Given the onset of winter I've, rightly or wrongly, just ordered a nylon, strap type, towrope for the boot of the DSG Yeti (and another for the torque converter automatic Hyundai i10)....... http://www.amazon.co...o01_s00_i00.??

I paid about £7.50 each.

On reflection was this a good idea? The idea was that they could help if I or someone else needed pulling out of a awkward icy position and not for towing any distance at all - but both cars are automatic and it just struck me that you're probably not supposed to pull automatics with a rope.

Any thoughts?

I also got a pack of 5 foil blankets for £4.25 to put in the car. ..... http://www.amazon.co...ils_o00_s00_i00

Fortunately I don't think there's any debate about using these with an automatic box :-)

I don't see the problem. I had my Yeti DSG towed when I stupidly dropped it into a ditch. I manually selected 1st and was just pulled out - no ill effects and not sure why there should be.

From the Owner's Manual:

For pulling out of a ditch or for short trips I wouldn't worry about it. I have also just winterised the boot of my car:

- ski jacket

- waterproof trousers

- walking boots

- socks, gloves, hat, scarf

- sleeping bag

- high energy food (cereal bars, chocolate, nuts)

- bottled water

- torch

- tow rope

- portable snow shovel

All this is after having to abandon the previous car 2 years ago; luckily that time I was close to home but I know people who were stranded on the motorway for hours. Ever since then I carry this stuff all winter every year and have never yet had to use it.

Given the onset of winter I've, rightly or wrongly, just ordered a nylon, strap type, towrope for the boot of the DSG Yeti (and another for the torque converter automatic Hyundai i10)....... http://www.amazon.co...o01_s00_i00.??

I paid about £7.50 each.

On reflection was this a good idea? The idea was that they could help if I or someone else needed pulling out of a awkward icy position and not for towing any distance at all - but both cars are automatic and it just struck me that you're probably not supposed to pull automatics with a rope.

Any thoughts?

I also got a pack of 5 foil blankets for £4.25 to put in the car. ..... http://www.amazon.co...ils_o00_s00_i00

Fortunately I don't think there's any debate about using these with an automatic box :-)

It is okay as long as it is rated and you can read the rating on it. Otherwise do not use or your insurance could cause problems.

Never, ever use unrated stuff. If it is any good it will have some sort of marking or label on it, stating its rating.

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It is okay as long as it is rated and you can read the rating on it. Otherwise do not use or your insurance could cause problems.

Never, ever use unrated stuff. If it is any good it will have some sort of marking or label on it, stating its rating.

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There's no mention of any sort of rating in the description. Click the link and see the item on Amazon....

Did a quick Google beforehand and saw no reference to rating on tow-ropes so wasn't looking for one...it may or may not have one - won't know till it arrives. Kind of doubt it at that price?

If you put in a ditch, then it is going to get dragged back on to the carriageway and if necessary dragged on to the back of a recovery truck. Same for any vehicle. Bum covering mode?

The speeds we are talking about <walking pace? Surely the trans can't be that fragile?

If you put in a ditch, then it is going to get dragged back on to the carriageway and if necessary dragged on to the back of a recovery truck. Same for any vehicle. Bum covering mode?

The speeds we are talking about <walking pace? Surely the trans can't be that fragile?

No, you're right...I can see there's no need to worry.

Some automatic boxes rely on oil being pumped round for their lubrication, bit like an engine. Towing for any distance will cause damage and shouldn't be done. Pulling out of a ditch or onto a breakdown truck should OK.

I'm a member of 4x4 response. We are only covered by our insurance if we use rated stuff. Everything else is junked.

Speed of pulling out is irrelevant. It is the pull that matters. If something is is stuck or in a ditch it could severely damage our Yet's as the pull required can be several times the weight of the vehicle you are pulling out.

Personally, unless you have been taught how to recover vehicles, then I would not recommend it.

We don't really have any suitable places to attach a tow rope to the Yeti.

I would suggest you leave well alone and let the 'big boys' is their big toys do the recoveries.

I was invited to help at the Isle of Wight festival earlier this year but decided that I didn't want to damage my Yeti, and I was right not to do so, having heard from other members of the group what they had to put up with.

Remember, you may be capable, and your vehicle may be capable, but that counts for nothing if the driver you are helping has no idea what to do, even when you have told them what to do....

I will not be towing any vehicles. My Yeti is too precious. I have the gear and the training and experience to know the limitations of my vehicle.

Now an Land Rover defender/disco etc would be fine. They have a chassis to attach to. We have a monocoque.

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I'm a member of 4x4 response. We are only covered by our insurance if we use rated stuff. Everything else is junked.

I will not be towing any vehicles. My Yeti is too precious. I have the gear and the training and experience to know the limitations of my vehicle.

Now an Land Rover defender/disco etc would be fine. They have a chassis to attach to. We have a monocoque.

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You say you will not be doing any towing. I had thought of joining my local group but the requirements below state a minimum of an attached rear towball. I had assumed this was to help someone else i.e. tow. Or is it to rescue the member themselves. I do not have a towbar fitted so have not bothered.

Any vehicle likely to be deployed should be: Road legal, Tax, MOT, Insurance

• Appropriately insured. Check with your insurance company that you policy covers volunteer response duties. A standard policy covering Social, Domestic and Pleasure, and commuting may not be suitable.
  
• Kept in good mechanical condition including any auxiliary equipment carried.
  
• Equipped with a fixed rear recovery point (A correctly fitted towing ball is a minimum)
  
• Equipped with a fixed front recovery point where practical. This may not be possible on all vehicles. The manufacturers towing eye is not suitable.
  
• Carrying suitable equipment for the role you may have to perform. This includes recovery equipment, safety equipment etc.
  
• All on board equipment securely stowed to protect yourself and any passengers you may have to carry.
  
• Fitted and working seat belts on all seats if you expect to carry passengers.
  
• Vehicle ID fitted front and rear. These are you HR numbers which you will be issued with when you become an active responder
  

You say you will not be doing any towing. I had thought of joining my local group but the requirements below state a minimum of an attached rear towball. I had assumed this was to help someone else i.e. tow. Or is it to rescue the member themselves. I do not have a towbar fitted so have not bothered.

Any vehicle likely to be deployed should be: Road legal, Tax, MOT, Insurance

[*]Appropriately insured. Check with your insurance company that you policy covers volunteer response duties.

All local groups are different. They are all separate charities.

Each group has different objectives. Surrey just move emergency services personnel around. Some responders are trained in recovery, but not all, and it is not what we are asked to do, though some may choose to do so, and providing they notify the controller, they are covered under the group insurance.

The tow eye is barely acceptable for recovery, but that is all the Yeti has, unless you have a towbar fitted. Towbars are not recommended for recovery as the rope/strop can come off it quite easily.

I would only use the tow eye or the towbar in a emergency for self recovery.

Our cars are very capable off road, but are not as capable as the 'proper' 4x4's. and nowhere near as strong, one if the reasons they are called soft roaders!!!!!

And yes re the insurance, you need to write to your insurance company and get permission from them to use the car for voluntary work. I have written permission.

The gear we need is a mobile and a spare mobile on another network! Warm clothes, pen and paper, blankets/sleeping bag and some mars bars and a warm drink.

In certain situations, we would be going out with 2 vehicles, in case one got stuck, in severe weather.

There are loads of other things you could take with you, but those are the essentials.

I also have ice grippers for my shoes. They are like snow chains. Stops you slipping over on the ice when you get out of the car. They are amazing.

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For pulling out of a ditch or for short trips I wouldn't worry about it. I have also just winterised the boot of my car:

- ski jacket

- waterproof trousers

- walking boots

- socks, gloves, hat, scarf

- sleeping bag

- high energy food (cereal bars, chocolate, nuts)

- bottled water

- torch

- tow rope

- portable snow shovel

All this is after having to abandon the previous car 2 years ago; luckily that time I was close to home but I know people who were stranded on the motorway for hours. Ever since then I carry this stuff all winter every year and have never yet had to use it.

Thanks weasley, I will add some stuff you have that I had not added to my 'kit'

In MY kit. I also have a 1000w power converter with a cordless angle grinder (ideal for cutting through padlocks if ones car is illegally clamped.

Also have wellies, toolkit, snowchains, 2 blankets one with a waterproofe lining. warm clothing.

I'm a member of 4x4 response. We are only covered by our insurance if we use rated stuff. Everything else is junked.

Speed of pulling out is irrelevant. It is the pull that matters. If something is is stuck or in a ditch it could severely damage our Yet's as the pull required can be several times the weight of the vehicle you are pulling out.

Personally, unless you have been taught how to recover vehicles, then I would not recommend it.

We don't really have any suitable places to attach a tow rope to the Yeti.

I would suggest you leave well alone and let the 'big boys' is their big toys do the recoveries.

I was invited to help at the Isle of Wight festival earlier this year but decided that I didn't want to damage my Yeti, and I was right not to do so, having heard from other members of the group what they had to put up with.

Remember, you may be capable, and your vehicle may be capable, but that counts for nothing if the driver you are helping has no idea what to do, even when you have told them what to do....

I will not be towing any vehicles. My Yeti is too precious. I have the gear and the training and experience to know the limitations of my vehicle.

Now an Land Rover defender/disco etc would be fine. They have a chassis to attach to. We have a monocoque.

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Interesting post which I, of course, read and note with thanks. TBH the mention of the word 'ditch' wasn't used by myself above....I merely had in mind the possibility of a pull from a relatively hospitable spot such as a grass verge or stretch of on-road snow or ice just to get out of any minor local difficulty. I did, in one of our recent cold winters, find it embarrassingly difficult to drive off an almost level but very frosty grass verge - just yards from the road - whilst equipped with 'Summer Tyres' having returned to the car after a hill walk on Dartmoor. I might have been grateful for a quick pull back to the road and wouldn't have had a rope. I've fitted 'All Seasons' to the Hyundai since and 'Winters' to the Yeti.

We don't really have any suitable places to attach a tow rope to the Yeti. ......... Surely the towing eye on the Yeti would be suitable for this lightweight duty? However when you say...I would suggest you leave well alone and let the 'big boys' is their big toys do the recoveries....... I'm very much disposed to agree with the thinking here and take note.

Edited 8 December, 201213 yr by oldstan

As another 4x4 Response member, I will agree with all that Rockhopper says. The Yeti is not designed as a tow vehicle, although I have done so (BMW in a dangerous position). However I have received basic training in motorsport recovery with one of the Rally Rescue units, carry a 5 tonne rated tow strop, and KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!! Personally I would only use a 3 tonne strop for a straight, all wheels rolling freely, no other item grounded pull. Even one wheel not rolling can increase the load by 25%!!

Hood,

With reference to this point:

• Equipped with a fixed rear recovery point (A correctly fitted towing ball is a minimum)
  

We have a similar ruling in Wales, but it is only for your own recovery, not for you pulling! if you don't have one it might still be worth talking to your local Team. Rules can and are bent!

Stan,

""We don't really have any suitable places to attach a tow rope to the Yeti. ......... Surely the towing eye on the Yeti would be suitable for this lightweight duty? However when you say...I would suggest you leave well alone and let the 'big boys' is their big toys do the recoveries....... I'm very much disposed to agree with the thinking here and take note. ""

The screw-in towing eye is rated to at least the weight of the vehicle, plus probably 100%, BUT we don't know that exactly and I doubt anyone would ever confirm it, therefore personally I wouldn't trust it completely. The only other partly "suitable" item is a tow ball, but even that must be treated with extreme caution as it is too easy for ropes/strops to slip off them. I think your last sentence is very sensible. TBH in your example getting a push is often safer.

Sorry, I started the ditch controversy. As you say pulling your mate off a verge is really what I was thinking. I had to be pulled out of a VERY shallow depression at Stoneleigh's wonderful car parks some years ago. I realise there is a world of difference between recovering an "up to the doors" 4X4 from a glutinous bog and helping out a person in distress in what would be normal circumstances other than the slipperiness. I guess its all down to common sense.

Rockhopper's situation where a club go beyond the normal "Good Samaritan" situation and would possibly be expected to show a greater duty of care than the likes of me for example. The joys of our litigious times.

The last time I donned my shiny armour, was for a family with a VW camper in the Alps. After skiing and now after after sunset. They had slithered enough to put a wheel off the road and stalled, even with chains (compulsory at the altitude) they were well and truly. A few fellows could have done the job, but there was only us. A gentle pull, a jumpstart and a family with two small kids didn't have to wait hours in the freezing (-15 -20C) cold. (Air cooled VW) I don't think that was incorrect and would do the same again. H&S or not.

As to recovery points, Skoda build in a towing point, if you're merely towing the vehicle off the slippery stuff then surely that would be within the designed capabilities of both the provided eye and the structure it is attached to. I would think on a compromised surface, even with winter tyres, you would be unable to produce sufficient tractive effort to do damage to a modern vehicle structure, assuming a straight pull - but then of course we are talking about the General Public, completly qualified in nincompooery to the highest level.

For pulling out of a ditch or for short trips I wouldn't worry about it. I have also just winterised the boot of my car:

- ski jacket

- waterproof trousers

- walking boots

- socks, gloves, hat, scarf

- sleeping bag

- high energy food (cereal bars, chocolate, nuts)

- bottled water

- torch

- tow rope

- portable snow shovel

All this is after having to abandon the previous car 2 years ago; luckily that time I was close to home but I know people who were stranded on the motorway for hours. Ever since then I carry this stuff all winter every year and have never yet had to use it.

Wow

Now that's prepared.. real belt and braces.

Edited 8 December, 201213 yr by servicepoint

Nick.

At work so don't have the "load table" I was given on my training, but seem to remember that any pull on level grass increases the load by 10%, and for every 5 degrees of slope this also increases the load expedentially. It is surprisingly easy to quickly "overload" a towing vehicle and it's equipment.

Also 4x4 Response is NOT a Club, but a collective of 4x4 Response Groups throughout the UK, who have joined together to form the National 4x4 Response Network to provide highly trained volunteers to many bodies, including the Police, Fire and Ambulance services, plus others in times of "hazard" from flooding to snow, from missing persons to natural disasters. Not towing out vehicles, other than in dire emergency is not in our remit, and is nothing to do with litigation. In fact we would probably be covered under the 4x4 Response insurance, but don't consider it our "job".

EDIT to add.

The BMW I pulled out of the way was an X5, in about 4" of snow whilst I was still on "summer" tyres. He thought that because he had a 4x4 corners could still be taken at normal speed! The hedge and small ditch won!! Miserable beggar didn't even offer me a pint!!

I agree with everything you say Graham. Years of involvement in motorsport is invaluable experience!

Adding to the comments already made, another thing to bear in mind is that just like tow bars, the standard towing eyes are really only designed for a straight pull. As soon as you tow at an angle - eg the initial pull from a vehicle slightly off to one side of a vehicle stuck on a grass verge - the risk of damage to the vehicle is greatly increased.

I would always recommend doing a dry run of fitting your towing eye at home sometime, just so you know how to do it - you don't want to fit it for the first time on a dark wet night somewhere!

I doubt the Yeti will have the problem, but I've come across several vehicles in the past where it is very difficult to screw the eye into the threaded socket in the bumper because of the amount of paint in the thread. The eye (which has an anti-clockwise screw thread by the way) should be tightened by putting the handle of the wheel wrench through the eye - tight but not Goliath tight!

And make sure you don't lose the blanking plug - you'll need to refit that later and it's easy to snap off the thin plastic tether!

Of course, having done a dummy run, you'll never need to fit it again - so think of it as a good insurance policy.

Edited 8 December, 201213 yr by speedsport

I agree with everything you say Graham. Years of involvement in motorsport is invaluable experience!

Hi John. Sorry to get off topic, but I won't bump into you next year on the North West Stages as I'm running a stage on the Wyedean, and my start radio is normally Phil Mostyn - who won't be there either!

One of the biggest problems with towing is the towed driver's amazing inability to keep the rope/strap tight, often resulting in either a sudden snatch after slowing or them running over your rope/strap.

No matter how carefully you explain how important it is to brake gently and watch the rope/strap, even with an experienced driver, they quickly seem to lose concentration (even on the racing circuit!).

Thus it is recommended if you are going to tow for more than just a few yards, that you should use a tow pole rather than a rope or strap. In fact I think I'm right in saying that it is now illegal to tow along a motorway unless using a tow pole, and it is certainly illegal to tow a vehicle onto a motorway using a pole, rope or strap.

As has been said before, if contemplating towing any distance, leave it to the professionals.

Hi John. Sorry to get off topic, but I won't bump into you next year on the North West Stages as I'm running a stage on the Wyedean, and my start radio is normally Phil Mostyn - who won't be there either!

Oh, that's a shame Jerry - and no Mostyn either - double drat!!!

I too have joined my local 4x4 response group (Wessex).

It's a voluntary service, I do not intend to go wading through deep floodwater or knee deep in mud. What I am prepared to do is assist in wintry conditions getting nurses / doctors / patients to and from their workplaces / appointments. Other services include delivery of meals on wheels and the like to elderly people who would otherwise go without in extreme weather conditions.

When a shout comes in it is the drivers responsibility to assess the risks involved and make a decision about attending, we are often told that if conditions get beyond the capability of the vehicle / driver combination then you can ask to be relieved of the task.

One of the items in my 4x4 response box is a 6.5t rated strap with snap hooks at each end. It's only there to pull me out of minor difficulties or other vehicles in similar situations.

I will quite happily leave any form of extreme work / operation to those with the correct equipment, (the raised suspension, Winch fitted, knobbly tyred, green lane driving) members of our group, many of whom also went to the Isle of Wight mud lark.

As someone who spent more than 20 years in Dorset Fire and rescue service, I feel I have enough experience to know my limits and those of my vehicle.

It may be interesting to note that all of the DFRS, lifting and pulling equipment had to be load tested and certified by a third party organisation with the correct qualifications to do that at regular intervals, it was either 12 or 24 months, I can't remember now.

I doubt if "personal use" equipment falls into the same regime, but it is still a relevant point that performance of equipment reduces over time and use.

Sure guys, the original discussion was about " ...pulling out of an awkward icy position and not for towing any distance at all...." I muddied the waters by mentioning the ditch.... bad me!

I realise and understand that there is a world of difference between a rally car stuffed at speed in the scenery, and someone not able to "unpark".

And briefly, I was a professional, worked on the M1, recovering anything and everything. Flat tyres to brains in footwell. Mini's to arctics.

Sure guys, the original discussion was about " ...pulling out of an awkward icy position and not for towing any distance at all...." I muddied the waters by mentioning the ditch.... bad me!

I realise and understand that there is a world of difference between a rally car stuffed at speed in the scenery, and someone not able to "unpark".

And briefly, I was a professional, worked on the M1, recovering anything and everything. Flat tyres to brains in footwell. Mini's to arctics.

As you say, Old Stan was indeed asking about the advisability of a tow rope as an emergency device, and was not considering using it for towing a distance. As such, yes, it is a valuable piece of kit to have "just in case" - it's better to have one that can be used to quickly obtain assistance than be stuck in adverse conditions when a simple pull was all that was needed to get you on your way.

Much interesting discussion resulted which, as is often the case on this forum, expanded to cover all sorts of advice beyond the purpose of the original post. I guess that there will be information there that helps someone in a difficult situation, even if it just makes them think about their own capabilities before attempting the impossible!

We also now know a little more about 4x4 response too - which has certainly improved my knowledge about the service their members offer.

A good topic, even if it did stray slightly!