I'm much more inclined to accept the word of the BMA than an unspecified press article!

Quote:

Vivienne Nathanson, BMA head of science and ethics, said: “It is

important to remember that target groups are likely to comprise people

of varying weights, sizes and ages; some may be pregnant or have

pre-existing medical conditions. It is virtually impossible to control

the amount of a drug delivered or to ensure it acts without producing

toxic effects or causing death.

The BMA was dealing with the issue of Law enforcement/military possibly seeking to use incapacitating gas and rightly pointed out it is terribly risky and cannot be safely done without unacceptable risk. The russian security forces tried with very bad results.

Criminals don't operate ethically and may not care about risks which for normal folks are blatantly unacceptable. The coshed guard on the great train Robbery never worked again and his life was shortened and ruined.

All that said I've spent a round 38 years in the world of criminal law and have never come across a case of the use of gas to stupefy to facilitate theft. my guess is urban myth.

my guess is urban myth.

Agreed! :thumbup:

Yup ... although if SWMBO is to be believed I have discovered the secret of a debilitating gas ...

I have no idea if these stories are true. I can tell you though that when I worked in the Logistics industry 12 years ago in Paris it happened to one of our drivers (and I had no reason not to disbelieve him). Being in a transcontinental office we had drivers from all over Europe..and there were many stories of such nature. Urban Myth maybe ?

www.tispol.org/news/spotlight/road-european-truck-driver-nick-garlick

(8 Paragraphs down)

http://www.thefreeli...es.-a0113768909

http://www.ukskeptic...n-lorry-drivers

Edited 19 March, 201313 yr by MCAMRA

From the second link:

I found this quote purportedly from The Royal College of Aneasthetists on a forum called Motor Home Fun

Despite the increasing numbers of reports of people being gassed in

motor-homes or commercial trucks in France, and the warning put

out by the Foreign Office for travellers to be aware of this danger, this

College remains of the view that this is a myth.

It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render

someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the

currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a

motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at

the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak

anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on

the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes

some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application

to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some

sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous.

The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the

next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need

to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas or by a large compressor.

Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow

siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs

would be too expensive for the average thief to use.

The other important point to remember is that general anaesthetics

are potentially very dangerous, which is why they are only administered

in the UK by doctors who have undergone many years of postgraduate

training in the subject and who remain with the unconscious

patient throughout the anaesthetic. Unsupervised patients are likely

to die from obstruction of the airway by their tongues falling back. In

the Moscow seige approximately 20% of the people died, many probably

from airway obstruction directly related to the agent used.

If there was a totally safe, odourless, potent, cheap anaesthetic agent

available to thieves for this purpose it is likely the medical profession

would know about it and be investigating its use in anaesthetic

practice.

13 Sep 2007

All the experts are saying this is an urban myth and all the links, both here and elsewhere, have never provided Police or medical evidence that this has happened. It all appears to be the typical "a mate down the pub told me". See the section in orange above!

Please can we move on with some sensible FACTS about pratnavs in France?

Your Right. Enough.

Satnavs...waste of time in France unless you are lazy. The only way you will find the best and fastest routes across France is with a 'Map Book'.... I try and find routes to my destinations using the smaller (and with the aid of a map book) straight 'D' roads (many of which are very wide and very fast) and unpopulated with Gendarmes, speed cameras...and camper vans. They also embrace the very best of France which you wont see on the Autoroutes..

agreed enjoy the bye ways french chums just don't get it, suppose its like life you don't notice the obvious!

And you find better food establisments that way!

Motorways, autoroutes, super highways - the fastest way to not see a country.

My closest approach to modern navigational technology is google maps. I really quite like it. My old technique of drawing straight lines representing the distance I want to travel to where I think may be a good place to stop, which may be because there is something I want to see or do, or a restaurant or something "interesting". The straight line is the optimum route and unlikely to have a road underneath it. However there will be one close, so you can use that, or closer examination may reveal somewhere delightful to divert to, or even suggest a complete re-evaluation. It up to us, its our holiday to do what we bl dy well want too. If we want to change our minds, we do. Of course we don't really have destinations, just places we like to go and revisit, or find new ones.

With google maps of course you can zoom in, swap to streetview to suss out hotels and eateries or satellite for campsites. Use "what's here" or check rough distances or times. If you do ask it for a route, it is so easy to alter, save or manipulate to put you near a chain hotel or *** restaurant. I have tried using garmin laptop and an autoroute thing on a laptop but in comparison they are SO limited. I mostly avoid cities so while I can imagine town navigation could be easier with one, its all a bit redundant in my casr.

When at a destination, you can't beat a proper printed map, you get proper topography and little snippets other media don't provide. I like the IGN green series for general trundling around in the car and the blue ones are great for walks. A Michelin atlas works fine for larger scale cross jaunts and looking for areas of squiggly bits to enable to have some driving fun. An all France red map for strategic planning, should we decide to go to Italy or Germany. Or loop through Holland or avoid Switzerland (nothing against - except the cost!).

Finally, planning your route with a map can, and in my mind should, be something you do together, it is a holiday for both of us. With a map it invites the almost conspiratorial poring over and lively discussion. On the other hand, setting up a satnav route seems to be a solitary and isolated activity.

Recent trip to the Vendee, Montaigu for model show with chum, m/way there, no probs as had to travel saturday, but needed to arrive before 11.30 to set up models etc - worked well.

return Monday by minor routes, just one m/way bit, to cross loire at St Nazaire, brilliant views of shipyards and a new cruise liner commissioned last week, German submarine pens etc St Nazaire and also the bronze of Jaques Tati aka M Hulot looking out to sea at St Marc - worth a visit and also a view of M Hulot takes a Holiday, brilliant observational film.

My chum, a breton had never seen/visited any of it, she was amazed that I seem to know more about her country than she does, but she uses M/way roads all the time

, she was amazed that I seem to know more about her country than she does, but she uses M/way roads all the time

Its so true what your saying...my wife still does not get it.

As I'm sure you know. Keeping going from St Nazaire, follow the road around the stunning beach of La Baule....then the rocky coast road to Croisic and then head up to Guerande. That is a really nice drive.

As I'm sure you know. Keeping going from St Nazaire, follow the road around the stunning beach of La Baule....then the rocky coast road to Croisic and then head up to Guerande. That is a really nice drive.

My exact route with an overnight in La Baule!!