What Would You Buy Next?

[JonathanK]

Apart from a 2 or 3 year dalliance with a BMW 530 M Sport I've run a Passat V6 TDi (x2) and Skoda Superb 2.5 V6 TDi since 2000. The Skoda I have now is an Edition 100 and is better specified than anything I've ever had and I really enjoy it.

I thought about changing it for a Jaguar earlier this year but ended up buying a Boxster for fun instead. That was partly because the XF & XJ I tried we're much the same as the Skoda just newer and would depreciate faster. The Boxster belonged to a friend of a friend, had good provenance and offered a very different motoring experience so I thought 'why not'?

With only 53k I'm in no hurry to get a replacement for the Superb but I wondered what other members would choose if they were replacing now? I'm a big fan of V6 diesels so the new Superb doesn't really appeal. I'm not a fan of the saloon design anyway and don't need an estate.

The XF is nice but didn't feel really special and I was disappointed with the performance of the 2.7 which is what I can afford.

So, if you were to change your Superb V6 TDi, what would you choose and why?

[rotodiesel]

It's difficult question based largely on requirements. There is a human factor too - having been comprehensively kicked in the nuts by VAG, it goes totally against the grain to give them any more money.

My 1.9 PD Superb has been generally very satisfactory, especially in terms of the engine's ability to do the job I want. For the engine, I give 10/10 for the 1.9 PD as a useful long-lived and very economical prime mover.

Problems I have had (CV joint boots, coolant temperature sender) are all well known - so why do I hear about these on the Internet before they fail? Do VAG never correct design faults retrospectively? The amount of retrospective design fault correction I have needed to apply to this vehicle to avoid trouble has been mind-boggling. Even the wiper spindle bearings will rust solid unless you make provision for their regular lubrication - the designers chose to run steel spindles in sintered iron bushes - genius.

The attitude of the dealers to these well known and uncorrected faults (some being dangerous faults such as water ingress, which can cause loss of brake servo action), I find to be totally unacceptable. However good their later products might be, my head would not allow them any more of my cash.

Another factor in the equation is that diesel engines are not really worth having any more. Anything beyond Euro III will present its owner with DPF and other problems later on in its life when it is worth peanuts. Nobody spends serious money on an old vehicle - so these will all be prematurely written off. In any event, DPF maintenance will now completely negate any diesel savings on fuel.

To answer the question, I will probably buy a petrol Toyota next time. At least they admit to their design problems and put them right.

My experience with VAG is that they don't give a toss - and continue with their non-admitted design errors. Take a look at the timing drive on the 1.4TSi petrol engine - Autobild gave it their "carrot" award.

rotodiesel.

Edited 29 December, 2012 by rotodiesel

[dohertyjj]

I would agree with rotodiesel on the VW group attitude to continuous design faults and their inability to admit when they get it wrong the 1.9 awx engine is indeed a very good piece of kit if given a little care its the arrogance within the group to the other flaws that could and should have been sorted out within a short period of them been discovered particularly when you see that the same flaws come up on VW, Skoda, Seat, and their so called flagship Audi. Now with over 50% of new cars on the road being diesel the oil companies are loading the price rises on to diesel faster than petrol this along with the issues with dpf fluid and the fact that the new petrol cars can achieve great mileage per gallon it might be time to look back to the Japanese or Koreans the only thing I have against these is the plastic feel to a lot of their models.

With 222000 miles of my 130hp Superb I have been keeping an eye for something fresher I have a hankering for a Volvo s60 R design or an S80 the problem here in Ireland is once you go above 2.0Ltr we pay punitive tax rates and the volvo 2.5Ltr is a dirty beast

[MilanM]

There isnt a car that I would accept to change for my Sup.

BUT, if I could buy another car(and have 2-that and Sup) then it would definately be VW Passat CC(2010 or 2011 model)-not this new one.

Lets get over a fact that in this time of crysis, I dont have a money for buying a new car, If I get lottery my choice would be Audi A7.

But once again to repeat, currently there isnt a car that could make me to change it for Sup.

Simply I love very much my Superb:))))))

[allclownsareevi]

I have no personal issues with VAG cars or dealerships, in fact I quite like my car. It does most thing reasonably well and is a good all-rounder. However, from reading through these forums, and others similar, I have seen they are designed with flaws pre-programmed into them. I'm not a fan of being fleeced and don't think VAG should be rewarded for such customer dis-regard.

With that in mind, I'd probably buy something Japanese, two door, turbo. The ECUs are far less restrictive than their Euro counterparts and you can get a lot more bang for your buck.

[mr_cjkul]

new Superb mk2 with 2.0tdi with 170hp then re-map springs and de-cat and de-DPF

or

Chrysler 300c with same mods

[Gaz]

I'm quite likely to go back to Saab. Very well put together bit of kit and I miss the performance. Not without their flaws - SID, headlight relays, stupid breather design that needs a sump drop to get the muck out but as RD has said in many threads, if you keep on top of the known problems they aren't really an issue.

Gaz

[allclownsareevi]

I'm quite likely to go back to Saab. Very well put together bit of kit and I miss the performance. Not without their flaws - SID, headlight relays, stupid breather design that needs a sump drop to get the muck out but as RD has said in many threads, if you keep on top of the known problems they aren't really an issue.

Gaz

I'm not trying to sound smart-arsed with this, but aren't Saab out of business now, or has someone jumped in and saved them?

[Cown]

Saab is history.

[Gaz]

I'm not trying to sound smart-arsed with this, but aren't Saab out of business now, or has someone jumped in and saved them?

Saab is history.

Yep, no signs of any reprieve. Lots of good un's out there still though. JK didn't say 'new' did he?

I miss my Aero :(

Gaz

[dieselV6]

Interesting thread.

I researched Superb Comfort 2.5TDI V6 upgrade for past 2 years. In short, after 2.5V6 manual gearbox there is nothing to upgrade to at the moment in the VAG stable, you can only downgrade or overpay to keep same/similar standard (or overpay more and lose even more features that make Mk1 Superb so good).

I maintain my own cars, so would like to stay within VW Group stable to avoid getting new tools/VCDS equivalent, and I would prefer to get a comparable or better car than my Superb Mk1 is now. The car has to be manual gearbox, 200bhp+, 5+ cylinder diesel and must have a full spare, 4x4 very welcome. The bigger fuel tank the better, 65l is absolute minimum (vented Mk1 is 69l but is more frugal than recent engines). All these features are needed for 1000+ mile high speed overnight trips across Europe, plus to keep the general feeling of comfort that Mk1 Superb provides. I'm 6ft5, hence legroom front/rear is also an obvious requirement.

Up till 2009 or so, an Audi A6 Quattro 3.0V6 TDI (with EU4 pilot catalysts, no DPF) fitted these requirements perfectly, and cost about £40k fully fitted. Double the original Superb's price, but a lot better car as well. Afterwards the DPF came in with its problems, then recently Audi removed spare wheels and manual gearboxes from all Quattro versions with "normal" suspension (Alroad has unreliable height adjustable suspension), while at the same time the interiors became more and more luxurious. Apparently, that's what market (China) wants. The long distance cruiser A6 got turned into an expensive gadget filled sofa on wheels. They even removed extended fuel tanks for a while leaving just 65ltr (old one had 80ltr on quattro). Nowadays you can have 65ltr or 75ltr, with 75ltr being an additional tank that is normally used for auxiliary heater.

All in the name of fuel economy and weight saving. Well, they certainly saved weight on my A6 right down to 0kg because I did not buy it in early 2012 solely for reasons stated above (my wife's 10yr old Mk1 Octavia got written off and it was perfect time to upgrade, bought her a Roomie instead at 1/3rd price).

If I really had to change the car now I'd look for a used ~2009 A6 rather than buy any new one, the only new options I'd ever consider from current new A6 range are FWD or a tiptronic, but both are waaay overpriced. Though at least it seems Audi got the message that DSG boxes, while lighting quick, are not durable enough and do not offer the main advantage of tipronic which is penalty free crawl mode in a traffic jam. When I am too old to drive a stick, I'll get the tiptronic, but hopefully it's still 30yrs+ away

As for the rest of VW Group stable, Seat Exeo is a good deal but far too little legroom and underpowered for my application. VW Phaeton is already too luxurious but at least has a full sized spare and the tiptronic rather than DSG box. The rest of the cars in VW Group, including Mk2 Superb, are simply either too small or not comfortable enough in high speed driving when compared to Mk1 Superb, most do not have full size spare, and the diesel range for manual gearboxes flops out at a 170bhp 4 cyl which is barely enough on Autobahn at night.

Most likely, I'll stick to driving my Mk1 Superb for another 100k-200k miles if it lets me, (110k on the clock now). Then I will look at the market again, to see if VAG came back to their senses and re-started manufacturing of long distance cruisers, I do not care under what brand. If they do not, I will consider saving a lot of money on initial purchase and get a bit more crammed Mk3 Octavia. Not as comfortable nor as fast, but good looking and half the price of cars I mentioned above and does the job. VAG only cares about corporate buyers nowadays, at least when it comes to larger/premium cars.

I agree about DPF engines being nonsense due to costs and real fuel consumption if you drive in the UK. My wife's Roomster 1.6CR 105bhp uses almost same amount of fuel as my Mk1 2.5TDI V6 Superb in mixed use, difference is less than 10%, and within 6 months/6k miles already has had DPF EGT sensor replaced under warranty.

But until diesel price matches petrol price abroad more closely than current 16%-25% depending on country, diesel still makes sense for frequent Europe crossing, even with the DPF. Plus with the small fuel tanks, most petrol cars range is inadequate at high speed.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by dieselV6

[sidewaze samm]

Every time I read a post like this one from dieselV6 - I wonder what the hell does this guy do? Incredibly long, high speed, virtually transcontinental night time drives. Sure sounds interesting, and fun (to start with at least).

So, come on diesel... spill the beans.

cheers

[Jigger72]

I can't quite believe that the Jag XF 2.7 didn't feel special or quick enough :S

I know the Superb's good, but …

Jag XF = 207 BHP and 320lb ft torque. 1850kg

Skoda Superb Edition 100 = 160BHP and 258lb ft torque. 1706kg

If I had the money though it would be an Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo

[dieselV6]

Every time I read a post like this one from dieselV6 - I wonder what the hell does this guy do? Incredibly long, high speed, virtually transcontinental night time drives. Sure sounds interesting, and fun (to start with at least).

So, come on diesel... spill the beans.

cheers

No mystery really, IT contracts all over Central and Northern Europe, occassional holidays (incl Italy and Greece), plus family in 3 different countries abroad. Add the 3 together and you get the picture. For work weekly travel I tend to use planes, but inevitably from time to time a bigger transport is required and own car is always useful at the destination.

My current contract is local in the UK, though, so this year I went abroad "only" 5 times. But to give you an idea how busy it can get, I think 4 years ago I bought 3x10 Eurotunnel crossings and used 28 of them (they are only valid for a year!). My car is backup for the plane. Remember the volcanic ash cloud and grounded flights? It was right after kids holidays, that Sunday I did 1010miles, carried out oil change service (at 5:30am! ), slept for 6 hours and went to South Germany (850miles) same day. My kid's wouldn't have made it to school for another 3 days had it not been for using the car.

As for driving quick, it is actually a neccessity (on top of being good fun). If you want to drive 1000m+ distances without hotel stopovers, you need to travel with fewest traffic jams and at speed, so at night. If you choose the right autobahns, you can max out the car's speed for hours at a time, with little or no traffic. Though a good travel rule is if you are doing 120mph+ and see a car ahead of you with less than 2 lanes available for you, let go of accelerator, air drag will reduce speed enough, no need for brakes. Saves nasty surprises. It also pays to check motorway roadworks before you depart, as Germans tend to recondition a 50m+ parts of motorway in one go. If you do not plan route ahead, you may find suddenly roadworks every 5 miles, and 6-8 of them.

I used to take North Sea and Baltic ferries to cut down on driving time, but found them unreliable, slow, and expensive. Now I only use them on family holiday trips.

Longest single drive so far: Holiday trip out UK - Italy via Switzerland to catch ferry to Greece, 1450 miles, though this one was a bit much. But we had return trip planned with stopovers in Vienna and Sinsheim/Speyer technical museums (there's a 747 and a Russian Space Shuttle there, and a decent sport cars collection too) after a spell in Greece, plus the car came in handy for sightseeing in Greece.

UK - Sweden via the Denmark Bridges, and UK-Vienna are both about 950m and these are typical distances I cover. Though Sweden/Denmark are slower to drive through due to speed limit enforcement. I also travel to Poland and South Germany quite often, and vary the routes across France and BeNeLux to avoid getting bored.

[Cown]

Rarely any police in Denmark, so go for it...

[dieselV6]

Actually, they do seem to sit next to German border at night, a van overtook me once and a mile later flashing lights etc and the van stopped. Friendly neighbour service?

[bussty]

Stick with Skoda you won't go wrong. I loved the old Saab 90/900/9000's but the later stuff was basically a Vectra with a different badge.

[JonathanK]

I can't quite believe that the Jag XF 2.7 didn't feel special or quick enough :S

I know the Superb's good, but …

Jag XF = 207 BHP and 320lb ft torque. 1850kg

Skoda Superb Edition 100 = 160BHP and 258lb ft torque. 1706kg

If I had the money though it would be an Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo

Will at Performance Torque resolved the torque and bhp differentials for me. 186 & 310 ensure I keep up with the Jag rather well. As for special, my rear passengers appreciate the rear heated seats in the cold weather, the umbrella in the arm rest impresses the hell out of everyone that sees it and the rear leg room compared to an XF is cavernous.

That said, I might be tempted by a 3.0S XF Premium Luxury (for a sound system that can match the ED100 more than any other feature) when they come down to around the £15k mark in a year or 2. I can't see the Alpina D5 ever being within my reach unless it has starship miles.

[Cown]

Actually, they do seem to sit next to German border at night, a van overtook me once and a mile later flashing lights etc and the van stopped. Friendly neighbour service?

It's not the police. They are customs. In Denmark they are allowed to stop and check anyone, also empty your car if necessary hence the blue lights.

[sidewaze samm]

Diesel, I don't know how you do it - you must be a natural insomniac. I get tired driving 200miles to London! Mind you, the faster you go the easier it is to stay awake...

[allclownsareevi]

Diesel, I don't know how you do it - you must be a natural insomniac. I get tired driving 200miles to London! Mind you, the faster you go the easier it is to stay awake...

Listen to god awful music ... prodigy, pendulum and assorted dubstep. Works a treat.

[dieselV6]

I do prefer driving at night, and yes, the speed does focus attention on the road. Strong tea also helps towards end of the drive, works much better than coffee/redbull/etc. Good music works better than bad one, as long as the pace is fast enough, and a comfortable car makes for the rest.