Hmmmmmm.......  :think:

 

Think we were talking about acceleration figures but I take your point I think you are making that VW has cheated tests to get people to buy their cars by stating the CO2 is, particularly, below the 120 grams per kilometer and NO lower than actual which is clearly exposed now.  

If many such VAG cars now move from £30 road tax to £120 (or more) and VW have to foot the bill for the next few years that looks like costing them a few tens or hundreds of millions in the UK and perhaps similar in other counties.  

 

How can they afford this plus the US fines plus customers walking away in droves. 

Edited 21 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

A new Diesel VRS is cheaper to buy then a New Petrol VRS here in Ireland.

I do lots of motorway miles (about 20k a year) and went for a petrol 230RS.  It doesn't make economical sense, but I wanted a petrol.  Had a 2.0TFSI 2007 RS and loved it...have been driving a 2.0TDI Superb for the past four years and that has been absolutely awesome, but just not as exciting.

 

As the new RS230 will be the first car I've ever ordered to be made (rather than buying from stock) and isn't 'cheap' I decided to go for what I wanted rather than compromising on fuel economy.

Personally I think the vrs is all about diesel. That's not to say the petrol isn't very good it's just if you buy the petrol why don't you buy a golf GTI/R, megane 275 or Civic Type R?

Personally I think the vrs is all about diesel. That's not to say the petrol isn't very good it's just if you buy the petrol why don't you buy a golf GTI/R, megane 275 or Civic Type R?

But if you want a diesel, why not just buy an ordinary diesel or a Scout?

 

I have to admit I almost ordered a Leon Cupra 290 instead, but financially it didn't make sense and the Leon is not as nice looking inside or out (only my opinion of course) and is very tight for space.  In Slovakia a similar spec Leon works out 6K EUR more than the 230RS and I don't think it is worth it.  Golf R costs around 15K more which was out of my budget, personally dislike Renault because of the cheap plastics, atrocious quality and extortionate service costs.  The Civic R is brilliant, was considering it, but in all honesty, I'd look like a k**b in it  Was also considering the new 308 GTI which looks awesome, but its only a 1.6 and I reckoned the turbo in it would probably suffer + price was not so appealing.  The Astra OPC was also a contender, but it was an outgoing model.

 

I also had a 2.0 TFSI VRS about 4 years ago and loved it apart from buying it used and it constantly breaking.

Personally I think the vrs is all about diesel. That's not to say the petrol isn't very good it's just if you buy the petrol why don't you buy a golf GTI/R, megane 275 or Civic Type R?

 

It depends what VRS means to the buyer.

 

I suppose most people simply think of VRS as the sports version.  Certainly the diesel VRS's acelleration figures, according to Skoda, are relatively poor on several measures.  To 60, 7.9 seconds for the new mark 3 version, something like 8.4s for the Mark 2 VRS, pretty relatively slow.  Way slower than the petrol VRS and also half a second slower than the 1.8 TSI versions of the Mk 2 and 3.

 

VRS, when Skoda wanted to use RS but Ford would not let them I seem to recall, the V bit lost in history, was more of a call back to Rally Sport which the Octavia never excelled at, that was always made by the smaller Skodas.

 

Had several Octavia diesels, but sport spec is not their forte.  If one likes the styling (false exhaust pipe included) live in the dream.  If you want actually performance, go petrol, either 2 litre or 1.8 TSI versions and less emission worries about forthcoming VAG "fiddle fixes".  

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

See you're still here trolling with the 1.8 TSI. We all know the book figures are wrong with my 0-60 time of 6.9. Similar story across all of vag with conservative performance figures and power. Like the fabia with the cthe engine which is more like 195 brake. It certainly feels that too.

Just like my vrs diesel felt much quicker than 170.

Hopefully my new R will do too, as tests have shown 0 to 60 of 4.4 to 4.6 on a dsg vs 4.9 book figure. Put a stage 1 map on it and it's rs6 territory.

I also suggest you read into what the emissions scandal is about. It's not Co2. Also it's not something that it would fail any tests on in this country, just America. It's mostly media hype and people like you like to jump on the bandwagon. If you think vw diesels are the only manufacturer or engine to be affected then you are deluded. My old company megane is meant to get up to 89 mpg. I nursed it up to wetherby one day through 60 miles of 50mph roadworks on m1 and I saw 65mpg. Day to day it was 47 to 50, exactly the same as my vrs was yet they claim 90 Co2 and that impossible mpg and it comes out at zero road tax. I'm putting money on Renault having false figures.

At least you stand a chance matching vw mpg claims

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by jrw

The Mk7 Golf R is nothing to do with the VW Device Cheat NoX Scandal,

 

But the 2.0 TSI 300 ps Euro 6 Emission engine is part of the Co2 / MPG EU Testing 'Irregularities' list 

and being checked for the VED Class & Business Taxing.

 

So maybe a change coming up for the VED Band on the models not yet First Registered in the UK.

List+of+critical+CO2+vehicles,+model+year+2016.pdf

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

See you're still here trolling with the 1.8 TSI. We all know the book figures are wrong with my 0-60 time of 6.9. Similar story across all of vag with conservative performance figures and power. Like the fabia with the cthe engine which is more like 195 brake. It certainly feels that too.   Just like my vrs diesel felt much quicker than 170.  Hopefully my new R will do too, as tests have shown 0 to 60 of 4.4 to 4.6 on a dsg vs 4.9 book figure. Put a stage 1 map on it and it's rs6 territory.  I also suggest you read into what the emissions scandal is about. It's not Co2. Also it's not something that it would fail any tests on in this country, just America. It's mostly media hype and people like you like to jump on the bandwagon. If you think vw diesels are the only manufacturer or engine to be affected then you are deluded. My old company megane is meant to get up to 89 mpg. I nursed it up to wetherby one day through 60 miles of 50mph roadworks on m1 and I saw 65mpg. Day to day it was 47 to 50, exactly the same as my vrs was yet they claim 90 Co2 and that impossible mpg and it comes out at zero road tax. I'm putting money on Renault having false figures.  At least you stand a chance matching vw mpg claims

 

Just quoting the Skoda figures but Audi, SEAT and VW show similar results in their figures for TDI/TSI comparisons.  Worked on a rolling road for a few months during one of my Mech Eng degree courses, know how they work. Give the punter what they want to hear.  Extrapolate figures to provide a number punter happy with.

 

VAG Emission scandal started with the 11M diesels and NO and now has spread to about 1M diesel and petrol cars re CO2. Cheating in one area usually is accompanied by cheating in another it is oft found.  Like you moved over to Renault for some of the fleet.  Tried the 1.5D Nissan-Renault engine and thought it was pretty dire.  As with the TDI/TSI, cannot believe that two engines ie 0.9 TCE and 1.5D are supposely the same HP and as with the VAG figures the petrol is about 0.5 to 1 second quicker than the diesel for same or similar power, just a fact of life across Marque, Group or cars in general.

 

Nissan-Renault diesels, like most of them, particularly when cold, are blowing at 3 to 9 times over the NO limits until toastie. These cars are not suited to urban driving in their current form and in Paris next month we will hopefully get a mandate to restrict such cars from urban area on some days and they indefinitely.  I am still thinking of the Clio RS, seems good value and day to day car, not sure 220 hp is worth it over the 200 but will try both in the spring and see what deals are going.  A Tesla would suit me in may ways but not sure my 9K car allowance will stretch that far.   

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

Save your money and buy something else. when yo part ex these cars you get nothing for them. I am on my 2nd vrs, it is the latest model TDi, mint condition, and the resale at the dealer was appalling. Lost 10,000 pound in 2 years. I am going the lease a new Scout, same engine, better all round car. After 2 years i can hand it back and free to do whatever. Don't buy a high spec car!!

Save your money and buy something else. when yo part ex these cars you get nothing for them. I am on my 2nd vrs, it is the latest model TDi, mint condition, and the resale at the dealer was appalling. Lost 10,000 pound in 2 years. I am going the lease a new Scout, same engine, better all round car. After 2 years i can hand it back and free to do whatever. Don't buy a high spec car!!

 

When the UK "Government" (use the term loosely as it is actually Laissez-Faire to Hell in a hand cart currently) raised VAT to 20% and companies like Skoda UK stopped the good deals (and passed them over to struggling SEAT) buying a car became a mugs game.

 

Add to that Skoda being replaced by Dacia as the UK (and European) value brand (£200 pm for a 20K miles per year lease for a car that does everything but tow) and buying a new car, especially a relatively expensive brand is kissing good by to big money ie a quarter in the first month and probably half after two years especially now with the mill chain of falling Glasses and Trade values associated with the emissions scandal until cleared up and all diesel, and some petrols, share the financial burden of the aftermath.  

Personally I think the vrs is all about diesel. That's not to say the petrol isn't very good it's just if you buy the petrol why don't you buy a golf GTI/R, megane 275 or Civic Type R?

 

 

Size , space, practicality and anonymity . The Octavia estate is huge and has more rear headroom than the Golf (Important if your son is 6'3") . The boot on the Octavia hatch also makes it practical family car , the cars you listed are weekend toys or second cars imo

 

I don't see them as particularly performance orientated cars just a family car with a decent turn of speed

I just come from a 2010 civic Fn2. Now got a 62 plate Octavia VRS TDI. Much prefer the Octavia, bigger inside. (I'm 6ft 7 and 20 stone ). Can't believe hot much I missed the Torque! I'm looking to remap the diesel with a stage 1 remap and that should put a smile on my face for a while

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Size , space, practicality and anonymity . The Octavia estate is huge and has more rear headroom than the Golf (Important if your son is 6'3") . The boot on the Octavia hatch also makes it practical family car , the cars you listed are weekend toys or second cars imo

I don't see them as particularly performance orientated cars just a family car with a decent turn of speed

You don't see cars that can do sub 8 mins at the nurburgring as performance cars?

A Suzuki Swift Sport is a Junior Hot hatch and can be a family city car.

 

An Octavia vRS TDI is a Commuting / Family car and makes a good Taxi or Airport Transport with some performance and economy,

but a performance car or even a Hot Hatch it is not.

I agree that is why i have bought the scout, same engine, DSG etc. Having owned 2 i am asking why they make the vrs, it seems to be in no mans land? Still a very nice car though. 

I agree that is why i have bought the scout, same engine, DSG etc. Having owned 2 i am asking why they make the vrs, it seems to be in no mans land? Still a very nice car though. 

 

Thought the 150 hp diesel was the pick of the bunch.

 

Reasonably quick ie 8.5 to 60, better economy and available in the L&K spec, gorgeous.

 

Still would probably go for the 1.8 TSI if I wanted something that size.

 

Would only go for the diesel if doing a lot of mainland Europe drive (and Northern Ireland before FUBAR interjects) which I only do occasional because diesel is so much cheaper there.   

 

Interesting to see that the 184 hp 4 wheel drive diesel is a third of a second quicker to 60 than the VRS despite its much higher weight such is the issue of getting power down in the diesel VRS which is difficult to explain why the 2 wheel petrol VRS does not suffer so much.  Presumably down to power curve, ski slow compared to plateau, and the moments of inertia of the heavier rotating diesel engine components.   

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

Or because the Official Scores on the doors seldom reflect real life, & what does 0-62 really mean as comparisons, 

you know driving a car often that vehicles with a 0-62 of around 16 seconds is never really that slow,

and a Heavier VW / Audi or a more expensive model might be tenths of a second quicker with a higher top speed than the lighter cheaper Skoda /Seat.

It is VW Engineering, the engineering of numbers and the Sales Brochures.

Save your money and buy something else. when yo part ex these cars you get nothing for them. I am on my 2nd vrs, it is the latest model TDi, mint condition, and the resale at the dealer was appalling. Lost 10,000 pound in 2 years. I am going the lease a new Scout, same engine, better all round car. After 2 years i can hand it back and free to do whatever. Don't buy a high spec car!!

Looks like you got ripped off at the beginning or the end of ownership. I had my vrs from new, a diesel, did 60 thousand in it and 'lost' £8k in the 5 years I owned it.

But I made sure I got a good deal when I bought it and then looked after it (showroom condition) then sold it to a forum member for my asking price.

Size , space, practicality and anonymity . The Octavia estate is huge and has more rear headroom than the Golf (Important if your son is 6'3") . The boot on the Octavia hatch also makes it practical family car , the cars you listed are weekend toys or second cars imo

 

I don't see them as particularly performance orientated cars just a family car with a decent turn of speed

All wot he said...

Looks like you got ripped off at the beginning or the end of ownership. I had my vrs from new, a diesel, did 60 thousand in it and 'lost' £8k in the 5 years I owned it.

But I made sure I got a good deal when I bought it and then looked after it (showroom condition) then sold it to a forum member for my asking price.

That's the way to do it!!

It is great to get good value of course but there is an argument that screwing dealers (or using internet clearing houses) down to the last pound only creates a very poor dealer network and Skoda, in the space of five years, has gone from having one of the highest rated dealer franchise, by customers and the dealership network rating the franchise to just about the bottom.

 

I hate haggling even though I reckon I reckon I am quite good at it.  Loved the Skoda  "we pay the VAT" deal as was or some of the other official great deals there were, probably will be some out soon to try and drag back the customers leaving in their droves after the emission debacle.

 

Rather buy a car that is already a great price (Dacia) gladly take the extra £500/£750 on offer from Dacia-Renault and smile and save for a hot hatchback.  When the warm weather returns expect to be looking for a proper hot hatch ie the Clio RS, proper track pedigree, reasonably price.  No replacement for the Fabia VRS, other VAG petrols ie Cupra etc have proper credential and better value.  Enjoyed the MK 1 and Mk2 petrol VRS, as people say, lots of performance for relatively small money compared to  benchmark Golf GTI.  VAG need to seriously rethink the Skoda brand and VRS sub-brand.  Good car for Emergency services though in diesel and petrol due to capacity etc. 

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

It is great to get good value of course but there is an argument that screwing dealers (or using internet clearing houses) down to the last pound only creates a very poor dealer network and Skoda, in the space of five years, has gone from having one of the highest rated dealer franchise, by customers and the dealership network rating the franchise to just about the bottom.

I hate haggling even though I reckon I reckon I am quite good at it. Loved the Skoda "we pay the VAT" deal as was or some of the other official great deals there were, probably will be some out soon to try and drag back the customers leaving in their droves after the emission debacle.

Rather buy a car that is already a great price (Dacia) gladly take the extra £500/£750 on offer from Dacia-Renault and smile and save for a hot hatchback. When the warm weather returns expect to be looking for a proper hot hatch ie the Clio RS, proper track pedigree, reasonably price. No replacement for the Fabia VRS, other VAG petrols ie Cupra etc have proper credential and better value. Enjoyed the MK 1 and Mk2 petrol VRS, as people say, lots of performance for relatively small money compared to benchmark Golf GTI. VAG need to seriously rethink the Skoda brand and VRS sub-brand. Good car for Emergency services though in diesel and petrol due to capacity etc.

The current RS clio is a shadow of the former cars. I've owned 172, 172 Cup, 182 Trophy and 200 with Cup pack plus I currently have a stripped 172 that i use for track days.

With the new 200T and 220 Trophy Renaultsport have lost their way IMO.

The current RS clio is a shadow of the former cars. I've owned 172, 172 Cup, 182 Trophy and 200 with Cup pack plus I currently have a stripped 172 that i use for track days. With the new 200T and 220 Trophy Renaultsport have lost their way IMO.

Yeah I have heard many RenaultSport fans say that and read lots of the tests. We had a Williams Renault as a pursuit car with Customs, quite a lot of fun though did not feel too safe in it ie if it crashed it to anything. The new Clio RS is a bit more woolly of course, particularly in the 200 and now improved in the 220, but still relatively lardy compared to the 172s. Good to know there is a giant parts bin with an near endless supply of track parts to make it potentially a supercar embarrassing car and then there is the Megane RS that held the front wheel drive Ring record until recently but nearly £40K for such a thing that shakes your fillings out, no thanks.

The Skoda VRS has become yet bigger in the MK3, quick in petrol form, but unless you want a barge better look to the Leon Cupra etc and the money gap is not so big anymore as was. I am so saddened to see where this brand has gone, going to take a lot to get back on track. Fabia VRS with 192 hp/200hp, the direct plus indirect injection 1.8 TSI gem please, plus proper body kit and a price around £16K would feel about right.

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

I think the current vRS is a big improvement over the old ones. Looks better, drives better, is bigger and they have fitted proper brakes rather than milk bottle tops.