Use of Sat Navs in France

[Shanco]

Can anyone clarify for me the legality of using a Sat Nav in France that warns of speed camera sites. I seem to remember that it was illegal to use a Sat Nav that 'pin pointed' the whereabouts of speed camera sites. I believe that French Sat Navs have to have theirsoftware modified to only show an area for the siting of cameras, generally a 3 to 5 km strech of road. My query is:

1. Do British vehicles have exemption?

2. If your Sat Nav doesn't have 'live' updating is it legal?

3. What is the fine?

4. Is this law still valid or am I out of date?

Any help appreciated.

[vRS19TD]

Hopefully this can be of some help to you:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/radar-detectors-in-france.html

It seems to suggest that you need to disable the camera alerts on your sat nav or face a fine up to $1500, confiscation of the device and of the vehicle.

[Llanigraham]

My query is:

1. Do British vehicles have exemption? NO

2. If your Sat Nav doesn't have 'live' updating is it legal? NO CORRECTED, YES

3. What is the fine? Apparently the unit is removed and destroyed, plus some financial consideration.

4. Is this law still valid or am I out of date? Valid as far as the French are concerned.

I would also add that there have been NO reported incidents of UK drivers being targetted on any of the caravannning forums, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

TomTom have a specific download on their site for France, and I haven't checked on Garmin, but I suspect similar. Certainly the TT site removes the actual site of a camera but replaces it with a general "warning" area based around that known site.

[MCAMRA]

Any device that warns you of speed cameras are Illegal in France. A sales rep friend of mine argues that 'Calypso' is legal, but I debate that.

1. Do British vehicles have exemption?

NO

2. If your Sat Nav doesn't have 'live' updating is it legal?

Yes

3. What is the fine?

Enough to spoil your holiday.

Stick to the speed limit its not worth the bother. The days of doing 160kph down the autoroutes have long gone. Forget the fixed cameras, its the mobile ones you want to worry about. They even have cameras hidden in the number plates/bumbers (or whatever) of unmarked cars now.

[MCAMRA]

Any device that warns you of speed cameras are Illegal in France. A sales rep friend of mine argues that 'Calypso' is legal, but I debate that.

1. Do British vehicles have exemption?

NO

2. If your Sat Nav doesn't have 'live' updating is it legal?

No

3. What is the fine?

Enough to spoil your holiday.

Stick to the speed limit its not worth the bother. The days of doing 160kph down the autoroutes have long gone. Forget the fixed cameras, its the mobile ones you want to worry about. They even have cameras hidden in the number plates/bumbers (or whatever) of unmarked cars now.

[Bobdog]

A while back, when I plugged my Tom Tom into my computer to update maps etc, the computer warned that speed camera alerts in France were illegal, and in the process of updating all such alerts were deleted from the database. They were replaced with warnings of 'danger areas' where excess speed might be a problem.

[Merlinman]

It's an option not to include France on the Pocket GPS database.

[The Plumber]

Try avoid driving in much of France like the plague but I'm going to have to travel down through it later this year. Will be trying to avoid tolls, French drivers and their police, plus any bandits; gather they have had a few issues with hijackings etc. of late. Normally travel south through Germany but it's too far out my way on this occasion

TP

[Llanigraham]

Tim,

This "thing" about hi-jackings appears to be an urban myth. Agian it comes up on the caravanning forums but no-one has yet been able to provide any proof that it has ever happened.

I love driving in France. Roads are better and far less crowded, and generally the driving standards are better than the UK (except in Paris!!) I have NEVER been stopped by the Police in all the years we have been over there. TBH there appears to be a lot of internet c rap about the problems then when looked into can rarely be substanciated.

[The Plumber]

Pretty sure I picked this up from the AA, BBC etc. but could be wrong.

Lived in Germany myself for two years and for some reason I never found driving in France as easy as Germany, Holland or Belgium (with the exception of manic Brussels), so as a matter of course I tend to arrive in Calais and head for Belgium ASAP but not this next time and will be avoiding toll roads, not into paying extra to use tarmac if there's an alternative route; take longer mind.

TP

[Steph64]

I've lived in SW France for 8 years now and have to say it's not the place to go speeding (and I have a selection of 2 and 4 wheeled things that are very capable of going quick). The fixed cameras are well signposted but it's the mobile one's that will get you. I wouldn't worry too much about GPS based camera alerts on your Tom Tom (or similar), very unlikely to be picked up for that - virtually everyone in my circle of (French) friends has a Coyote, these are better for alerting you to the mobile threat - no-one I know has been pulled for using these either. Jammers will get you nicked and heavily fined!

Also, exceeding the posted limit by more than 50kph can get your licence taken away at the side of the road and ( if there's no one with you that can take over) - your car can be impounded immediately! Beware - very little margin given by plod here, none of the 10% leeway you might be used to in Blighty.

A further word of advice, worry more about not stopping at a stop sign (properly stopping - count to three before setting off, and/or ensuring both feet are put down at the said junction if riding a motorbike etc.) - they are red hot on this - 90 euros a go and a real earner for them right now.

Happy motoring - the roads are nice, and fairly empty, and most of the time le rozzers are at lunch :-)

[Shanco]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'll leave the Tomm Tomm at home and use my 'ancient' Navman although I may regret it as the French are foreverbuilding new roads and renaming them.

[hmibennett]

Tim,

This "thing" about hi-jackings appears to be an urban myth. Agian it comes up on the caravanning forums but no-one has yet been able to provide any proof that it has ever happened.

I love driving in France. Roads are better and far less crowded, and generally the driving standards are better than the UK (except in Paris!!) I have NEVER been stopped by the Police in all the years we have been over there. TBH there appears to be a lot of internet c rap about the problems then when looked into can rarely be substanciated.

+1

We used to use the late lamented autotrain from Calais to Avignon and every year we would encounter fellow travellers who were adamant that the tran was frequently held up by bandits in the Paris suburbs! Just an urban myth.

I too love driving in France (and I love France and all things French).

[MCAMRA]

Tim,

This "thing" about hi-jackings appears to be an urban myth. Agian it comes up on the caravanning forums but no-one has yet been able to provide any proof that it has ever happened.

I love driving in France. Roads are better and far less crowded, and generally the driving standards are better than the UK (except in Paris!!) I have NEVER been stopped by the Police in all the years we have been over there. TBH there appears to be a lot of internet c rap about the problems then when looked into can rarely be substanciated.

Not so long ago I did see a program on French TV about this very subject. There is a massive 'camper-van' (as opposed to caravans) culture in France and in that respect thieves are indeed targeting them (steeling, sometimes hijacking them etc), in order to sell the vehicle on. What they do is inject a 'gas' into an open window while your sleeping...nice ! I used to work in the Logistics industry in Paris and this used to happen quite frequently to our lorry drivers.

Remember, these people committing the crime (like a lot of crime in France) are organised gangs that come into the country, get what they want and go back across the border.

In terms of 'caravans' I don't think they are as much (or if any) a target for thieves as there is not much of a market for them. The only caravans you see on the road tend to be pulled by British Reg cars.

Edited 19 March, 2013 by MCAMRA

[Bobdog]

I love driving in France. Roads are better and far less crowded, and generally the driving standards are better than the UK (except in Paris!!) I have NEVER been stopped by the Police in all the years we have been over there.

Generally agree. I've been stopped a couple of times immediately after a motorway toll booth for a random breath test, but didn't take it personally - they were stopping about 1 in 4. As long as you keep clear of the speeding Belgians you're safe enough. I have no qualms about taking my up to date Tom Tom complete with 'danger area' alerts (and that includes warnings of mobile 'danger areas')

[Frenchtone]

There are reports of distraction robberies in Brittany but no more than the UK.

10 yrs on and off in France never been stopped, my local chum a Sgt gendarme informs me that for camera speed things it costs more than the fine to recover the fee so don't do it on cars with UK plates - if stopped by bins etc ask to pay at the local prefecture as some of the local force are a little shall we say bent!

My thoughts, stick to limits, use your sat nav, 99% certain you will not be stopped, but definitely observe the 3 sec rule at stop signed junctions, several chums have fallen foul of this, rollingg stop not acceptable!

[nickguzzi]

Agree wholeheartedly about the excessive number of negative urban myths spread by both users of fora and the media. In well over 500 trips to/through France I have only been stopped by the police a couple of times.

First I was bang to rights, speeding and nicked by a local police radar. It was set up just over the brow of a hill, so they didn't know I was a Brit, but they let me off anyway, I always presumed because it was lunchtime.

Second was a random drinks check, late one night, they officer was confused by the fact there was no steering wheels on the left and sent us away.

The last was an early morning road block by the Gendarmerie. We unfortunately had left all our docs in the gite. Just outside the village the nice lady looked bemused at the only official document we had in the car - our previous years' travel insurance, she laughed and waved us on when we offered to go fetch them.

Having been flashed a couple of times, probably because I don't own a satnav, I always expect a begging letter when I get home, but so far have been "disappointed".

I mentioned my lack of satnav. The problem can be, if you just accept the route given, you are going to be on a path more traveled. And more likely to be traversing "hot spots" and "danger areas", so keep doing it, it means the roads I use will be emptier and less "dangerous", thanks!

Does anyone know for sure if any of these transnational tickets have ever been enforced? Or is it just a wasted effort, to be seen to be doing "something" on the part of politicians and bureaucrats?

[Frenchtone]

I have been camera flashed lots of times and on the law of averages a ticket will eventually arrive - one occaision I was over 100mph on a 70 autoroute nothing! it was however around midnight and froggie driver were steaming along in excess - inside knowledge the camera was not active? another tip, if oncoming motorist flash you it as in uk indicates there are gendarmes in the next 2 ish miles, either with speed bins, radar guns or if a r/bout to check docs, hardly ever stop UK reg cars - normally Friday afternoons when they are out in force 2pm to 4.30ish again to catch good lunchers!

The alcotest things have been laid aside currently with no indications of activation!

[Steph64]

Can concur re alcotest, no one here carries them now, not legally recinded (yet) but not applied anymore. Also French computers don't speak to each other, yet alone "foreign " ones - if you get photo'd here you wont get a french letter (s******) in your british letterbox.

[mannyo]

I have been flashed by quiet a few static French cameras since we started driving to spain for the annual holiday, never heard anything from any of them. Same with Spain, been flashed driving through there as well a couple of times.

[Llanigraham]

What they do is inject a 'gas' into an open window while your sleeping...nice ! I used to work in the Logistics industry in Paris and this used to happen quite frequently to our lorry drivers.

Again something that has reared it's head on the camper/caravan forums, and again no-one has been able to actually provide any evidence that it has actually happened. In fact one of the Insurance companies obtained a statement from an senior anaesthetist, who stated that there is no known gas available that could do this in the quantity required without death. This was also from the BMA:

"Drugs can never be used safely as weapons, says BMA report

Sipa Press/Rex Features

Innocent hostages were gassed alongside armed rebels in Moscow

Drugs could never be used as weapons or for law-enforcement without

significant mortality among the target population, according to a new

report by the British Medical Association, which considers the

implications of the Moscow theatre siege in 2002.

The agent whereby people could be incapacitated without risk of death

in a tactical situation does not exist and is unlikely to in the

foreseeable future. In such a situation, it is and will continue to be

almost impossible to deliver the right agent to the right people in the

right dose without exposing the wrong people, or delivering the wrong

dose,the report concludes.

Vivienne Nathanson, BMA head of science and ethics, said: “It is

important to remember that target groups are likely to comprise people

of varying weights, sizes and ages; some may be pregnant or have

pre-existing medical conditions. It is virtually impossible to control

the amount of a drug delivered or to ensure it acts without producing

toxic effects or causing death.

It is disingenuous of governments to describe drugs as non-lethal

there is no difference between a drug and a poison except the dose.

Using drugs as a method of law enforcement may constitute a violation of

international conventions which prohibit the use of chemical weapons.”

The report was written because of interest expressed by governments in

the use of drugs as weapons. What was subsequently claimed to be a

derivative of fentanyl mixed with halothane led to 130 deaths among more

than 800 hostages being held by armed Chechens in a Moscow theatre in

2002 (PJ, 16 November 2002, p723).

Health care professionals and their associations have a number of

responsibilities with regard to the use of drugs as weapons. The most

important is to bring their specific knowledge to bear in this domain,”

the report concludes. This would bring reality to the political,

diplomatic, legal, military and law enforcement dialogue about

non-lethal weapons. From an ethical perspective, health care

professionals need to begin a deeper examination of their roles in

relation to such use of biomedical knowledge and medical expertise for

hostile purposes.?

[MCAMRA]

Again something that has reared it's head on the camper/caravan forums, and again no-one has been able to actually provide any evidence that it has actually happened. In fact one of the Insurance companies obtained a statement from an senior anaesthetist, who stated that there is no known gas available that could do this in the quantity required without death. This was also from the BMA:

I have no idea to be fair, I can only go on what I have read, listened to on tv ect ect. There are many stories about this with lorry drivers, but how true ????

Here is a little read

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/enquete-alerte-aux-cambriolages-de-camping-cars-19-07-2011-1537569.php

There is more if you use google.fr (search vol camping car)

[nickguzzi]

Ok mate, you rub a bit of onion in your eyes and post this envelope of wodge to your mum. I'll loosely tie you up and leave you in this busy Routier, and drive off with your load. When Les Flic arrive, tell 'em you was gassed while jettez les ZZZZ.

Perhaps. Note the concealed advert towards the end.

[Llanigraham]

I'm much more inclined to accept the word of the BMA than an unspecified press article!

Quote:

Vivienne Nathanson, BMA head of science and ethics, said: “It is

important to remember that target groups are likely to comprise people

of varying weights, sizes and ages; some may be pregnant or have

pre-existing medical conditions. It is virtually impossible to control

the amount of a drug delivered or to ensure it acts without producing

toxic effects or causing death.

[MCAMRA]

I'm much more inclined to accept the word of the BMA than an unspecified press article!

Quote:

to ensure it acts without producing

toxic effects or causing death.

so.......a whack on the back of the head with a hammer is probably the way to go then when stealing camper vans. That sorts that one out.

anyway, you would have to be a very stupid thief to steal a right hand drive camper van in France. LOL