Problem gearbox

[Samba]

3000 miles and I'm on my second gearbox but with continuing problems.First thing in the morning,cannot get into first gear and reverse still crunches even after holding clutch down for up to 20 seconds.Garage cannot find the problem and Skodas tech people obviously haven't got a clue as their solution is to do 1000 miles on this box to see if the problem goes away.Very unhappy but what can I do?

[Owens]

How long have you had the car. If it is a short time say 4-6 months I would reject the car citing that you have done all theyasked and given them reasaonable time to sort out the problem.Quote trading standards not fit for purpose?

[leckman]

I was considering the Citigo as my next car but tales of woe about the gear box is starting to put me off.Theres about 8 pages about the manual box on the Up! owners website so its not just an isolated case.

[Feebet]

I was considering the Citigo as my next car but tales of woe about the gear box is starting to put me off.Theres about 8 pages about the manual box on the Up! owners website so its not just an isolated case.

Have you driven one leckman ?

If not, why not borrow one from your dealer and see for yourself rather than read up on other peoples criticism. There are probably more happy owners than unhappy ones.

What you have to remember is that if you have come from any mainstream car before to the Citigo / Mii / Up! you will definitely notice a difference. Mainly due to the compact size and lack of sound proofing you do tend to hear the mechanics of the car more easily.

No problems with our gearbox

[Owens]

The problem is you always hear people moaning (not saying you are moaning Samba) about this and that but seldom hear about all the good ones.

Unfortunatly for Samba yours is not a good one?

Leckman as Feebet says don't listen/look at the gossip try before you buy.

[leckman]

No,I have not tried one,fair comment but I am not ignoring the concern and yes, moans from the Up! website and some on here of the build quality of the gearbox.I am pretty sure if your car was on its second gearbox and still having problems you would be complaining,moaning etc and damn right too !.

[Feebet]

No,I have not tried one,fair comment but I am not ignoring the concern and yes, moans from the Up! website and some on here of the build quality of the gearbox.I am pretty sure if your car was on its second gearbox and still having problems you would be complaining,moaning etc and damn right too !.

If my car was on its second gearbox and still having similar problems I would be doubting it's a problem with the gearbox TBH. Might be something else ?

[Owens]

Strange that it only happens first thing in the morning? At what point does the clutch bite when its working ok?

I take it the Citigo has a cable clutch system so broken cable/clutch adjuster system?

[MikeW]

I agree, go and have a test drive and see. My gearbox is great. It does make a bit of a clattering noise, but never really had a problem with gear selection at all.

[CFB]

3000 miles and I'm on my second gearbox but with continuing problems.First thing in the morning,cannot get into first gear and reverse still crunches even after holding clutch down for up to 20 seconds.Garage cannot find the problem and Skodas tech people obviously haven't got a clue as their solution is to do 1000 miles on this box to see if the problem goes away.Very unhappy but what can I do?

So how far from fully depressed, does the clutch bite, the first time you use the car in the mornings?

Is it at the bottom of its travel, in the middle, or at the top?

I don't think pressing the clutch and waiting a while is going to help.

Engineering head on...

Materials contract when cold and expand when heated.

First thing in the morning the engine is at its coldest so there is the greatest play between components, perhaps causing your issue.

When the engine is up to temperature, components expand leaving optimum operating tolerances so the problem goes away.

It sounds to me like there are tolerance issues and I would guess that they are in the clutch and not the gearbox?

Was a new clutch and thrust bearing fitted when the new gearbox was installed?

I would be asking the question and having the whole clutch assembly (pressure plate, clutch plate, flywheel, thrust bearing and lever) replaced as a next step.

Good luck with this and don't give up, on what is a great little car, just yet.

[Samba]

Thanks to all for your input. I have told the dealership that I believe the clutch to be the problem but Skoda have banned them from any further work until the new box has had done 1000 miles.(no new clutch parts fitted with new box).Will come back when I have done the miles.

[bluecar1]

if skoda banned further work for 1000 miles, then only one answer to that

GET OUT ON THE ROAD and rack up the miles, couple of circuits of the circular carpark(m25) should sort that challenge for you

[CFB]

Thanks to all for your input. I have told the dealership that I believe the clutch to be the problem but Skoda have banned them from any further work until the new box has had done 1000 miles.(no new clutch parts fitted with new box).Will come back when I have done the miles.

So it seems the clutch is the most likely culprit then.

A bluecar said, get the miles done as soon as you can.

I'll have a fiver on the problem still being there.

[bluecar1]

clutch dragging seems most likely, and that will cause additional wear on the sychro rings of the gearbox as well

[Ootohere]

It is going to be a costly false economy if SKODA approved a new gearbox but tried to save by not having a new clutch fitted.

They gambled the price of a cost price Clutch kit with a new gearbox against now the hourly rate of having to remove the gearbox and do the clutch anyway.

Be sure to charge them for all out of pocket expenses.

Travel to and from dealerships, calls and time etc.

Their attempt at money saving, or the Workshops in not fitting the new clutch if that was approved should not inconvenience you or cost you any extra penny.

The warranty came with the OTR price of the car, you can expect normal Running, servicing costs.

You paid for a usable car for transportation, it has failed and this needs sorting properly and promptly.

This is Manufacturing or design fault, and time will tell with others vehicles of any failure rate.

I would Call SKODA UK today,

say the vehicle is being dropped off at a Dealership and for them to arrange a courtesy car.

If the vehicle can not be returned promptly fault free, reject it now, rather than later.

They had an attempt at getting the Merchantable Quality right, and made a half hearted attempt.

The vehicle does not require 1000 miles of running to be found if operating and repaired correctly.

You are not a test driver for VAG/SKODA.

The Head Tech at the workshop can drive the car and tell if the repair worked or not.

He can take the car out in the morning if that is when the problem is.

(or just assume the position and let VAG away with their taking the pith out of customers.)

george

[leckman]

Just been on the What Car? website,they are running a high up! as a fleet car and the guy running it has been in touch with VW about the number or people moaning about the noisy gear box on the up! owners website.VW say they are looking into the matter but,no mechanical defects have been found are putting it down to owners downsizing to the up! and are use to better soundproofing in their previous cars.

[tirnanog]

Just been on the What Car? website,they are running a high up! as a fleet car and the guy running it has been in touch with VW about the number or people moaning about the noisy gear box on the up! owners website.VW say they are looking into the matter but,no mechanical defects have been found are putting it down to owners downsizing to the up! and are use to better soundproofing in their previous cars.

Here http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/our-cars-volkswagen-up/264010

[shrub]

This soundproofing comment from VW sounds a bit suspect to me. Both my wife and my mother have UP's, one manual and one ASG gearbox. Both are noticeably quieter than any other city car I have been in and the gearboxes are fine in each.

[Ootohere]

Anyone' looking into matters' and being told that 'no mechanical defects have been found'

usually have not been given the true information from the likes of VAG on cases like the one in this thread where there was a mechanical defect which meant VAG approved the replacement of a gearbox.

Some people might complain of noises, and those are just noises,

but mechanical defects are just that when they occur.

Common on many vehicle types but with the internet, buyers/owners can make the wider public aware of them and Manufacturers can less likely get away with the Emu or 3 Monkeys position of old.

'What Car' should plainly be asking, 'How many Up!, Citigo or Mii Gearboxes have actually required Warranty work or Gearbox Replacement?

Not asking the Media or Sales Departments but the Technical Departments.

'None ('no mechanical defects') would be Zero faulty vehicles, this thread is about 1 replaced gearbox.

So is that no faulty VW Up!'s but there are faulty Skoda Citigo's ?

george

[Guest]

Coming in a bit late on this one and agree with CFB and Bluecar. I can tell you I have come across this problem many times when teching. I'm staggered that, unless there was evidence of a faulty output shaft on the gearbox, that a garage would think it's a gearbox problem when most experienced techs would know (in my opinion) that it's more commonly a clutch problem. Whilst not exactly an everyday thing you see in the workshop, it does happen that when cold a clutch disc can stick on the gearbox output shaft splines. This can be due to all sorts but most commonly it's due too much lubricant on the output shaft (yes I know many are fitted dry these days), an incorrectly machined clutch disc hub (undersize and being slightly too tight on the shaft at cold temps), or a faulty clutch cover assembly preventing full disengagement of the clutch disc from the flywheel when cold. I once had an incorrectly machined flywheel causing this problem too. When this fault occurs it usually only happens once or twice first thing in the morning, and it won't happen again all day unless the vehicle is left for several hours or overnight in a cold environment. It usually cannot be reproduced at the garage unless you leave the vehicle overnight with them and give their best tech instructions on what exactly the problem is. Then let him do his stuff to reproduce the fault. The good news is that this fault won't in any way harm the syncro cones or gears during normal driving in the daytime. In fact most often you can prevent the problem occuring at all by carefull selecting first gear before going into reverse first thing in the morning. Be gentle. Try it and see. It's very cheap and easy to replace the clutch so I would jump up and down if you haven't already done so as George is suggesting. I'm with him on this one. Good luck buddy. Let us know what is happening and ask for more help if you need it.

Edited 6 March, 2013 by Estate Man

[Guest]

Samba, forgot to mention that first thing in the mornings if you pump the clutch up and down a few times it can lessen the stiction of the clutch disc on it's splines and make first gear selection easier. That is, in most cases! That way you don't have to cause a crunch or force anything.

[firstcarcitigo]

3000 miles and I'm on my second gearbox but with continuing problems.First thing in the morning,cannot get into first gear and reverse still crunches even after holding clutch down for up to 20 seconds.Garage cannot find the problem and Skodas tech people obviously haven't got a clue as their solution is to do 1000 miles on this box to see if the problem goes away.Very unhappy but what can I do?

I've been having this problem, but i havent had to replace the gearbox as of yet. For me it still does it when its warm as well, Samba does your gearbox struggle to get into reverse as well as the crunching?

[CFB]

Samba, any update?

Covered the mileage yet?

[Samba]

Hello again. New gearbox fitted after doing the 1000miles. that Skoda insisted upon. Picked up the car up on Saturday, having been assured by the dealers that they had cured the problem.Tried the car on Sunday morning to find that there was no change, still the same problems with 1st gear and reverse in the mornings. Now on its 3rd gearbox. Phoned dealership and looking to book it back in when courtesy car available. Skoda Customer Care due to phone me this week. Beginning to lose my patience after 2 months and now 5 visits to garage.

[CFB]

So I'm guessing they didn't test the car under the circumstances you told them the fault occurs?

I don't see the point of that.

How can they say they have fixed it when proper testing hasn't been carried out.

Next step.. I would insist that all components of the clutch and flywheel are replaced as soon as possible.

I would also be seeking some sort of compensation from SUK.

Free servicing and/or extended warranty spring to mind.

And don't let them fob you off a third time, they have had two attempts and failed.

Tell them that if they fail to rectify the fault at the next visit you will reject the car and expect it to be replaced.

A visit to CAB might help you too.