Branded v Supermarket ' Standard ' Diesel and DPF compatible Additives

[delta925]

When I bought my new 105PS 1.6CR TDi which I intend to keep for 10 years (or at least 100,000 miles if in the future my mileage increases significantly ) I decided to use branded fuel despite have run my previous 1.9PD on mostly Tesco diesel without issues and of course no ideas about the fuel used for the 74000 miles before I bought it.

My local Shell generally kept the price of their fuelsave no more than 2p/litre above the local Tesco and Sainsbury's hence this is what I have used other than two top-ups at Tesco and one at Jet when on holiday.

However when I went to fill up I found the Shell station was closed. The pumps and all signs have gone with no notices about re-opening after refurbishment so I assume it is closed for good.

Today I did fill up with Texaco at a reasonable price but that station is well off my regular routes. Their standard diesel had no branding either just a BS sticker like the supermarkets.

The only branded fuel I can get regularly now without going very far off my commute and local journeys will be BP and they are usually at least 4p/litre more than the supermarkets.

Hence realistically I stuck with the choice of Tesco, ASDA or Morrisons.

There is a Sainsburys probably no further off route than the Shell was but it is on a retail park with queues to get in, get to a pump and get out at any of the times convenient to me so I avoid the area as much as possible.

My first priority is looking after my car long term although with basic living costs outstripping headline inflation and wage increases mpg comes a close second.

Looking quickly at additives only Millers Diesel Power Ecomax http://www.millersoi...=227&sector=Car

seems to be clearly DPF compatible and intended for continual use.

Buying it in 5 litre tins works out at around 1.5p/litre so similar to the cost of Shell fuelsave over supermarket diesel but significantly less than BP regular diesel

As I read it BG244 is intended to be added occasionally as cleaner not used continually.

I would rather stick to one new formula so as not to confuse the ECU. Given the local competition long term ASDA or Morrisons will probably be the cheapest rather than Tesco.

I would be interested to know other members experiences with the different supermarket fuels and if adding Millers Ecomax is worthwhile or even worse actually detrimental to the DPF?

[mr rooney]

My take on this subject is adding millers or diesel rhino to supermarket fuel brings it up to v power quality and it's cheaper. That's what I've read and I believe it as I've used Asda diesel with millers and it's feels exactly the same as v power if not better.

[James I]

I only use BP ultimate, DPF is fine and I use it more for Nectar points than for the car.

I think this might have been covered before elsewhere on the forum.

[seboni121]

Use vpower or similar and get this

http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/product.php/3/bg-244-diesel-fuel-cleaner

[Matt Pez]

Buy the cheapest fuel you can lay your hands on and as long as you give the car a good run at motorway speeds for say 30 mins at least once a week, you should not have any dpf problems. All fuel has to meet BS regulations and car manufacturers design fuel systems accordingly so branded ultimate, optimax or additives, etc, are just a con, don't be brainwashed by adverts!

[seboni121]

Brainwashed? No I've used the bg244 and it does work ! , well that might be just the placebo effect lol

[CRASH67]

Buy the cheapest fuel you can lay your hands on and as long as you give the car a good run at motorway speeds for say 30 mins at least once a week, you should not have any dpf problems. All fuel has to meet BS regulations and car manufacturers design fuel systems accordingly so branded ultimate, optimax or additives, etc, are just a con, don't be brainwashed by adverts!

A harsh comment to say least.

I do believe the 97>99RON fuels are superior in its make up. And are not just a marketing ploy.

The problems not really the fuel companies "brainwashing" people, more a lack of understanding of Fuel at thier cars,

The way i see things is simple. (Correct me if im wrong)

Using my Fabia as an example, 1.2tsi 86monte

The booklet and inside the fuel flap states the car requires 95ron fuel,

Meaning the car is designed to deal with any fuel with a min 95RON (baiscally standard unleaded fuel). Now while the premium fuel may have added benifits it unlikey i will notice any huge benifits with out keeping track on my MPG (and tbh i have better thing to do lol then measure it all the time apart from the odd glance) there for why spend the --pence per litre on it.

Now i know some people prefer to use the premuim stuff if it your prefrance go ahead.

The only time the premium stuff is required is high end cars. I know people who have had problems runnin Evos and scoobys on anything less then premuim fuels, so use them as must rather then choice.

As for brands i think most fuels come from the same refinery, but are they all the same im not so sure, ive heard about more issue with supermarket fuels then i have with brands like BP Shell.

Now i normally fill up at either Texeco, Esso or BP, shell (as all are on routes i use,

There is Asda 500yards away from the BP i use which is 2-3p cheaper but very often is very busy, which tbh id rather pay an extra 2-3 pence a litre then wait 10mins jus to get to a pump.

[Carlodiesel]

Delta925

Why don’t you send Your post to Skoda customer services, and see what they say about it?

Personally I use mostly supermarket fuel, unless other locals are within a 1p. Had my Yaris diesel for 82000 miles no probs.

So have thousands of other people.

So the market fuel can't be that bad.

If you are overly bothered add the fuel cleaner every 5th tank full. But I would not bother i-m-o.

[TeebsVRS]

Delta925

Why don’t you send Your post to Skoda customer services, and see what they say about it?

Personally I use mostly supermarket fuel, unless other locals are within a 1p. Had my Yaris diesel for 82000 miles no probs.

So have thousands of other people.

So the market fuel can't be that bad.

If you are overly bothered add the fuel cleaner every 5th tank full. But I would not bother i-m-o.

Don't be shy

I know Morrisons use a larger percentage of biodiesel than most? Heard that isn't great for the new dpf technology. Personally I'd try supermarket fuel for a while and see if the dpf responds negatively, and change to branded if it started playing up.

[seboni121]

Delta925

Why don’t you send Your post to Skoda customer services, and see what they say about it?

Personally I use mostly supermarket fuel, unless other locals are within a 1p. Had my Yaris diesel for 82000 miles no probs.

So have thousands of other people.

So the market fuel can't be that bad.

If you are overly bothered add the fuel cleaner every 5th tank full. But I would not bother i-m-o.

No need every 5 th tank , once every 10k is all it needs of BG 244

[Carlodiesel]

Quote "No need every 5 th tank , once every 10k is all it needs of BG 244 "

WHAT. I was told I would get 10K to every 5 tank fulls.!!!! LOL.

[Matt Pez]

Crash67 is also going off topic, this is about diesel, not unleaded, obviously 99 ron has more power than 97 ron, but diesel to the same BS is all the same wherever you get it from. IMO!

[Jim H]

Crash67 is also going off topic, this is about diesel, not unleaded, obviously 99 ron has more power than 97 ron, but diesel to the same BS is all the same wherever you get it from. IMO!

Wrong

Different diesels have different Cetane ratings, which is a simular sort of thing to Octane. The higher the cetane number the more the better. Also different companies use different additives/detergents. You can buy Super Diesel.

Edited 27 January, 2013 by Jim H

[CRASH67]

Crash67 is also going off topic, this is about diesel, not unleaded, obviously 99 ron has more power than 97 ron, but diesel to the same BS is all the same wherever you get it from. IMO!

Granted slightly off topic but i was petrol as an example as iam more familer with it in terms of octane and effects

But same basic principal in my eyes

As mentioned (super diesels) or premuim diesels are available and the simple basis of trades description act blah blah would allow the same fuel to be traded as two different sorts (ie standard and premuim)

And varying standards of diesel between supermarks and big brands does happen.

I work in the motor trade with commercial vehicles and have seen several issues with vehicles running on supermarket fuel its not a massive problem in terms of numbers BUT does happen

[philhoward]

Are you confusing "Dinosaur" diesel with Bio-diesel (or bio-mix - which I think Morrisons and possibly Sainsburys were selling for a while)? Bio-diesel does cause some very strange things sometimes - like cleaning all the internal deposits from tanks and lines (and in some cases growing things in the tank) but thats normally only a problem seen by vehicles which have run on "Dinosaur" diesel for 100k+ miles then switch over.

[seboni121]

Bio diesels kills DPF systems that's why I run the best fuel I can and add BG244

[raisbeck]

Biodiesel is harmless to DPF. In fact its better than dinodiesel as its got no sulfur.

What isnt so good is that post fuel regen which can sometimes dilute the engine oil is worse with biodiesel as it doesnt vapour off so easily as dinodiesel.

Its also a good cleaner and a better internal lubricant for your HP pump...not that my PD has one.

For those that like the taste of millers its just Naptha, 2 ethyl hexyl nitrate (cetane boster) in a suspension of Kerosene. Harmless to DPF with benefits open to opinion. Personally I don't think you can beat a good long blast down the fast lane at high revs to keep it clear. Mine gets that every day and after 67K is better than ever.

EDIT: All forecourt diesel has up to 7% biodiesel anyway. (EN590)

Edited 28 January, 2013 by raisbeck

[J18VRS]

Fuel should have no or very little effect on a DPF's operation. As long as the vehicle is driven for at 15 -20 minute peroid at a constant speed 50 -70 mph speed every week or sop there should never be a problem

[littleade]

If anybody's interested I've seen Millers on ebay at £9.75 with free postage for a 500ml bottle

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170941323656?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

seller has 100% feedback

[CRASH67]

The whole biodiesel think im not sure on... Im sure ive seem some manufactures advice against using biodiesel in some vehicles (this maybe earlier models that designed with out biodiesel in mind tho) :/

[fluffmeister]

Buy the cheapest fuel you can lay your hands on and as long as you give the car a good run at motorway speeds for say 30 mins at least once a week, you should not have any dpf problems. All fuel has to meet BS regulations and car manufacturers design fuel systems accordingly so branded ultimate, optimax or additives, etc, are just a con, don't be brainwashed by adverts!

I wouldn't agree, I get around 40 - 60 miles per tank more out of V-Power than out of regular diesel (depending on where / how I'm driving), and then with double shell points get a decent whack back at the end of a quarter with a fuel voucher. (£13 last quarter).

If I'm not in the mood to buy V-Power, I use Shell Fuel save, which is the same price at my local Shell forecourt as the 2 x Tesco fuel stations that flank it.

As for brainwashing, I think people are brainwashed by fuel prices, as above, my local Shell is consistently priced around the same and often lower than the Tesco express, and the Tesco superstore that flank it. Just because it's from a Supermarket, does not make it cheaper!

[CRASH67]

I wouldn't agree, I get around 40 - 60 miles per tank more out of V-Power than out of regular diesel (depending on where / how I'm driving), and then with double shell points get a decent whack back at the end of a quarter with a fuel voucher. (£13 last quarter).

If I'm not in the mood to buy V-Power, I use Shell Fuel save, which is the same price at my local Shell forecourt as the 2 x Tesco fuel stations that flank it.

As for brainwashing, I think people are brainwashed by fuel prices, as above, my local Shell is consistently priced around the same and often lower than the Tesco express, and the Tesco superstore that flank it. Just because it's from a Supermarket, does not make it cheaper!

I would agree,

Here in Sittingbourne we now have a morrisons BP and Asda with in 700 yards of each other the difference 3p (MAX)

And before the mortisons opened people would que for up to 10mibs for petrol @ asda then drive 30secs to the BP which was 2p more expensive?? Now with out getting in to the nitty gritty of exact figures but waiting in a que with engine on or keep start/stoping the engine, for any longer then a 5mins must surely wipe out what your attempting to save lol

[JakeBlade]

If it's a quieter engine and cleaner burn you're after, then you need a high cetane rating in your diesel. Shell Fuelsave has a high cetane rating (higher even than their own V-power). If you have a quiet engine anyway (i.e. CR) then you may not notice / appreciate much difference in noise and vibration. However, if you have a clattery old PD engine, then try running a couple of tanks of Shell Fuelsave and see if you notice any difference. Mine was night and day, when I started using Fuelsave combined with Millers Ecomax (a cetane booster). I am a big fan of the stuff.

Gooooogle "cetane" and make your own mind up.

[JakeBlade]

The whole biodiesel think im not sure on... Im sure ive seem some manufactures advice against using biodiesel in some vehicles (this maybe earlier models that designed with out biodiesel in mind tho) :/

Biodiesel is great for cleaning out the fuel system, but not great when your fuel is actually the lubricant for components in a fuel pump embedded in your tank.

Because biodiesel is so great at clearing out your fuel system, all that muck needs to go somewhere... your fuel filter. So, with increasing proportions of biodiesel in the fuel blend, it will unfortunately lead to a shorter fuel filter life as they will get clogged up more quickly. Unfortunately when the engine struggles to get fuel through the clogged filter, some people will end up taking their cars to the garage for diagnostics. Rather than paying £30 for a fuel filter, they will pay more like an hour of diagnostics plus a fuel filter.

Moral of the story: be prepared to change your fuel filter more frequently going forward, as more and more biodiesel will be added to our diesel going forward to meet carbon targets.

Edited 30 January, 2013 by JakeBlade

[delta925]

Thank you to all who have replied.

Regarding bio-diesel without specific information about the volume content of it in the various brands we can not use it as a factor when choosing which to buy or avoid.

As in my original post I do not to want to need a part to replacing in a few years time as a result of my fuel choice generating more deposits or a lack of lubrication.

Without both travelling off route and paying more ASDA or Tesco are my choices.

ASDA on average slightly cheaper but offset by Clubcard points from Tesco.

I would incur the least additional miles switching to BP and would be paying 3-4 p/litre more for standard and then the surcharge for Ultimate.

I've never tried any of the premium fuels as most of my mileage being my commute on busy roads and local trips so little opportunity to exploit any performance benefits.

My current thinking is the cheapest fuel plus Millers Ecomax.

Assuming the local Shell has closed for good I wonder if the reason was because they kept the price close to the supermarkets, and lower than the two others in the area I pass occasionally, it was less profitable than other stations despite being busy.

Edited 1 February, 2013 by delta925