Just out of interest does anyone know what would be involved in retro-fitting an airbag to a Mk 2  Felicia that never had one fitted?

 

From my search on here it looks as though the wiring would be there and the steering wheel is the same, would it just be a case of fitting it and maybe coding with VCDS?

 

I know its probably a bit of a daft question, as I would have thought there's not much point in fitting a 12+ year old second hand airbag and a new one would presumably cost an arm and a leg (in Felicia terms at least)

Edited 8 July, 201313 yr by juan27

Dont forget the fact that the explosive charges are rated for 15 years, so it would need replacing in 2-3 years anyway - at a cost of over £1000 I believe.

Is that right? So my car is a year away from the time threshold !

Yes, in the same way you must get your car serviced every year regardless of mileage.  It's all CYA stuff, don't worry about it.

Yes, in the same way you must get your car serviced every year regardless of mileage.  It's all CYA stuff, don't worry about it.

 

What would happen re insurance if one went off, causing a crash, and was found to be past its use by date??

 

Dont forget, it is not just the drivers airbag, but also the front seatbelt pre-tensioners as well; I am guessing that having them disabled is probably the safest bet - the car I have just bought is a 98, so in theory I need to do something in the next few months.

I suspect they must have pretty strong failsafes against untimely deployment regardless of age. Otherwise there would have been a fair few gone off randomly by now. The age limit is more about how long you can safely assume the bag is certain to work as intended. With such a safety related item probably >95% must 'last' longer than 15 years and design mean time between failures much longer.

Personally I wouldn't disable something that could still save your life!

Of course following that logic if it's a 30 minute cost neutral job to retro fit a second hand airbag it probably does make a degree of sense....

I wonder if it's the same unit in the Fabia or other newer models?

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What would happen re insurance if one went off, causing a crash, and was found to be past its use by date??

Dont forget, it is not just the drivers airbag, but also the front seatbelt pre-tensioners as well; I am guessing that having them disabled is probably the safest bet - the car I have just bought is a 98, so in theory I need to do something in the next few months.

On the other side of the coin I wonder if a driver's personal injury claim after an a accident could be prejudiced by having intentionally disabled a fitted airbag which despite being 15 years old most probably would have deployed?

Not to mention that their actual injuries might have been reduced by having a working airbag!

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On the other side of the coin I wonder if a driver's personal injury claim after an a accident could be prejudiced by having intentionally disabled a fitted airbag which despite being 15 years old most probably would have deployed?

Not to mention that their actual injuries might have been reduced by having a working airbag!

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Actually I agree, but it IS a conundrum, which is why I raised the point; the prices for replacements may well vastly outweigh the value of the vehicle, and many people will be unaware of the "lifetime" of the explosive charges used; so what DO you do when they pass their "use by" date?? Damned if you do and damned if you dont!!

 

Obviously this doesnt just affect old Skodas, there are PLENTY of other old cars running around with similar time-bombs fitted.

Disabling them is a BAD idea.  Many cars' protection systems rely on the airbags being a part of that system.  Disabling them will increase the likelihood of being injured.  In the case of the pre-tensioners, it may well mean the seatbelt works less well than it should, and that's a really bad idea.

 

I think it's very unlikely they would spontaneously go off - the 15 year rating is far more likely to be a "will work" than "will go off randomly".  

 

You don't "need to do something in the next few months", it'll be fine - the lifespans given are estimates, and there's no information anywhere that there have been problems.  Airbags have been around over 20 years in some territories without issues.

 

Do some research, and you'll see you're making a mountain out of a molehill - Mercedes, for instance, now say that airbags should last the lifetime of a vehicle, whereas they originally said 15 years.  RACV in Australia say they know of no cases of older airbags causing issues in a crash due to non-inflation, or having gone off spontaneously due to age. 

 

http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/racv/Internet/Primary/my+car/car+safety/safety+equipment/airbags/older+airbags

If I see a 2000 Felicia in the scrappy and the right price can be negotiated I might give the retrofit a go (very carefully) as I doubt the car will be in the family for more than a couple of years regardless of the debate.

Unless anyone knows for sure there are more bits involved to fit than the bag itself.

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Most Golfs and Polos of the same era had the same steering wheel, they would probably be far more common in scrapyards. Only trouble is you'd have to put up with a VW badge and that would bug me!

Hi,

 

I've dealt with a few airbag systems during our crash repair work, so will try to shed some light...

 

Airbag equipped cars have the airbags controlled by a bespoke airbag ECU. Either within the ECU itself, or separately, there is one or more impact sensors that will fire various airbags when a sufficient impact is detected. On the Felicia, there will only be the one for frontal impact, and most likely be scavenged from VAG parts bin, so most likely internal sensor in the ECU.

 

Even if your Felicia has the wiring looms for the airbag(s) already, you will need to install the correct Airbag ECU, sensor (if separate) as well as any airbags themselves. If the airbag cars also come with seatbelt pre-tensioners, you will also need to fit these. If any part of the system is missing, the ECU will put on the Airbag light (you need to check your instrument cluster has this too!) and turn off the system.

 

Remember, MOT now requires the airbag light to come on and then go out after the system self check or you fail MOT.

 

So before spending any more time on this, you need to get yourself the full details of the actual correct components that make up the Felicia system, ie, ECU, impact sensors, airbags and possibly pre-tensioners. When you find this out, you will need to source all the correct parts.

 

Needless to say, if your car doesn't happen to have a full airbag system loom, it's a non starter!

 

You may also need to activate the system with VCDS.

 

Frankly, it would be less hassle and probably cost to sell your car and buy an airbag equipped Felicia.

 

Remember any work on any airbag system must always be done with the battery disconnected and left for 30 mins. or so before touching anything.

Hi,

 

I've dealt with a few airbag systems during our crash repair work, so will try to shed some light...

 

Airbag equipped cars have the airbags controlled by a bespoke airbag ECU. Either within the ECU itself, or separately, there is one or more impact sensors that will fire various airbags when a sufficient impact is detected. On the Felicia, there will only be the one for frontal impact, and most likely be scavenged from VAG parts bin, so most likely internal sensor in the ECU.

 

 

Useful info thanks....

 

So I admit it is more complicated than just fitting the bag and coding,  

 

I think the seat belt pre-tensioners may be a red herring as I'm sure my green (airbag equipped) Felicia doesn't have them.

 

Certainly if the main wiring loom is different and the warning light is missing that would make it a balls ache.

 

I guess the former is pretty much down to if there is a wire going to the connector in the steering wheel, so fairly easy to check.

 

Obviously there's the warning light but I'd be amazed if that wasn't there as the instrument panel is common to all models. 

Edited 11 July, 201313 yr by juan27

Referring to Vagcat looks as though there's a controller and a loom needed as well as the bag, (assuming supported by the main loom).

 

Parts 1, 2 and 8 below.

All the other bits are for side and passenger airbags, which I'm not considering.

 

When I've time I'll try and locate the controller on my green car and see where it plugs into, but I still think it looks do-able with the stated caveats.

 

Obviously I'm talking about using used parts, the ECU alone is priced at €286 on Vagcat.

 

But to be honest like a few on here I'm interested in the technical challenges of upgrading and retrofitting to the Felicia, it makes no economic sense. 

Edited 11 July, 201313 yr by juan27

I have done both sides on mine you need a air bag ecu loom plugs in on felicia air bag wheel air bag you need to fit pre tensioner sear belts but I have not as yet I do have a ec and loom spare...

I have done both sides on mine you need a air bag ecu loom plugs in on felicia air bag wheel air bag you need to fit pre tensioner sear belts but I have not as yet I do have a ec and loom spare...

 

Excellent news (I think), so for the drivers side are you saying that the main loom already supports fitment re the steering wheel connector and warning light or did you need to splice something in? 

 

When you say "you need to fit pre-tensioner seat belts" are you suggesting they are an absolute requirement if fitting an airbag? At the risk of repeating myself I'm pretty sure my green car (LXi) with a drivers airbag doesn't have them, but I could be wrong.

 

I will get round to looking at the green car tomorrow see where things go.

Remember, MOT now requires the airbag light to come on and then go out after the system self check or you fail MOT.

 

Not quite correct, it will fail the MOT if it is illuminated so as to indicate a fault with the system.

 

Warning light removal/blanking out is acceptable as far as VOSA is concerned and some cars will illuminate the light when the passenger airbag is turned off which is not a fail.

You can avoid air bag light coming on by De connect battery 1st do whats needed then before connecting battery is put key to ignition position then connect battery wire ha presto airbag light off as should only works if air bag light off the air bag loom has air bag wires on it you will find fitting pre tensioners hard as theres no captive nuts in innerseal but can get from skoda.... as for wireing should be plug and play there is a brown wire thats looped on it self that needs to be unpluged as this is to bypass air bag light on cars with out hope this helps.....

Edited 12 July, 201312 yr by uma1998

 

When you say "you need to fit pre-tensioner seat belts" are you suggesting they are an absolute requirement if fitting an airbag?

 

The pretensioners stop you from moving too far forwards - if you are not restrained the airbag may kill you when it deploys.

They are a must but I don't plain on the air bag deploying when I last pluged it in to wipe codes off apparently the passanger one had deployed more like missing lol

I dont remember ANY of the Fellys having a passenger airbag, was the ECU from a different car??

I dont remember ANY of the Fellys having a passenger airbag, was the ECU from a different car??

The SLXi's have a passenger airbag. It's a bit of a pain as there is no glovebox. But we get a small plastic tray under the passenger seat by way of compensation.

Ah, OK; never having seen one, I thought the passenger airbag was like ABS brakes, available in theory, but rarer than hens teeth in practice.

Ah, OK; never having seen one, I thought the passenger airbag was like ABS brakes, available in theory, but rarer than hens teeth in practice.

 

When looking for the blue car I saw ads for three or four 1.6 GLXi models with ABS. I don't think I've ever seen a 1.3 with ABS advertised, but plenty of these 1.6 models. 

 

There's at least two on ebay right now.

 

According to the parts lists even side airbags were available. Don't know if they were ever fitted in the UK, maybe just in Sweden perhaps? I know I used to have a Volvo which had airbags just about everywhere.

 

Does anyone have a circa 1999 Felicia brochure they could scan? It would be interesting to see what was standard and options on the various trim levels....

Edited 14 July, 201312 yr by juan27

They are a must but I don't plain on the air bag deploying when I last pluged it in to wipe codes off apparently the passanger one had deployed more like missing lol

 

Ah so pre-tensioners are a must. I think that rules all of this out for me, but its been interesting and hopefully might answer the same question for the next person.

 

Indeed it would be less hassle to swap for an LXi and get power steering and (dodgy) central locking into the bargain.  

 

To be honest the LXi doesn't seem to command much of a premium over the L, which is quite surprising considering how ubiquitous PAS, CL (and the flipping airbag) have become. 

Edited 14 July, 201312 yr by juan27