I'll be changing my current Octavia estate for a new one, maybe next year and have a dilemma about what to get.  We have a steepish drive that takes 1/2 hour of work to clear when there's been snow and the council never clears the estate roads and my current Octavia often cannot cope with either. I'll soon be 60 and we can walk to shops at present, but I need a car that'll get us around when I'm older or less mobile.

I've been considering buying one of the 4x4 estates (1.6d or 2.0d), but they are more expensive to buy and run. The alternative is to maybe buy one of the two SE spec models and use winter tyres.  I used to drive a Peugeot 205 with mud/snow tyres on and it was unstoppable in the snow, but would an Octavia be as good?

Any thoughts or experience of these cars would be helpful.

Also, has anyone used or heard of  Nationwide Cars for buying new? They claim to be able to knock nearly £4,000 off a Octavia 4x4 2.0 CR SE model? I've always bought from main dealers, but that kind of saving has to be considered.

Winter tyres no contest. I never clear our drive, which is pretty steep and my lass' FWD on winters goes up and down with no issues, even when we've compacted the snow down to ice. The tyres are both cheaper and more effective. After all 4x0 (traction) = 2x0

 

Though, if you have the money for the 4x4, do what I did and have both.

 

Winter tyres will also help you both brake and turn, which 4 wheel drive does almost nothing for.

Whichever car you decide upon, winter tyres will make it better so I totally agree with Huskoda's comments.

Border Collie

 

You will find this video useful.  It conclusively demonstrates winter tyres are better than 4x4 in the snow.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2cMlNRX_A

 

However, the best would be to have both if money allows. 

 

My ideal "compromise" would be to have 4x4 and Goodyear Vector4seasons all weather tyres. This will save the hassle of changing tyres every 6 months and have very decent performance in all conditions all year round and not just on snow.

 

I would not buy from a main dealer anymore because they won't or can't come close to internet prices.  I bought my last MPV on the net and saved about £3.5K, so well worth doing. In my case Arnold Clarke and it was actually a very pleasant experience. There is very low risk buying online (more likely by phone). 

 

Hope that helps.

FWD in snow on summer tyres = 2 wheels spin

4WD in snow on summer tyres = 4 wheels spin

 

FWD or 4WD in snow on winter tyres = no problem.

Hi.

I live in a winter country (Norway) and have winter roads 5-6 months a year and a lot of hills. I also drive to work often before the roads are cleared of snow in the morning. (Not unusual to drive 20km in up to 20 cm in snow)

I have for the last 5 years had an octy 2 FWD and have not once had any problem or got stuck..

 

there is no question, Winter tires i absolutely the best way to go on snow, just remember, winter tires wear much faster then summer tires if you only have snow or under +15 degrees Celsius a few days a year.

 

And just as importent. buy REAL winter tires, not all weather/year tires, those are neither god summer or winter tires. (rubber too soft for summer/rain and to hard for snow/ice.)

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by Kabe111

Thanks everyone, all answers good and some info that'll help.  I'll probably spend the extra on the 4x4 as it's got diff locks now and decent mpg, even from the 2.0 engine. Good info too on the tyres to look out for, maybe a dealer will fit them for me as a first set.

Until reading this thread I have never considered buying winter tyres for the UK roads, it never seemed worth the effort or expense.

However, I am now seriously considering getting a full set of winter clad cheap steelies, I'd prolly feel safer and it would help protect the gemini anthracites from the perils of over salted roads.

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by soapywetdish

I have an Octavia FL Tsi Vrs with the fancy DSG Box. I fit winter wheels with Kleber (made by michelin ) 205/55/16 Winter  rubber and they are  amazing 

 

Never got stuck and they just love the Cold weather and Snow

Another vote on Vector4seasons. I live up on the hill and drive across Europe in all weather five to ten times a year. About five years ago I saw ADAC test of summer vs winter vs all year tyres and the general consensus was that on regular, everyday, non performance car summer tyres all year long is much worse solution than winter tyres all year long, with top brand all year tyres being the best middle ground.

After that I switched permanently to all season tyres and never looked back. Had two sets of Vredestein Quatrac 2 on O1, Vector4seasons and currently Vredestein Quatrac 3 on my O2FL L&K and Goodyears were marginally better out of the bunch. No loss of grip, no issues with cornering when wet with any of the above tyres, they last me 30-40,000 miles with proper back to front tyre rotation in the middle, but all of them were much quieter than top summer brands, ride is very comfy and most of the time I can get in and out of my driveway in winter (even with DSG).

Don't get me wrong, don't expect miracles, you won't be doing doing WRC in the snow with your Octy just because of all season tyres, but they give you better security in cold weather and to me they have absolutely no downside in summer. I'm a convert, I know I'm not going back to summer tyres any time soon.

This is a silly question, actually. No pun intended. The same laws of physics apply whether you have a 4x4 or front wheel drive, and the only time you will ever have an advantage with a 4x4 over a 2x4, is when you are in an acceleration situation, or when you are about to get going from a stand still. All other things equal.

 

The misconseption that a 4x4 is superior in winter time conditions is also the reason why SUV's are over-represented in the accident statistics. Like Kabe111 says, here in Norway we drive around in snowy conditions several months each year, and like him, I've never though to myself: "I really should have gone for a 4x4 right now". Never.

Getting combi soon !!! I hope on order since April

it's on golus wheels 18" so winter wheels tyres can be 17" cheaper do tyres matter ie makes ? Any recommendations also where to buy ?

it's on golus wheels 18" so winter wheels tyres can be 17" cheaper do tyres matter ie makes ? Any recommendations also where to buy ?

 

The previous vRS could go down to 16" wheels but I think I've seen it mentioned that 17" is the minimum for the mk3. I've just been checking prices and Camskill seem to have the best prices for the size & make that I'm after - Goodyear Ultra Grip 8.

Seconding Camskill, they have the best prices as far as I can see at the moment. I have UltraGrip 8s and my lass' previous car had them too and we were both very happy with them, but for her new car I'm getting Continental TS850s as they seem to have won pretty much every award there was last winter.

Interesting comments from our friends in Norway and it just goes to prove how effective winter tyres are. But I do not necessarily agree that 4x4 has no advantage over 2 wheels except in acceleration. 

 

As I understand it, the Haldex coupling comes into play as soon as the front wheels slip (if the 5th generation of  Haldex clutch is what they claim to be, it would engage almost before slip occurs!). Under normal driving conditions, ie in the dry, on tarmac and normal speeds), 2 wheels are more than sufficient. After all, 2 wheel drives have been around for god knows how long and I would be very worried if it was anything less. 

 

However, when we are talking about marginal conditions, such as in the wet, snow or loose surfaces, hard acceleration on a hill etc,  I think 4 wheels must be better than 2, as traction is spread or directed to other wheels where grip is still available. It should provide better drive and balance around corners too.  Having axle locks will only enhance the situation and I expect (or hope) this would get me out of trouble when I get stuck!

 

I would say that 4x4 is definitely not a must, but would give you that extra margin of grip/handling in that odd situation when you need it most.

Having had a mkI Octavia (FWD) and now a 4x4 mkII on both of which I have used the same winter tyres, I would say that the main difference is in grip when setting off and cornering or driving on changing surfaces but there isn't a big difference, not if your driving sensibly.

 

However, on a large snowy car park with the ESP turned off the 4x4 is a lot more fun...

Interesting comments from our friends in Norway and it just goes to prove how effective winter tyres are. But I do not necessarily agree that 4x4 has no advantage over 2 wheels except in acceleration. 

 

As I understand it, the Haldex coupling comes into play as soon as the front wheels slip (if the 5th generation of  Haldex clutch is what they claim to be, it would engage almost before slip occurs!). Under normal driving conditions, ie in the dry, on tarmac and normal speeds), 2 wheels are more than sufficient. After all, 2 wheel drives have been around for god knows how long and I would be very worried if it was anything less. 

 

However, when we are talking about marginal conditions, such as in the wet, snow or loose surfaces, hard acceleration on a hill etc,  I think 4 wheels must be better than 2, as traction is spread or directed to other wheels where grip is still available. It should provide better drive and balance around corners too.  Having axle locks will only enhance the situation and I expect (or hope) this would get me out of trouble when I get stuck!

 

I would say that 4x4 is definitely not a must, but would give you that extra margin of grip/handling in that odd situation when you need it most.

It is an undisputable fact that the laws of physics makes no difference between two wheel drive or four wheel drive when it comes to sentripetal forces. Once it slips sideways, it slips regardless of drivetrain. Like I said earlier, this is the very reason why SUV's are over represented in the statistics, because many just don't realize this and drive along with a false sense of security. A fairly simple mind experiment is this: Imagine two identical cars coming to a stop on wet ice from let's say 100 kph. One car has 4x4, the other has 2x4. Everything else equal, I can guarantee you that the stopping distance will be the same.

 

The best maneuver one can make when a car starts slipping sideways, is to let go of the throttle. Why would one in such circumstances need 4x4? And trust me, I have experienced this many, many times. Both with 2x4's and 4x4's

Having had a mkI Octavia (FWD) and now a 4x4 mkII on both of which I have used the same winter tyres, I would say that the main difference is in grip when setting off and cornering or driving on changing surfaces but there isn't a big difference, not if your driving sensibly.

 

However, on a large snowy car park with the ESP turned off the 4x4 is a lot more fun...

The only way cornering could be better on slippery surfaces with 4x4, is if the driver manages to seriously oversteer the car. But again, this hinges on the fact that the front wheels still have traction, and the whole maneuver requires that the driver actually throttle up. Now, this isn't something that is recommended by the average driver on the average road.

Car park with 4x4: I couldn't agree more

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by Capo79

The only way cornering could be better on slippery surfaces with 4x4, is if the driver manages to seriously oversteer the car. But again, this hinges on the fact that the front wheels still have traction, and the whole maneuver requires that the driver actually throttle up. Now, this isn't something that is recommended by the average driver on the average road.

Car park with 4x4: I couldn't agree more

 

 

As regarding cornering, what I meant was if you are a little aggressive into a corner and the car starts to understeer, the power is transferred to the back and tends to push you round the corner, but at that point you are on the edge anyway and it may just make the difference between ending up in a ditch facing backwards rather than forwards.

All this discussion has made me remember that in the 1980's I owned an Audi 90 Quattro 2.2 . If I applied too much power in the snow it slid all over the place, but so long as I took it easier, it coped with most things, even with ordinary tyres. 

Once, on a twisting, but wide Scottish road, a Vauxhall Cavalier SRi came right up my tail and kept trying to pass in silly places, so I drove the Quattro as it was meant to be driven and he didn't dare try to keep up or he would have lost it. The Quattro stuck to the road like glue, even when driven hard. I'm not sure how the Haldex clutch and electronic diff locking system works on the new Otcavias, but it should help a lot on icy streets and steep drives.

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by Border Collie

. A fairly simple mind experiment is this: Imagine two identical cars coming to a stop on wet ice from let's say 100 kph. One car has 4x4, the other has 2x4. Everything else equal, I can guarantee you that the stopping distance will be the same.

I suspect the 4x4 will take longer to stop due to the extra weight.

Actually the laws of physics dictate that the heavier an object the quicker it stops. With proper breaks a fully loaded truck will stop quicker than even a sports car (check the web for videos, quite impressive). F = uN (F-friction force, u-friction coefficient, N-normal pressure, I hope I got the English terms right).

 

To add to the tire debate, my opinion is if you got the cash, get a summer and a winter tire set. Just like our Norwegian colleagues said, the all season tires are neither here nor there. They perform worse than summer tires in the dry and worse than the winter tires in wet/snow/icy conditions.

 

My all time favorite winter tires are the Continental WinterSport (whichever version you can find should be great). With my lowly 1.6 petrol with those on I could get to heavily snowed in places where other much more powerful cars and 4x4s (on summer tires) could barely move. And believe me, we get some pretty harsh winters over here. Last year we had some villages covered under 5 (!) meters of snow. You could only see the tree tops anymore and they had to use explosive charges to get down to the houses to get the people out.

Edited 1 September, 201312 yr by TudorM

I have UltraGrip 8s and my lass' previous car had them too and we were both very happy with them, but for her new car I'm getting Continental TS850s as they seem to have won pretty much every award there was last winter.

 

I was just going to do an 'about turn' from the Ultra Grip 8's to the 850's as the reviews have been so good but then I find that they don't do them in the size I want!

 

Back to the original plan........

_{Yes. Just imagine braking on ice with summer tyres 4x4 and winter tyres 4x2.}

Edited 2 September, 201312 yr by eldawido

Choosing winter tyres check ADAC tests.

Last time the Conti TS830, Dunlop 4D and Goodyear Ultragrip8 got best results.