres on the back?

[Jockdooshbag]

In Summer would you drive in the rain with two brand new tyres on the front and two bald tyres on the back?

I better not answer that.

Not bald but certainly with less tread, yes.

[trundlenut]

I better not answer that.

Not bald but certainly with less tread, yes.

Having driven a car with four summer tyres and then an hour later with four winter tyres (same size and profile on the same rims) down the same ungritted road the difference in grip and performance was very very obvious. It would be like I described above to mix summer and winter tyres.

[cheezemonkhai]

Good point. Had just ordered snow socks for £40 and was thinking about chancing it. I keep changing my mind but i just dont want to waste money at the moment. I know its not wasted if the winter is terrible but effectively i wasted money buying winters last year and dont want to risk it again. The fact i changed cars was a major factor in the wasting of money i admit but money is tight at the moment so its hard to shell out £400-£500 on something that might not be of use.

If only the MET office where any good at predicting the weather it would make things a lot easier.

Like I said earlier, think how much your 18" wheels cost, then think how they will last 2 to 4 years if you use them for 6 to 8 months of the year not 12.

The 16" winters are much cheaper, can be sold on if you change car and will mean that you replace your summer tyres far less often.

When the guy with a landy starts seriously considering winter tyres, we're negative already and there is ice on the road mid afternoon I'd not take that chance. Obviously it's your call, but please whatever you do, make sure you're doing something that's safe and not going to put you, your passengers or others at risk.

If that means deciding the weather is rubbish and you're not going to use the car and have a set of snow socks to get you home if you get caught out, then that's as valid as any other.

[Jockdooshbag]

Like I said earlier, think how much your 18" wheels cost, then think how they will last 2 to 4 years if you use them for 6 to 8 months of the year not 12.

The 16" winters are much cheaper, can be sold on if you change car and will mean that you replace your summer tyres far less often.

When the guy with a landy starts seriously considering winter tyres, we're negative already and there is ice on the road mid afternoon I'd not take that chance. Obviously it's your call, but please whatever you do, make sure you're doing something that's safe and not going to put you, your passengers or others at risk.

If that means deciding the weather is rubbish and you're not going to use the car and have a set of snow socks to get you home if you get caught out, then that's as valid as any other.

I think i will avoid just changing the front tyres now i think about it. So only option now is 4 steelies with winters or chance it with snow socks. Snow socks are a total pain in the bum when it comes to fiting them but they are so cheap. I should maybe have put winter tyres on my xmas list but its too late for that now plus tyres is hardly exciting on xmas day is it and you cant expect me to buy my own pants and aftershave now can you.

[skinnyman]

Seems that having winters on front only on FWD car should be ok then?

Can I throw in my 2p worth? I've used snow socks on my vRS in quite snowy conditions. They worked very well and have saved my skin for three years running. However, when fitted and travelling over 40mph, the rear end offered the sensation of being dragged along by the front rather than having any sort of input into what was happening. It was quite unnerving to be honest, but we were miles from home with the kids in the car and as I said they got me home when other people didn't. Having said that, at urban speeds of up to 30mph in and around Scarborough in deep snow, they were amazing and gave inspired confidence.

Last year, I fitted four winter tyres to the Octavia and had a fantastic time in the snow, managing to go pretty much wherever thanks to the traction. We had a fair bit of snow and I went out to play at every given opportunity.

So after rambling on, I reckon that my snow socks experience says don't fit two to the front as the mismatch in grip was very unsettling.

Here's a photo of the car after one of my snow bound adventures. :yes:

[domhnall]

I have a courtesy car this mornign which has winters on the front only. As I drove home from the dealer and turned into my street the car went round the corner nicely but the back end swung round and the car span 180 degrees. I was travelling at 20mph and the road was covered with a thin layer of hard packed snow which has obviously frozen as it is minus 4.

Fit 4 or fit none at all.

[dieselV6]

Disclaimer: while I used this setup for 5 years, the post below cannot be constitued as an advice for any legal purposes. You are on your own and make up your own mind.

First of all, let me state that winter tyres all round are best and offer most control on ice/snow, one of my cars always has a full set on in winter.

BUT, only if you have an ESP-equipped FWD car and really cannot afford/justify 4 winter tyres, you can put 2 Nokian WRs / other winter oriented all-weather tyres on the front and any respectable tyres (not Chinese plastic rubber) on the rear. Then do not exceed 15mph into roundabouts, and drive sensibly. If the rear starts fidgeting on loose snow, take the foot off accelerator. If you have to brake, brake normally.

This will work quite well because ESP corrects oversteer by braking a respective front wheel, plus Skodas are nose heavy cars so front axle does most of the driving. If you get oversteer, ESP will try to correct it through front winter tyres, if you get understeer, you were driving too fast and the only benefit of a 4 winter tyres car over 2 front winter tyres car would be that the 4 winter tyre car would stop a little faster on braking (not much faster, because of weight transfer to front). For spring-summer-autumn, just put the Nokian WRs on rear axle, they won't mind UK summer much.

My Mk 1 Octavia used that setup for 5 winters, never ran into trouble specifically because of rear summer tyres. It did A120 Stansted airport run one winter when that road was not de-snowed at all for 2 weeks. Worst it came to was fidgeting rear at 60mph on loose snow/ice on A120, but if you do not slow down when the car shakes and ESP light flashes almost constantly, you deserve all you get I did get stuck in the car park in deep snow once, but it was the fronts slipping, rears made no difference. Tight roundabouts on loose snow are where you can see ESP correcting the rear slipping if you drive too fast, so leave 3ft/1m to nearest obstacle at all times if you drive on loose snow.

Ironically, this Mk1 Octavia got rear-ended in good weather and written off last year. I used 2 Nokian WRs per 2 years at 10k miles/year in total, which was comparable wear with front tyres (though of course fronts drove more on front axle on account of spring-autumn vs winter).

Edited 16 January, 2013 by dieselV6

[Ootohere]

Just a small point,

Are all front engine cars not 'Nose Heavy', even when rear wheel drive.

&

Rear Engine cars 'Tail Heavy'. Possibly Twin Engined front and rear wheel drive cars 'Balanced 50/50 ish'.

We put Bags of sand in the boot (rear) back in the days of Austin Cambridges, Zodiacs etc.

Its all the same these days, Winter, Weather, Cold, Slippy.

Cars are often not that different these days, other than sometimes over 'powered steering assisted' & with Electrics that should not always be trusted to do it all for you.

& ABS that might still require you to do careful Cadence Braking or use of gears for decelerating.

Often crawling along and not lane changing and dead slow cornering is order of the day, 'Or night'.

None of it is rocket science,

even with 2 or 4 Winter tyres fitted you drive as tho you are on thin ice.

That is because quite possibly you are.

george

[dieselV6]

Front engined, FWD cars are both nose heavy and have most weight on the driven axle. That's why, together with ESP, 2 winters on front actually work well. It won't work so well with RWD as you would not have enough traction to get moving.

Other points I agree with.

Edited 16 January, 2013 by dieselV6

[AnotherGareth]

when fitted and travelling over 40mph, the rear end offered the sensation of being dragged along by the front rather than having any sort of input into what was happening. It was quite unnerving to be honest

The specs I've seen for snow-socks is that they should only be used up to 30 mph (or 50 kph).

[Jockdooshbag]

Disclaimer: while I used this setup for 5 years, the post below cannot be constitued as an advice for any legal purposes. You are on your own and make up your own mind.

First of all, let me state that winter tyres all round are best and offer most control on ice/snow, one of my cars always has a full set on in winter.

BUT, only if you have an ESP-equipped FWD car and really cannot afford/justify 4 winter tyres, you can put 2 Nokian WRs / other winter oriented all-weather tyres on the front and any respectable tyres (not Chinese plastic rubber) on the rear. Then do not exceed 15mph into roundabouts, and drive sensibly. If the rear starts fidgeting on loose snow, take the foot off accelerator. If you have to brake, brake normally.

This will work quite well because ESP corrects oversteer by braking a respective front wheel, plus Skodas are nose heavy cars so front axle does most of the driving. If you get oversteer, ESP will try to correct it through front winter tyres, if you get understeer, you were driving too fast and the only benefit of a 4 winter tyres car over 2 front winter tyres car would be that the 4 winter tyre car would stop a little faster on braking (not much faster, because of weight transfer to front). For spring-summer-autumn, just put the Nokian WRs on rear axle, they won't mind UK summer much.

My Mk 1 Octavia used that setup for 5 winters, never ran into trouble specifically because of rear summer tyres. It did A120 Stansted airport run one winter when that road was not de-snowed at all for 2 weeks. Worst it came to was fidgeting rear at 60mph on loose snow/ice on A120, but if you do not slow down when the car shakes and ESP light flashes almost constantly, you deserve all you get I did get stuck in the car park in deep snow once, but it was the fronts slipping, rears made no difference. Tight roundabouts on loose snow are where you can see ESP correcting the rear slipping if you drive too fast, so leave 3ft/1m to nearest obstacle at all times if you drive on loose snow.

Ironically, this Mk1 Octavia got rear-ended in good weather and written off last year. I used 2 Nokian WRs per 2 years at 10k miles/year in total, which was comparable wear with front tyres (though of course fronts drove more on front axle on account of spring-autumn vs winter).

Interesting post. Thanks for that. Good idea swapping the winters onto back axle in summer.

I bought snow socks in the end and am keeping fingers crossed.

My current idea is to persevere with snow socks if i get stuck and just drive carefully pon ice and snow, then when my front tyres need replaced im going to but all weather tyres. When the rears eventually wear out i will then fit all weathers to those.

In Scotlan i think we could benefit from all weather tyrea all year as summer has ceased to occur here for a while now.

There was a good tyre revew i read that said Kumho made good all weather tyres that were actually better in snow then most budget winter tyres. These are top of my list currently but seeing as ive only put 3000 miles on the fronts it will be next winter before i need them.

[dieselV6]

All weathers are a good idea but be careful as some of them are really poor in the wet. I bought Nokian eNtyres 1.5 years ago and these were downright deadly in the wet. Best to check reviews/test results.

My current all weather choice would be Vredestein Quatrac Lite if you want all 4 tyres. The added upshot being that these are relatively quiet for all weather tyres. When my wife's Roomster tyres are worn out, I'll be putting Vredesteins all round.