modifications Insurance warning

[JB-)]

All those options therefore are covered in the value the car is insured for. There is no need to cover them again.

It doesn't matter what you tell them the value of the car is, the extras are no automatically covered. When it comes to paying out they just look at the current market value of the equivalent car and pay about that. If you haven't declared all the extras they will take the value the basic model without any of the factory options, and on some vehicles that can make quite a difference. They don't charge any extra premium for telling them about factory fitted extras. It's just for info if you have to make claim.

The build sticker on my skoda (stock) has about 15 different option and build codes on it. Do you go through and explain to them what each of those are too?

What was their justification for charging over tinted windows? Were they just rear tints or whole car?

The list of options is just everything the car has but most of them are standard on that particular model. There is only a need to tell them about the things that you have to pay extra for when ordering the car from new.

They didn't really justify the charging for the tinted windows. I don't think it can be justified! The only thing they were saying s that it's a modification to the car and the extra premium was based on bands they use, which are in turn based on the cost of the modification itself. It seemed to me that the extra premium is basically about the same cost as the modification, therefore it's cost them nothing if they have pay out for it later.

[Kiwibacon]

It doesn't matter what you tell them the value of the car is, the extras are no automatically covered. When it comes to paying out they just look at the current market value of the equivalent car and pay about that. If you haven't declared all the extras they will take the value the basic model without any of the factory options, and on some vehicles that can make quite a difference. They don't charge any extra premium for telling them about factory fitted extras. It's just for info if you have to make claim.

If my vehicle cost 2000 more due to, say, leather seats. Then the insured value of the car covers that leather seat option. I shouldn't have to list "leather seats - 2000" on the insurance policy.

[Rob_Quads]

So what about the non-car enthusiast who goes and buys a second hand car that is no longer the current model. Has never looked at them before. How is he expected to find out what exactly is standard on the car and what is not. Its a complete minefield IMO

I agree things like wheels etc should always be notified of but when it comes to things like the shiny trim rings that are options on mini its going a bit far.

The fact of the matter is the insurance company won't even know what is standard when it came out of the factory. Yes they could find out but unless you have cost them millions they are not going to go the expense and effort of that

[JB-)]

If my vehicle cost 2000 more due to, say, leather seats. Then the insured value of the car covers that leather seat option. I shouldn't have to list "leather seats - 2000" on the insurance policy.

What ever you believe you should or shouldn't have to do, the fact is that Direct Line ask for these things to be declared.

If your car is stolen and they have to pay out, they will pay the market value of the basic car unless you've declared options that increase it's value. What ever you believe the 'insured value' is, is irrelevant.

[JB-)]

So what about the non-car enthusiast who goes and buys a second hand car that is no longer the current model. Has never looked at them before. How is he expected to find out what exactly is standard on the car and what is not. Its a complete minefield IMO

My question to them. The answer? That's your problem, it's up to you to find out, Sir.

The fact of the matter is the insurance company won't even know what is standard when it came out of the factory. Yes they could find out but unless you have cost them millions they are not going to go the expense and effort of that

Whether they know what's an option or not doesn't matter. What matters is the difference in market value between a standard model, and one with all the options thrown at it. If you want to be paid out the full market value for a car with all the optional extras fitted, then declare them up front.

Optional extras may not make a big difference to a Skoda, but on something like Porsche, Merc etc, a long list of options can increase the value a fair bit.

[Huskoda]

Then what's the point of declaring a value for it if it means nothing?

[Rob_Quads]

Exactly. They as you what it's worth so that how much cover your telling you will need to replace it on the event of a write off. Otherwise as said it serves no purpose

[JB-)]

That's something you will have to ask them, but the value you give does NOT guarantee what you are paid if you claim, unless the policy specifically says so (like some used to cover modified cars for example).

If you think that by giving them a high valuation when you get your quote you are guaranteeing what you will be paid then you are a fool. If you claim, they look at the current market value, and pay the replacement cost based on book values and similar vehicles currently for sale. If you value your car for £15k when it's only worth £10, you will not get paid £15k if you claim.

I can only assume they use the your valuation to calculate the premium, or perhaps pay out less if you under estimate. The value on my Direct Line documentation just states "not more than £40,000" suggesting that they use some sort of banding system to calculate premiums.

Edited 7 April, 2013 by JB-)

[Rob_Quads]

Neither of us are saying what you say to them is a guaranteed payout but if they ask what the car is worth and its worth 18k i.e. to replace with with the same spec its 18k then thats what they will need to payout (obviously they will try and shaft you but when pushed they normally will payout).

Obviously you can't say 25k well you can but it wont get you anywhere.

[JB-)]

I get where you're coming from and I totally agree with you, that if they are given the value then the insurance should cover that value. Sadly though that's not how they do things, and yes it sucks. Insurance companies are no better than con men, and what we feel should happen and what does happen are different things.

What I'm trying to get across is that unless options are declared, they will consider the car as a basic model without any options and pay accordingly. The very fact that they even ask for this information is a demonstration of this, and it's also what they told me when I asked about it. I don't think all insurance companies ask for this information, all I can say is that Direct Line do. There is no additional premium so there is no reason not to tell them.

The good thing for most of us on this forum is that options on a Skoda perhaps don't have such a drastic affect on its used value as some other cars.

[RainbowFire]

I think if you give a value quite in excess of the book value, they'll probably what to know why you think your tatty old Nova is worth £15,000.

[Kiwibacon]

It doesn't matter what you tell them the value of the car is, the extras are no automatically covered. When it comes to paying out they just look at the current market value of the equivalent car and pay about that. If you haven't declared all the extras they will take the value the basic model without any of the factory options, and on some vehicles that can make quite a difference. They don't charge any extra premium for telling them about factory fitted extras. It's just for info if you have to make claim.

The list of options is just everything the car has but most of them are standard on that particular model. There is only a need to tell them about the things that you have to pay extra for when ordering the car from new.

They didn't really justify the charging for the tinted windows. I don't think it can be justified! The only thing they were saying s that it's a modification to the car and the extra premium was based on bands they use, which are in turn based on the cost of the modification itself. It seemed to me that the extra premium is basically about the same cost as the modification, therefore it's cost them nothing if they have pay out for it later.

Perhaps a better example is an elegance spec skoda vs the basic spec.

The elegance includes all sorts of options over basic, but these options are all covered in the "elegance" package. If the car caught fire or was stolen, the insurance company would have to pay out for another elegance spec car. There is no need to individually list all the upgrades that elegance spec included.

[JB-)]

Perhaps a better example is an elegance spec skoda vs the basic spec.

The elegance includes all sorts of options over basic, but these options are all covered in the "elegance" package. If the car caught fire or was stolen, the insurance company would have to pay out for another elegance spec car. There is no need to individually list all the upgrades that elegance spec included.

That isn't what I'm saying. OPTIONAL extras need to be declared, not all the standard equipment the car has. So in your Elegance example, it's all the things that are optional as an additional cost on the Elegance that need to be declared.

So, my vRS has reverse sensors, heated seats, auto lights and wipers etc. These are declarable to the insurance company. Standard vRS equipment is not.

[Rob_Quads]

Even standard vRS is a challenge - When were 18" Zeniths introduced? What if your car was built before but delivered after.

The biggest issue is there is too much reliance on the owner being a car enthusiast. While ignorance is justification, being realistic is.Even the VRS can be a tricky one.

Funny enough I was looking at another forum about aviva and mods and someone who used them challanged them when they wanted to charge them to change thier alloys (previous owner had put after optional OEM ones on. Aviva admitted they had no idea what was standard on thier car and so just marked the account accordingly

[JB-)]

The first time I came across this was when I had my BMW. I had to ring the dealer and get them to tell me what options my car had fitted when it was new, which they could see on their system. If they hadn't been able to tell me I'd have been left with guessing. Insurance in general is a mine field, and the only winners are the insurance companies.

[gadgetman]

If my vehicle cost 2000 more due to, say, leather seats. Then the insured value of the car covers that leather seat option. I shouldn't have to list "leather seats - 2000" on the insurance policy.

As someone else posted you can give any value you like to the insurer and they'll happily load your policy accordingly. But come payout they'll go on book value a dealer would use for px.

This will be the standard version of the car (elegance, vrs etc etc) unless you declared optional extras/modifications which just as a dealer part exchanging will, this figure will be tweaked accordingly.

It's a good reason for having gap insurance to cover payout and outstanding finance.

AA member sometime ago wrote off their nearly new car off and the payout was significantly less than their finance and they didn't have gap insurance.

[Kiwibacon]

As someone else posted you can give any value you like to the insurer and they'll happily load your policy accordingly. But come payout they'll go on book value a dealer would use for px.

This will be the standard version of the car (elegance, vrs etc etc) unless you declared optional extras/modifications which just as a dealer part exchanging will, this figure will be tweaked accordingly.

It's a good reason for having gap insurance to cover payout and outstanding finance.

AA member sometime ago wrote off their nearly new car off and the payout was significantly less than their finance and they didn't have gap insurance.

Over here it's quite simple. Car insurance is nominal (purchase price and depreciation) and it's the loss-adjusters who are tasked with finding the value of the claim.

This system works quite well. It's trivial for the insurance co's loss adjuster to see that a vehicle had leather seats etc and obtain a suitable valuation. You are welcome to challenge any valuation, but you need to bring evidence.

The hell-desk insurance people are simply there to take your details over the phone and arrange payment.

[gadgetman]

Sounds much better than here!

[Avalon]

As someone else posted you can give any value you like to the insurer and they'll happily load your policy accordingly. But come payout they'll go on book value a dealer would use for px.

This will be the standard version of the car (elegance, vrs etc etc) unless you declared optional extras/modifications which just as a dealer part exchanging will, this figure will be tweaked accordingly.

It's a good reason for having gap insurance to cover payout and outstanding finance.

AA member sometime ago wrote off their nearly new car off and the payout was significantly less than their finance and they didn't have gap insurance.

If it was under a year old it would be done on a new for old basis through the AA unless things have changed. The AA and it's underwriters aren't liable for anything more than the cars value at the time of the accident normally, it would be less than sensible if a person purchased a new car on finance and didn't consider how they would make up the short fall in the event of a fault claim, cars depreciate massively in the first few years and GAP is cheap.

[triathlondaz]

If it was under a year old it would be done on a new for old basis through the AA unless things have changed. The AA and it's underwriters aren't liable for anything more than the cars value at the time of the accident normally, it would be less than sensible if a person purchased a new car on finance and didn't consider how they would make up the short fall in the event of a fault claim, cars depreciate massively in the first few years and GAP is cheap.

When my wifes car was written off (3 months old) last year the third party insurance company would not pay old for new. We pushed and pushed but they wouldn't pay the OTR price to replace the car. Lucky for us the amount they/we settled on was suitable as Skoda had the 20% discount offer on.

On the subject of mods, when we remapped her replacement Monte it cost an extra £30 on the policy.

[The Zee]

Reminds me of a throw away comment to my insurance company. Said I was thinking about taking the back seats out of my Suzuki Jimny (they don't fold flat) to make it easier for my aging dog. Would have to confirm this with them if I decided to do it and was reminded to take out ALL the seats belt fittings as well and re-register the car with DVLA as a two seater. Otherwise if there was a claim (presume a write off) the V5 would not agree with the insurance cover so could be a problem with any claim.

[MillsyVRS]

The person who bought my old car asked about the mods I had installed before buying and I said it did put the price up a fair amount, so it was up to them whether they wanted to declare them or not.

They bought the car, and a few days later I had a call from the father saying that he wanted the money back because his child couldn't get insured on the car! As if that was my fault, they should have checked before they bought the car!

[Thecko]

Has anyone else thought about the fact that young drivers today are learning to drive in very modern small hatchbacks that come with drivers aids like traction/stability control, ABS, etc?

How much of the accident rate for 'new' drivers is down to the fact that a sensible first-time buyer will go out and buy a 13 year old Corsa/Fiesta with none of those aids? (perhaps if they're lucky with budget it'll have a working ABS system)

Obviously driving instructors don't want to spend their entire working day driving around in a hideous old heap, and the DVLA have certain standards for the vehicle being used for the test to meet, but surely there's an argument that someone learning to drive ought to be doing so in a car representative of what they'll actually be driving once they've passed their test?

As for the OP, I feel sorry for the lad in question, but ultimately it's an expensive and important lesson. If you want to modify your first car, set your overall budget (including insurance), and buy something appropriate so that you can cover *all* costs.

[Huskoda]

Almost all of these aids only really work at the cars limits. These young drivers just think they are gods gift to the roads and that they know what they are doing but have no real experience in handling a car or dealing with 'interesting' situations. These aids can help you get out of a bad situation, but I imagine all too often they are putting themselves into them because they either don't realise what they are doing or they think they are good enough to handle it. A few computer aids won't really make the difference when it's more often than not a mentality problem.

[Thecko]

Fair call.