Oh let's not go down that road of branded & supermarket fuels, it's a load of tosh IMHO,

Sorry you do not have a clue what you are talking about. The approved and proven additives are not only there to improve fuel economy, they also ensure that the high precision fuel injection components are kept clean and help to prevent build up of carbon and other harmful deposits in the cylinders, valves, valve guides, head and lubricating oil.

Edited 16 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

Whilst I wouldnt per say want to argue the merits of putting 2 stroke into a diesel car I simply cannot understand someone being willing to take the risk in doing this on a brand new 20-odd K car, from the word go invalidating the warranty.

Diesels even modern ones are inherently a bit more noisy than their petrol counterparts but its hardly intrusive, VAG CR particularly so, does honestly just seem rather pointless, and expensiv3 as decent 2 stroke oil isnt exactly really cheap.

Yep. Like lots of motorists I've seen the rhetorical gibber about fuels and I've done loads & loads of tests with it and not one tank full has made any difference in mpg.

 

All I've done is pay through the nose for something that just has a higher price and has no beneficial qualities whatsoever. 

Yep. Like lots of motorists I've seen the rhetorical gibber about fuels and I've done loads & loads of tests with it and not one tank full has made any difference in mpg.

 

All I've done is pay through the nose for something that just has a higher price and has no beneficial qualities whatsoever.

Well if you honestly believe that your findings are better than those of petro chemical engineers in the countries largest refinery - that supplies fuel to all retailers then you carry on believing it. I'll listen to the experts.

Experts who're in the pockets of a select few. 

Experts who're in the pockets of a select few.

How on earth to you work that out - the refinery in question supplies oil to Murco, Tesco, Sainsburys, Asda, as well as BP, Esso and Shell. Whose selected few did you have in mind as they have to be impartial in their testes and results. You do not have any basis for your completely unfounded comment. Your remark has completely undermined any validity in your argument.

Timoctav.

When are the additives added?

 

I can only presume carefully metered and  injected into the fill pipework, when the HGV tanker is being filled?

 

Or is it a batch system, but this would appear to be very inflexible, requiring a large no of seperate tanks.

 

I understand that we in Ireland have a facility at Belfast, plus a refinery? facility at Cork.

 

All fuel sold in Ireland comes from one of these 2 locations, or so I have been told.

So fuel sold in Donegal filling stations all comes from Belfast, a lot of which then goes straight back over the border in the tanks of the queues of cars waiting for cheaper Irish diesel.

Sigh

The worlds mad.

Whilst I buy supermarket fuel, probably nominally about 50% of the time only, and always Sainsburys.(a geographical happenstance)

The rest of the time it is one of the 3 big "branded" fln. stations in the town.

Edited 16 September, 201312 yr by dieseldogg

Timoctav.

When are the additives added?

 

That I don't know, but I will try and find out and post the answer here

Ha, vested interest. Should have known, coming from Scummerville. 

Ha, vested interest. Should have known, coming from Scummerville. 

 

No vested interest here, I only live in Scummerville, I don't work there - or for the petro-chemical industry  ....

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

Can anyone really be bothered to do this? Regardless of it's supposed benefits, It's boring enough to stand there filling up the car with diesel. To then have to get a bottle and top up with required amount of oil!

Can't say the engine noise was noticeable on my CR and once your moving the tyre/wind noise are far louder than the engine.

All I know is I won't be taking the risk adding anything to my fuel with my brand new car.

When I had my Ford C Max 1.8 petrol, I got an average 3-6 mpg more per tank by using BP / ESSO fuel compared to Tesco and apart from my 400BHP Impreza which was mapped to BP Ultimate (was Shell but the only one in West Cumbria closed) with extra RON additives, I've never notice much difference between for example BP and BP Ultimate fuel.

My local Seat garage has recommended it's customers to not use supermarket fuel after they had a dozen or so cars come in with faults and the only connection they could find was they all refuelled at the local Tesco garage. If I remember right don't the supermarkets use fuels which are part bio fuel? As I can remember quite a few years ago they had a bad batch and a self employed white van man sued them as his sprinter packed in and he manage to take Tesco to court and won for damage to his van and loss of earnings etc. In that case Tesco didn't pay at first so he got a high court writ and they turned up at a Tesco Extra and confiscated a load of booze, TVs ect till they payed up.

On the plus side the cheapest fuel where I live is ESSO so win win.

Good post Mike83. I do agree with your comments about using BP Ultimate / Shell V power Nitro in cars unless the engines are specifically set up for high octane fuel ( petrol). My sports car is set up for 98 and I always try to use the high octane fuel in it, but I wouldn't put "super diesel" in my Octavia.

Lada had it sussed 40 year ago.

A knurled adjuster knob sticking out the side of the distributor (I believe I recall) marked with increments for different fuel grades/octane ratings.

I presume it simply altered the spark timing.

Surely modern engine and sensor technology is getting to the point where the engine managment could in real time "analyze" the fuel, or at least how it burns or preforms, and then automatically make the necessery adjustments, within pre-set parameters.

Or shut the engine down.

OR go into "limp mode"

Lada had it sussed 40 year ago.

A knurled adjuster knob sticking out the side of the distributor (I believe I recall) marked with increments for different fuel grades/octane ratings.

I presume it simply altered the spark timing.

Surely modern engine and sensor technology is getting to the point where the engine managment could in real time "analyze" the fuel, or at least how it burns or preforms, and then automatically make the necessery adjustments, within pre-set parameters.

Or shut the engine down.

OR go into "limp mode"

Modern petrol engines already do this by means of "knock" sensors that detect pre ignition through poor fuels and adjust the timing accordingly to accommodate

If I remember right don't the supermarkets use fuels which are part bio fuel?

 

I'm afraid all diesel contains Biodiesel these days. BS EN 590, which is the standard diesel must conform to in the UK (and Europe) must have 3.5% Biodiesel content but can have up to 7% Biodiesel content. I think a lot of supermarkets sell the 7% stuff, whereas I suspect the likes of Shell sell lower Bio content diesel.

 

I do think there is something to the additives in Shell/BP etc fuels. On supermarket diesel my MKII 2.0PD is quite smoky, yet when run on regular Shell fuelsave diesel it is significantly less smoky. Shell fuel definitely froths less than my local Tesco's fuel too. I'm not one to be swayed by marketing (I own 2 Skodas for crying out loud!) but I do consider Tesco fuel to be significantly inferior to my local Shell fuel based on my experience of using the two......to the point that I now bin or give away the 5p/litre off Tesco fuel vouchers, rather than use their fuel.    

 

As for putting 2 stroke oil in a modern CR diesel engine......just don't.

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by booke23

Quality fuel is absolutely critical to the reliable operation of any engine, I'm a marine engineer, or at least I was before I came ashore a few years ago, and the nightmares we used to have if we ever took on poor quality fuels - and makes me very "picky" with what I put in my cars, backed up with what I've learned from fuel scientists.

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

There have been more branded vs. supermarket fuel threads on Briskoda over the years than I care to remember.

 

I've read most of them with interest as I'd genuinely like to know the truth but alas most of them just contain theories, observations and the usual "my mate works at the refinary and reckons..."

 

If I worked for BP or Shell etc. and I knew my fuel was superior to the competition (whether that be branded or supermarket) then I'd be shouting it from the roof tops.

 

Likewise if I worked for ASDA and was confident my fuel was every bit as good as the branded stuff then I too would be keen to promote it.

 

The fact that neither side try's to demonstrate the advantages of their fuel versus the competition makes me suspicious of the entire industry.

My knowledge of fuels comes not only from leading petrochemical scientists but also from an organisation known as FOBAS, this is an independent test house, designed primarily for the marine industry that tests fuel not only for the marine industry but for also for aviation and automotive clients. FOBAS is a specialist division of Lloyds Register, one of the world's leading entirely independent classification societies. They also support the facts behind premium grade petrol and diesel fuels, no vested interests whatsoever. I'll believe them and hard facts, not prejudice and fiction.

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

If only they published their findings for us all to see.

If only they published their findings for us all to see.

They can - take a fuel sample and send to them for analysis - but trust me it is very very expensive! But as I've said before I am an engineer by profession, ended up as Chief Engineer on ships that had truly awesome Diesel engines - 90,000 bhp - believe me I had to know a lot about fuels and I can guarantee you they are NOT all the same!

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

Hey, you don't mess with the Chief Engineer or whatever he has to say! That's one of the things I learnt after working on quite a number of marine vessels...

Hey, you don't mess with the Chief Engineer or whatever he has to say! That's one of the things I learnt after working on quite a number of marine vessels...

A chief engineer can be many things, including being stupid, and ignorant but NEVER EVER wrong !!!

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by Timoctav

A chief engineer can be many things, including being stupid, and ignorant but NEVER EVER wrong !!!

 

Chist my wife's been promoted AND she kept that quiet

I use regularly the 2 stroke oil.....in my Stihl chainsaw