all the people I've coached have been car/driving enthusiasts from the outset which I think makes it an easier task

and certainly more enjoyable from my perspective.

This applies to the bigger picture as well Chris. In todays culture with the young uns

it seems to be all about now now now. And generally speaking they don't like to have

to tow the line whatever they are doing. Be that driving lessons, work, or at school.

The lobotomy haircut kid was supposedly a student at university but didn't attend his

lectures, he'd rather continue his endless quest for chronic chlamydia instead. But from

his perspective it's another 4 years of sodding about whilst appearing to do something useful.

That should keep his parents off his back for a bit although they seem to encourage the little

scrotum with their 'he can't do any wrong' attitude. Especially his mother.

When he leaves uni with a third it'll be everybody else fault.

And Vicki Pollard wants a Range Rover and thinks she'll get one by staying in one or two

nights a week. Jesus, talk about no concept of time or money. Using her own economics

assuming she stays in one night a week and saves fifty pounds in the process. That's a

saving of 2600 a year, divide the £71,295 list price of the most basic Range Rover in

boggo spec by that and it will take her a whisker under 27 and a half years to pay for one.

And let's be honest, by then the only 4x4 she's likely to have are 4 kids by 4 different blokes.

(and yes I know a Range Rover over about 8 years old is worth about £20 but she won't

want a used one will she??)

So, it's hardly any surprise when it comes to driving that they do the bare minimum required

to get themselves out there where they can self govern their actions again.

It certainly made for an interesting watch! I'm 21 in less than a fortnight, my first driving lesson was on my 17th birthday, and I passed in 4 months with 1 minor due to my own negligence at the end of the test as I forgot to check a blind spot bay parking, as I knew the hedge wasn't going to have moved! (and that including failing my theory first time!). So far so good (touch wood), I've not been in an accident and I've got a clean license. I've been pulled a couple of times, but for the times I've driven, anyone would be suspicious at that time so they were within their rights to do so!

What I find astounding is just how bad these drivers actually can be. I've been in the car with some people after passing their test, and I've no idea how they passed their test. One friend in particular likes to criticise my driving a lot which I find amusing considering their car is pretty much ****** and they failed their test 4 times, and have been in various crunches with inanimate objects, and motorists as well! The worst I've done is slowly reverse into a wall whilst I was still discovering the various extremities of the Fabia!

Sadly, these programmes do give young drivers a bad name, but also these drivers are what's causing our insurance to be so high! The Co-op tracker policy is good as well, to put things into perspective, when I was 17, to be named on mum's car (1.0 Vauxhall Agila at the time), it was £2500 with £600 excess, then she got the Polo which is the same insurance group, and it was £2500 for another year. It then went onto a co op tracker policy, and that took it down to £1300 and the excess was around £400 I think. When the renewal came through and they noticed that whoever uses the car has been good drivers, it's now £700 to have me named on there, and my excess is £100. Now on the Fabia in my own name and policy, it's £1200 fully comp with £650 excess! Sadly we have to pay it though!

Now what might just be an incentive, is the insurers continue to charge a high rate for young drivers, but, when it comes to renewal, if there's been no claim on the policy and there's still a clean license (or even use the tracker systems for this), reward the driver by either a huge drop, or even giving part of the initial sky high premium they paid back, whereas is there is a claim or bad driving, it goes up in price off the scale. Obviously it'll never catch on as insurance companies are greedy ******s, but still, that could help clean up the roads a bit!

Now what might just be an incentive, is the insurers continue to charge a high rate for young drivers, but, when it comes to renewal, if there's been no claim on the policy and there's still a clean license (or even use the tracker systems for this), reward the driver by either a huge drop, or even giving part of the initial sky high premium they paid back, whereas is there is a claim or bad driving, it goes up in price off the scale. Obviously it'll never catch on as insurance companies are greedy ******s, but still, that could help clean up the roads a bit!

Unfortunately, you're assessed on your driving history and without any or with very little, they have to find some other statistic to profile you. If young people (as a collective) had fewer accidents and weren't such a high-risk group, the premiums would come down. Perhaps the way to do this is stop them at source and make the driving test a bit more challenging (ie none of this pre-defined test-route rubbish) and also break out of the mentality of taking lessons to "pass the test" rather than to learn to drive. After all driving is a privilege, not a right

Chris

This applies to the bigger picture as well Chris. In todays culture with the young uns

it seems to be all about now now now. And generally speaking they don't like to have

to tow the line whatever they are doing. Be that driving lessons, work, or at school.

I suspect it comes down to where you look and I've driven with a number of 17/18 year olds who were very competent and confident drivers (although to be fair there wasn't a labotomy haircut or hooped ear ring among them ) and one lad (imho) was even too cautious on wet, twisty roads. I think in this era of prolific social media/networking and trash-telly though, it's easy to forget these people who get pushed to the sidelines...

Chris

The last test I did may have been a predefined route but I'd never done it so to me was new. My instructors said in theory they can take you almost anywhere providing all the sections can be tested for. Left test centre and was told to head for "Neath", about 5 miles from the test centre then was told to "follow signs for...", "take the next left", "pull in where safe", etc. Treated the examiner as a satnav but concentrating on everything else. I passed but the test was straightforward. Driving a car for years it should have been. How long is the current driving test? Perhaps it should be more than an hour and longer distance?

How long is the current driving test? Perhaps it should be more than an hour and longer distance?

I seem to remember mine (in '95) was around 40 mins of driving, a comedy "emergency" stop from 20mph, a 3-point turn and reverse round a corner, a handful of tell-me-what-the-road-sign is questions and certainly no element of navigation or theory test. I think the test is certainly tougher these days, although there is still a lot more scope for improvement!

In contrast, the IAM/RoSPA test is around 1.5 hours, but still doesn't cover things like driving at night, driving in all weathers, navigation, car control, etc.

Chris

The test should include driving in the pouring rain at night, with a small child screaming and kicking the back of your seat while a white van sits 2 inches off your bumper flashing his lights at you and occasionally pulling past you to cut you up and push you down a different route. That should help weed out those who don't have it.

Could they have it in modules like the bike test is? You still have to pass theory but make it 50 questions like the bike test instead of 35. Then you do a day test to prove you can "drive", a bit like a CBT then the next section would be motorway driving that leads into some night driving. Then maybe a full 50 minute test with current manoeuvres but with some emphasis on the driver knowing which way to go by only paying attention to signs. It effectively combines the current test with some Pass Plus before you can come on the road. Then tell the newly passed driver that if you go for IAM or RoSPA you can get discounts on insurance, instructors could offer discounts to do it with them, etc.

Once work settles down and a few other things are sorted I still want to do some advanced driving. May try it the end of Summer

Did no one notice the car she was driving in the first episode was not fit to be on the road??

The brake lights where constantly on and the horn did not work...... that bugged me the most.

I noticed the horn and her running a red light, but didn't notice the brake lights always being on. TBH there is enough illegal stuff in that show already that insurers could just blacklist both their names.

Could they have it in modules like the bike test is? You still have to pass theory but make it 50 questions like the bike test instead of 35. Then you do a day test to prove you can "drive", a bit like a CBT then the next section would be motorway driving that leads into some night driving. Then maybe a full 50 minute test with current manoeuvres but with some emphasis on the driver knowing which way to go by only paying attention to signs. It effectively combines the current test with some Pass Plus before you can come on the road.

I think it certainly makes a lot of sense, but I imagine the cost of that sort of tuition/testing may become prohibitive and any politician who tried to bring it in may find himself in a very short career. Saying that though, if it did go through and there was a vast reduction in the number of cars and road safety stats, there may well be quite a shortfall at the treasury, motor manufacturers, oil companies, tyre companies, insurance, etc, etc from lost revenue which may leave us in a worse state than having the bad drivers on the road

Chris

I noticed the horn and her running a red light, but didn't notice the brake lights always being on. TBH there is enough illegal stuff in that show already that insurers could just blacklist both their names.

Was the horn not working or was she just pressing the wrong switch for it? I can't remember. The red light was interesting though, especially with the camera car following her through

Chris

I suspect it comes down to where you look and I've driven with a number of 17/18 year olds who were very competent and confident drivers (although to be fair there wasn't a labotomy haircut or hooped ear ring among them ) and one lad (imho) was even too cautious on wet, twisty roads. I think in this era of prolific social media/networking and trash-telly though, it's easy to forget these people who get pushed to the sidelines...

Chris

I know there's some good kids out there as well, my wife was 18 when I met her and

turns 30 this year. I have watched her get a first with honours at uni, become a confident,

successful businesswoman and go on to get her actuarial qualification as well in that time.

The youngsters aren't all useless but the other 5 that were in her student house didn't do so well,

the best grade to come out of that lot was a 2:1 the rest were thirds and plain passes.

That's because they sodded around instead of knuckling down.

Martyn is another young man that I'd be proud to employ/do business with. He clearly has

his head screwed on, with a great attitude but sadly he is in the minority. For every Martyn

there's 20 barely literate, poorly motivated and superficial people out there.

The one thing Mrs Grr has done that she's struggled with is learning to drive. It took her 3 attempts to

pass her driving test, (which infuriated her massively as she's used to passing things and passing well )

She immediately did pass plus after passing her test, to further her confidence a bit and I took her

out on a lot of drives in a kind of informal 'instructor' role and taught her some of the things I have

learned from 25 years on the road and my PCV training. Particularly in the field of observation

and forward planning which is drummed into you when you learn to drive a bus.

But she never had a know it all attitude and was willing to concede that someone else knew

better, that makes her receptive to instruction. Apart from a little residual difficulty in parking

she has become a very safe driver who makes good steady progress, observes, anticipates

and plans well, doesn't take chances and is courteous to other road users.

But she still had to pay silly money for insurance at the start, it's just the way it works in this country

the good decent and honest have to subsidise those who are careless and feckless.

But she still had to pay silly money for insurance at the start, it's just the way it works in this country

the good decent and honest have to subsidise those who are careless and feckless.

I'm sure I've seen a thread about that recently

Chris

I'm sure I've seen a thread about that recently

I'm not going there (this time).

Can't wait for episode 2, this thread is bringing up some interesting points

and views.

I think it certainly makes a lot of sense, but I imagine the cost of that sort of tuition/testing may become prohibitive and any politician who tried to bring it in may find himself in a very short career. Saying that though, if it did go through and there was a vast reduction in the number of cars and road safety stats, there may well be quite a shortfall at the treasury, motor manufacturers, oil companies, tyre companies, insurance, etc, etc from lost revenue which may leave us in a worse state than having the bad drivers on the road

Chris

Good point. But then again they'd be saving money in the NHS for dealing with injured people, Police attending RTA's, Fire service, etc so it may work itself out. You will always get the ones that no matter how much instruction and learning they get they will still think they know best and crash but I don't think this can be helped.

It's the insurance bit that annoys me the most. New drivers should be encouraged to drive better, improve their skills to make it drop. Insurance in itself is a farce and I spent almost an hour arguing with them a few days ago when they raised my quote by £50 because the day had changed but that's for another thread.

But she never had a know it all attitude and was willing to concede that someone else knew

better, that makes her receptive to instruction. Apart from a little residual difficulty in parking

she has become a very safe driver who makes good steady progress, observes, anticipates

and plans well, doesn't take chances and is courteous to other road users.

I've always had the same thoughts. I can always learn more and there is always room for improvement. Outside of this forum and car people I know on Twitter I don't talk about driving to others. Had an argument not long ago with some chav when all I suggested he should test his new car on track instead as I'd really enjoyed it when I did it and shows in relative safety where the limits are. That was just laughed at and said he could drive just as fast on the road. I didn't respond and let him get on with it. Darwin's theory may take care of him.

It's my view that driving is like martial arts - you will never be fully accomplished at it and there is always something more to learn.

My complaint to OFCOM was that the programme makers had wilfully allowed the kids to break the law and get away with it (granted they stepped in when drink-driving almost took place), broken the law themselves (running that red light), and were encouraging others to break the law by downplaying the seriousness of what they'd done by awarding one of them a car and giving the other one a telling off followed by a day's jaunt on a skid-pan.

Edited 5 April, 201313 yr by chicken_eyebrow

My complaint to OFCOM was that the programme makers had wilfully allowed the kids to break the law and get away with it (granted they stepped in when drink-driving almost took place)

From my conversations with a police officer friend, he did break the law as he got in the vehicle with the intent to drive while twice over the limit.

Technically just having keys and getting in it is enough for a DD charge. He's in control of the vehicle.

Technically just having keys and getting in it is enough for a DD charge. He's in control of the vehicle.

Yeah, I was unimpressed when he told me he could nick me for going to my car to get a sleeping bag out, but OT.

Yeah, I was unimpressed when he told me he could nick me for going to my car to get a sleeping bag out, but OT.

Same as me. A few years ago I'd left my car outside a mates house when we'd gone out for a few drinks. It was a warm summer night so I thought I'd sleep in the car until some said not to because people have been have been arrested before for it while being drunk. Walked home instead.

and also break out of the mentality of taking lessons to "pass the test" rather than to learn to drive. After all driving is a privilege, not a right

Chris

That's pretty much what my instructor said to me on the first lesson. He's a good family friend too, but he's a private tutor who's been in the game for years, and he basically said "I might not be the cheapest, but I do the job properly. If you just want to pass your test, go to BSM or Red. If you want to learn to drive for life, you're in safe hands with me. I won't let you on main roads until I'm confident that you can drive at the correct speeds appropriate to the conditions without ****ting yourself" - Or words to that effect. Either way, of the people I know who he's tutored, only one has had an accident (which wasn't his fault!) and he has one of the highest pass rates in town as well.

My complaint to OFCOM was that the programme makers had wilfully allowed the kids to break the law and get away with it.......

No more so than the parents handing the keys over in the first place. All the program makers have done is to document what has happened. Our "large scale professional disciplined service" would be the ones currently letting them get away with it.......unless someone knows different.

I do have to wonder why there was no footage of the their last return journies though.

I think the girl had been made aware of what was going on though. To have had the evangelical moment half way through the week filming seems a little too convenient IMHO. All of a sudden being very aware of being on the phone, hmmmmmmm. Not so sure about the comments on her financial side either. She wasn't making short trips.

Technically just having keys and getting in it is enough for a DD charge. He's in control of the vehicle.

Does this hold true if the vehicle is on private land?

Guessing no but would it depend if the vehicle was for road use or not. I know of farmers that have old pick ups that never see the road but good enough for moving things quickly round the land.