Ok guys the time has come for me to build a tdi for my rally car as the msa have altered the rules a bit on restrictors now.

what are my options for a good strong motor with a broad spread of power and torque that I can have?.

I am restricted to a 38mm restrictor on the inlet for the turbo which I think is the same as a vnt 17 anyway? so using a massive turbo won't gain me much.

The gearbox and clutch will be on top of the job with a plate lsd too and I will have a play with different ratios to suit.

It will be used for tarmac rallies as I can't see it working so well on gravel so it needs to be reasonably tractable and able to make decent power up in the revs a bit.

I have a MPPS clone and am capable of messing with the map myself to an extent and I have just bought a fabia tdi as a road car/guine pig.

basics I think so far are prob pd 130 bottom end (is 150 any stronger?)

whichever turbo will work with a 38mm inlet restriction and not be laggy

biggest surface area intercooler I can find and either water injection (may be almost banned tho) or a water spray onto the intercooler to try and keep temps down during tight twisty stages where there may be lots of slow corners and not much airflow.

Ideas from the experienced big power guys...

cheers 

 

VNT17 hybrid probably OK to use then - circa 230bhp with supporting mods.

 

PD130/150 engines are totally identical in terms of block and head - just the bolt ons (turbo & FMIC for pd150) that gives it the +20.

 

Water spray not essential but a big cooler definitely worth it.

 

I have no idea what inlet a VNT17 has though.  If its bigger than 38mm, you are seriously scuppered for turbo choice.

A gt1749va has a 34mm inducer

Gt1749vb has a 36

Gtb1752v from a t5 is 38.6 won't bolt on

Gt1749vc 36.3 but won't bolt on so look at a bv43a.

Gtb1756vk 41.5 darkside do kits.

All taken from here http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300010

Good old 1752 hybrid looks a good choice and simple bolt on.

Thanks guys, what supporting mods do you think then to suit?

Intercooler like you already mentioned. That's about it as you'll do the mapping yourself. Arl head bolts might be an idea for when you advanced the start of injection.

Is the 38 restrictor chosen by the msa or fia out of interest?

My bad it is a 37mm restrictor

48.2.1. Production Car Engines with a maximum of six

cylinders:

a) Petrol engines with forced induction 2000cc with a

34mm restrictor or 2500cc with a 32mm restrictor,

and diesel engines with forced induction 2500cc

with a 37mm restrictor.

which I guess is FIA but not totally sure on that

are you restricted to using diesel fuel only? propane injection ftw!!

They are banning any type of additional injection Tom, but as with everything ,people find ways around etc.

I prefer to finish 2nd and legal than 1st and bent but plenty do, 2.5 Scooby motors etc

Should be a fun wee beasty with 200bhp if I can get that think she will need seam welding tho lol

People report around 200-205bhp with the VC and bv43a turbo so 200 should be easy doable which ever turbo you go for. Hybrid probably easiest.

The VC is from the 170 BHP transverse engines that come with manifold so don't fit the 8v head. Bv43a is from the long 170 BHP engines. These easly mate to the afn. 8v manifolds. Shouldn't take much work to fit the fabia. Tempted to do this myself.

Bumping this, just got off the phone from the MSA tech people and they say as long as the inlet can be measured at 37mm or less then no restrictor is needed at all 

I have just bought a Vrs fabia minus all the fancy seats and trim so mission is on once I have fixed the leaking injector, soo the plan is swap everything from my current 1.6 fabia into the vrs shell as it is bound to be a bit stronger and it's 4 years newer and tidy, I have a an old 4x4 cosworth intercooler that will probly find it's way on for now but it may be a bit small (it may be a std one not sure) so that will get rid of the side mount which would be a bit prone sat where it does.

I guess the first expense is going to be an uprated clutch followed by a wavetrac lsd while I find the limits of the std turbo then hopefully everything should be in place ready for more boost after a few rallies.

any pointers guys, suspension is already in hand but no idea on front spring rates yet lol..

The SMIC is pretty small, and sits in a hot spot anyway. Going to an FMIC will reduce the environment temperature for the IC, so will give you better charge cooling, and less heating after a few stage miles.

Sounds interesting! Is there many others with diesel rally cars? I don't think I've ever seen one. 

Just a note on the gearbox.

 

When the box on my PD130 Cordoba went bang I had it reconditioned.

 

It was the long box code FJW and the same as the box used up to around 2004 in the Fabia vRS.

 

It went off to a company to rebuild. Needed a new casing so they sourced a reconditioned unit.

 

Fitted to the car and then it was apparant they had got the gearing wrong. The guy from the garage drove it to see what I meant and he said it felt like a rally car gearing (he then went on to tell me he used to rally cars etc).

 

So basically it seems they actually fitted the wrong gear set to the box which gave it very low gearing... was very nippy but topped out at about 100mph!

 

He also said this can be achieved by chaning the diff gearing.

 

What year vRS is it you have? If it's an early one then you may feel the gearing is slightly too long...

 

Phil

Just a note on the gearbox.

 

When the box on my PD130 Cordoba went bang I had it reconditioned.

 

It was the long box code FJW and the same as the box used up to around 2004 in the Fabia vRS.

 

It went off to a company to rebuild. Needed a new casing so they sourced a reconditioned unit.

 

Fitted to the car and then it was apparant they had got the gearing wrong. The guy from the garage drove it to see what I meant and he said it felt like a rally car gearing (he then went on to tell me he used to rally cars etc).

 

So basically it seems they actually fitted the wrong gear set to the box which gave it very low gearing... was very nippy but topped out at about 100mph!

 

He also said this can be achieved by chaning the diff gearing.

 

What year vRS is it you have? If it's an early one then you may feel the gearing is slightly too long...

 

Phil

2004 mate do you know what the gearbox codes are?

Still had the thread in my favourites about the gearboxes and ratios etc:

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/177793-fabia-vrs-gearbox-changes/

 

Post no. 8 has the codes and there's a nice little table showing the ratios and theoretical speeds vs rpm etc.

 

Although the gearing etc in my Cordoba allowed for a 138mph (GPS) top speed with a standard PD130.

 

Phil

Edited 16 October, 201312 yr by Phil-E

Brilliant quite a change there, I'll look in a bit to see what I have HDS is the short ratio one then..

Well waddya know, the sticker in the boot says HDS just need to get her working now and see how good everything is.

Super!

 

I think the other box would be too long for rally use. 6th was not usuable unless doing 60mph+ and even 5th could only really be used above 45-50mph.

 

What engine is it? BLT? Or an early 2004 with an ASZ?

 

Phil

Well I'm not sure mate it has had a replacement engine at some point, the injectors are all 2006 but I need to clean up the block and see what the code is, hopefully not atd lol

2006 you say. So quite likely it is the BLT engine wich came in on euro IV emmissions on the MK1 face lift.

I'll be real interested in the spring rates you go for on the front, as the PD sure is heavy!

Edited 16 October, 201312 yr by ickleginge

Yeah spring rates will be interesting. I worked out the rates for some of the off the shelf kits. Will dig it out.

As a side note. Did you buy your avo inserts seperate? As in just the inserts then fitted them to the strut?

Yea I am on 300lb springs at the mo, my front suspension is similar to old motorbike forks with the damper upside down sliding on bronze bushes,(monotube I think it's called) AVO made the dampers to my spec with adjustable damping to suit the top mounts etc. I can't fault them at all and they have undoubtedly saved us from a few potentially huge accidents lol.

does anyone know the weight of the pd with 6 speed box?. 

to show how good the avo are this a sequance of pics from epynt when I missed the caution for deers leap and took it far too fast, if I still had the bilstein dampers fitted which I removed just before this event the outcome would have been far different

Love that jump at epynt, i often go to see the foresters rally club around epynt, pembrey etc.