Am I right in thinking you need to add the cost of leasing the batteries to a Fluence?

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/RENAULT/FLUENCE/433072

Am I right in thinking you need to add the cost of leasing the batteries to a Fluence?

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/RENAULT/FLUENCE/433072

 

Yes, that's one of the reasons both the Renault Fluence and now the ZOE have not taken off so well as the LEAF, apparently.

You can only buy one on a battery lease.

Where the LEAF you could only buy outright, but now you can do either.

 

The Fluence is cheap for what it is, but is let down by no rapid charge port.  So it's a slow charger only.

Meanwhile I see Tesla has had a "battery-impacting accident"... http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/03/tesla-says-model-s-fire-started-in-li-ion-battery-share-prices/

Meanwhile I see Tesla has had a "battery-impacting accident"... http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/03/tesla-says-model-s-fire-started-in-li-ion-battery-share-prices/

 

Yes, Tesla shares have dropped about 10% in two days.

Although they have gone up over 400% in the last six months...

Got myself a new gadget via the leaftalk forum.

 

Nice little unit that plugs into the diagnostic port and gives you more info on your battery so you can monitor it's health better.

 

 

 

The battery reaches peak capacity at around +30c.  About 281 GIDs.

 

As you can see I have 279 GIDs and at +22c have over 98% capacity.

 

I'll be keeping an eye on this now to see how it goes over time.

Surprisingly people on the leaftalk forum are not seeing much loss of battery capacity, even after a year or two.

Meanwhile I see Tesla has had a "battery-impacting accident"... http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/03/tesla-says-model-s-fire-started-in-li-ion-battery-share-prices/

 

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-fire

 

Not a lot (or any other) company that I know of would publish info like this to reassure they're customers

Tomorrow I have a test drive in a Tesla Model S.

Left hand drive one from Europe as no RHD ones yet...

 

Should be interesting.

Look forward to the feedback !

Today I went to Maidenhead to test drive the Telsa Model S.
I've broken this down into sections to make it easier to read.

Initial impression of the car, outside:
They are using an underground dimly lit car park and the car is dark grey.
In short, it's not the best combination and the car does not look particulary impressive.
The test drive guy is very pleasent and very helpful. He does come across as someone who really believes in the product and knows a lot about it.
The slots for test drives are an hour apart, meaning that by 1pm the car was a bit dirty inside and out, I got there as the last people were leaving.
Before setting off it didn't give me the wow factor.
I did mention that white would be a lot better, but apparently the white one they were using was no longer available due to a previous test driver's unfamiliarity with left hand drive...
On the grey one, the steering wheel was wonky by about fifteen degrees. Not what you'd expect on a test drive of any car.

Initial impression of the car, inside:
The dash display is very impressive and the large touchscreen is imposing, making it look futuristic.
The rest of the interior does not feel like it's from an £80,000 car. It feels to me like it's from a £40,000 car and you are paying for the drivetrain.
The leather did not feel to me to be of particularly high quality, it's quite similar to an Audi A6 or BMW 5 series.
It's does have a leather covered dash though, which is nice, and the steering column feels of high quality.
The seating position is also fairly low for a family car. Noticably lower than in my LEAF. Similar to the GT-R.

Driving performance:
No surprises here, it's very quick. It's actually quicker than it feels due to very good suspension, insulation from noise and it's heavy kerbweight.
Under harsh cornering you can feel the weight, but it's well balanced and needs to be provoked before you feel the weight pushing the car a different direction to where you are pointing the steering wheel.
In real world driving I'd be very surprised if many cars can keep up with a P85+ Model S, I did several track days in my 600bhp GT-R and this would be a fair match for it on the road due to it's instant power delivery and no need to wind the engine up for peak performance. Put your foot down at 50mph and I'd expect them both to get similar times to reach 100mph.

Refinement:
At 70mph it's very quiet. Quieter than my Nissan LEAF in fact as there is less wind and tyre noise, which I suspect is due to better insulation.
This car would make a great mile muncher as it's comfortable, very quiet and easy to drive.
It's everything you expect it to be, baring in mind it's an EV from the top end of the spectrum and it's got air suspension.

Size:
This was one of my concerns, being an American car would it be too big for UK roads.
Well, it is quite big. But it's not huge. If you spend a fair amount of time on country lanes or visit car parks where you park side by side with other cars you are going to feel a bit squeezed on occasion. It's a similar size to other premium cars in the price bracket it's going to occupy.

Final impression after the test drive:
The staff member doing the test drives clearly knows his product well and is helpful.
But the test drive is let down by the location, the high use rate of the car and the fact it's been bounced of a kerb at some stage leading to a wonky steering wheel.
It's an impressive machine, there is no doubt about that.
But it's also not a cheap machine and the interior may be OK in a £50k-£55k base spec Model S but I feel it's not really good enough for the P85+ badge and cost that will be around £80k-£85k.
If you are buying one you also must spec the tech package in my opinion, as well as the sunroof if you are tall.
I am 6'3" and my head would be around 1cm from the rooflining if it didn't have the sunroof which adds another 3-4cm of headroom.

Would you have one?
I currently have had a deposit down on one since December 2012.
It's a nice car and I would have one. But I'd want the performance model because otherwise you are missing out on part of the complete package, that being the great performance.
The question is, would you pay £80k-£85k for one?
Really, I'm not sure I would at this stage a few hours after the test drive.
It's very nice and it's impressive, but other than the fancy displays it's not a special place to be. It's just a regular premium car inside.
Part of this lack of the wow factor I put down to the drab colour of the car and the fact that I already own an EV so the silence and instant torque didn't come as a great surprise.
No doubt it's a lot better than a Nissan LEAF, but then at well over the double the price it should be.
Would you pay more than double top-spec LEAF money for a longer range to cover the odd trips you do that require forward planning and a few charging stops (or the hire of an ICE in some areas lacking chargers) ?
I'm not sure I would...

I was expecting to be wowed. I wasn't.
Maybe I was expecting too much because all the tests I've seen so far raved about it.

 

I am now feeling a bit disappointed as there seems to be nothing out there that really interests me, that I'm looking forward to building up to.

Good review. And remember what I said about a dodgem car having a better interior? Well now you felt it. I was utterly underwhelmed by the two I sat in inside. Very rough. And as nice as that screen is it is just too overpowering.

One of the two I was in was white. And in white you're right it looks good. But it looks perfectly good in the way a current Astra does. That's a perfectly nice car, beautiful details, great proportions but would you want an Astra? Nope it just does no have that "something" special. And I'm just talking design and looks here NOT the Vauxhall badge. The Tesla is pretty. But that "something" is missing. Unless the amazing performance is what you're after? How many people clocked the car on the road?

...

The rest of the interior does not feel like it's from an £80,000 car. It feels to me like it's from a £40,000 car and you are paying for the drivetrain.

...

Was this the Tesla office opposite the railway station? Yes, seems an odd place for a luxury car HQ!

 

Fully concur that this is a US idea of luxury car, and yes I would expect the drivetrain to be the main part of the cost. It really is a "luxury goods" at this point IMHO. What seems to be missing is something between the Leaf / AmperaVolt and Tesla in the market.

How many people clocked the car on the road?

 

Hardly any, but then it just looks like a big Jag really, and it was drab grey.

 

Was this the Tesla office opposite the railway station? Yes, seems an odd place for a luxury car HQ!

 

Fully concur that this is a US idea of luxury car, and yes I would expect the drivetrain to be the main part of the cost. It really is a "luxury goods" at this point IMHO. What seems to be missing is something between the Leaf / AmperaVolt and Tesla in the market.

 

Yes, that's the place.

Hopefully the Telsa "Gen3" car which will be the third new model after the S and X will be as good as people are expecting.

That's set to be the family car in the range, after the luxury and minivan.

Wow, new base Leaf £11K - that won't help residuals!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/best-car-deals-nissan-leaf-ford-focus-audi-a3-volkswagen-golf

Plus battery rental on top.

That's not bad - £10,800.

 

Deal of the week

Frankly, we couldn't believe our eyes when we saw this deal for the Nissan Leaf. Drive the Deal is currently offering a 5-door Visia Flex model for £10,831 - which is a massive saving on the £20,989 list price and also includes the Government's £5000 electric vehicle grant. If you can prove you own a previous-generation Nissan Leaf or Toyota Prius, however, things get even better, as you get an extra discount, which means you end up with a final price of just £9879.10.

Remember that Flex models of the Leaf require you to lease the battery from Nissan, however, which starts at £70 per month for three years and gives you an annual mileage limit of 7500.

These are just a selection of the best deals we found this week. 

Wow, new base Leaf £11K - that won't help residuals!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/best-car-deals-nissan-leaf-ford-focus-audi-a3-volkswagen-golf

 

 

Plus battery rental on top.

 

 

 

That's not bad - £10,800.

 

Deal of the week

Frankly, we couldn't believe our eyes when we saw this deal for the Nissan Leaf. Drive the Deal is currently offering a 5-door Visia Flex model for £10,831

 

 

Just one slight problem...

 

The reporting is wrong.

 

The drive the deal price didn't used to include the £5,000 grand, so there is a message saying you get £5,000 off on top from the government.

Well, DtD have now changed this meaning the prices shown are what you pay.

But they HAVE NOT removed the message saying you get a further £5,000 off so it's showing you get the grant twice...

 

As I bought through drive the deal I know who the dealer is, I phoned him up to order another and he confirmed the website is wrong.

 

Oh, and that price also includes an incentive from Nissan for current LEAF owners...

 

But of course, Auto Car and the like seeing something that's too good to be true didn't even think about checking, they just copied it blindly.

 

Plus as mentioned, you can get the FLEX model for less if you want to pay for battery rental every month.

Interesting reading - "I'm living proof the Model S is the safest car ever made!";

 

http://www.treehugger.com/slideshows/cars/im-living-proof-model-s-safest-car-ever-made-electric-car-accident-photos/#slide-top

 

PS - Love the number plate

So Richard, are you likely to cancel your pre-order for the Model S?   And await the next gen Tesla?

Have you had any thoughts about the BMW i3? - seems to be well liked by the journos!

So Richard, are you likely to cancel your pre-order for the Model S?   And await the next gen Tesla?

 

Yes, it's just not worth it for the novelty factor.  Plus I can't get over the cheap leather seats and low rent interior for the price once you look beyond the 17" touchscreen.

 

Looking at my use since I got the LEAF on the 5th September.

3006 miles in an EV at a total cost of around £20 with work charging.

119 miles in my Yeti, 80 of which the same day as I didn't want to get stuck in the car park at Brands Hatch as it was a mud bath, so used only as it's 4x4. (taking out the Castle Combe Track Day)

That's about 96% EV and 4% 4x4/towing vehicle.

 

Even with the Tesla I couldn't have taken it to Brands as it would have sunk faster than the leaf being 500kg heavier.

 

So the LEAF suits the vast majority of my driving... and it's bought and paid for at £23k instead of a very expensive Tesla.

Rapid Charger network is improving all the time too, at the end of the month Ikea will switch on one at every store.

 

Have you had any thoughts about the BMW i3? - seems to be well liked by the journos!

 

Yes, demo cars (that are real i3, not drivetrain in another car) arrive 16th November, I've got a test drive booked within a week of that.

Need to look at the charging infrastructure though.  Options up the price quickly too.  Typical premium car trick.

Just seen an advert for the i3, with the i5(?) next to it at the start.

 

Why are electrics always styled with the CD of a brick?

Why are electrics always styled with the CD of a brick?

 

Are they?

I must have missed that.

 

Nissan LEAF is not brick shaped and has a drag coefficient 0.28, old model was 0.29.

BMW i3 is 0.29 and the Tesla Model S is 0.24.

That's the only three mainstream electric cars that I am aware of that are (or soon will be) for sale in the UK, other than the ZOE which I quite frankly don't care about so can't be bothered to go and find the CD for it and spend time doing so.

 

Skoda Octavia (the new one) is Around the same as the LEAF, BMW i3 at 0.29-0.3

 

Is the new Octavia styled with the CD of a brick too?

I didn't think it was.

Perhaps they just look like it. IMO.

Perhaps they just look like it. IMO.

 

The BMW i3 is the most square looking to me, but if you look closely it's actually quite rounded at the lights etc... so it may be an optical illusion.

The BMW i3 is the most square looking to me, but if you look closely it's actually quite rounded at the lights etc... so it may be an optical illusion.

First thing Mrs said is "oooh BMW are doing electr..... thats fecking ugly"

 

She likes the Leaf over a prius, but a home charging point isnt possible so kills it dead.