How would the actually performance and feel of car differ if one had more torque and the other more bhp? For example, my old fabia had 179 bhp and 340 pound of torque, a remapped cr vrs Octavia will have more bhp, 200 ish but less torque, around 300 pound. How would they compare? Am I right it's bhp which helps 0 to 60 times? So in that case would the Octavia be faster to 60 but the fabia faster in gear? Or would they both cancel each other out and be a pretty similar car to drive?

Torque is a turning force, so it relates to acceleration. BHP is the cars ability at maintaining it's top speed.

Then why does a car with higher bhp and relatively low torque like a rx8 still exelarate quickly off the line?

Weight, better traction, different gearing...

Weight, traction, gearing...

Then why does a car with higher bhp and relatively low torque like a rx8 still exelarate quickly off the line?

 

This has a ****el rotary engine so not really comparing like for like. Also the bhp figure quoted is peek so the rest of the rev range could be crap. an RX8 revs to something like 9000 rpm so you have to ring its neck to get medium performance. A vehicle with lots of torque on the other hand should shift off the line quickly at lower revs. Horses for Courses!

 

why is it sensoring w4nkel?

When you lose it on a bend and hit a fence

BHP determines how fast you are going when you hit the fence

Torque determines how much of the fence you rip out.

(The old ones are the best)

When you lose it on a bend and hit a fence

BHP determines how fast you are going when you hit the fence

Torque determines how much of the fence you rip out.

(The old ones are the best)

 

Never got this analagy seeing as a car ontop of a hill with a dodgy handbrake has enough potential energy to wipe a building out let alone a fence

The rule of thumb I use is, BHP + LB/ft and divide by 2, to get a power figure, then divide this by kerb weight. So a car with 160bhp + 130lb/ft = 290 total power, divide by 2 = 145 units of power. Car weighs 1200kg (1.2t) so 145 divide by 1.2t = 120 units power per ton. I feel 100 per ton is adequate, 150 is useful and 200 is quick. I found It works well for estimating the general, real world, drive-ability of a car. 

Using your figures, Fabia total power = 519 / 2 = 259, divide by weight, around 1200kg? (1.2t) = 216.

The octavia is total 500 units power, divide 2 = 250 and divide by 1.4t? = 180ish. So based on this I would think the Fabia would feel quite a bit quicker on the road than the Octavia. There are factors which affect the outcome, like number of gears ect, so you have to try and take this into account when assessing and comparing the individual cars.         

The rule of thumb I use is, BHP + LB/ft and divide by 2, to get a power figure, then divide this by kerb weight. So a car with 160bhp + 130lb/ft = 290 total power, divide by 2 = 145 units of power. Car weighs 1200kg (1.2t) so 145 divide by 1.2t = 120 units power per ton. I feel 100 per ton is adequate, 150 is useful and 200 is quick. I found It works well for estimating the general, real world, drive-ability of a car. 

Using your figures, Fabia total power = 519 / 2 = 259, divide by weight, around 1200kg? (1.2t) = 216.

The octavia is total 500 units power, divide 2 = 250 and divide by 1.4t? = 180ish. So based on this I would think the Fabia would feel quite a bit quicker on the road than the Octavia. There are factors which affect the outcome, like number of gears ect, so you have to try and take this into account when assessing and comparing the individual cars.         

That's cleared that up then.........

That's cleared that up then.........

 

Not really by the same calculation first one came into my head

 

Honda Civic Type R= 293

Dodge Viper RT 10 = 263

 

You telling me that the Type r feels quicker than a viper?

Interesting?

Not really by the same calculation first one came into my head

 

Honda Civic Type R= 293

Dodge Viper RT 10 = 263

 

You telling me that the Type r feels quicker than a viper?

 

 

Hang on a minute i didn't divide mine by 2 before dividing it by the kerb weight, not that it would make much difference to the power to weight ratio.

But that said how do you arrive at 519 and 500 for the Fabia and Octavia respectively? Are you on crack?

Hang on a minute i didn't divide mine by 2 before dividing it by the kerb weight, not that it would make much difference to the power to weight ratio.

But that said how do you arrive at 519 and 500 for the Fabia and Octavia respectively? Are you on crack?

Read MikeJay's original post, which strongly implies a tuned Furbie (stock PD130 I think gives 130+ 230 or thereabouts). 

BHP is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

Read MikeJay's original post, which strongly implies a tuned Furbie (stock PD130 I think gives 130+ 230 or thereabouts). 

 

Still the formula is fubar

BHP is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

This was how it was taught to me ....

BHP is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

 

Ah so its a wall and not a fence now   Analagy still makes no sense.

Still the formula is fubar

Really? Are you seriously saying that 179+340 is not 519?

 

Oh and for the record, I'd expect said tuned Furbie to be faster over, say, 5 to 90 mph through the gears than the tuned Octy, but the Octy to be faster flat out and from 100 up over increments (assuming neither car revs out in top before they stop accelerating).

Really? Are you seriously saying that 179+340 is not 519?

 

Oh and for the record, I'd expect said tuned Furbie to be faster over, say, 5 to 90 mph through the gears than the tuned Octy, but the Octy to be faster flat out and from 100 up over increments (assuming neither car revs out in top before they stop accelerating).

 

No the calculation is correct but the formula is fubar. It doesn't take into consideration a great many things its just arbitrary numbers that mean didly squat.

In my view torque should be completely ignored in favour of horsepower at the various rev points and where you are cruising at whilst driving.

 

How quick a car in gear is entirely dependent on how much horsepower it is producing at Wide Open Throttle at that moment in time.

 

Here is an engine with lots of torque http://www.wartsila.com/en/engines/low-speed-engines/RT-flex96C   but you would not want it in you car. F1 cars produce similar torque to road cars but just rev higher but also have a wide torque band ie 6k to 18k revs.  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_torque_does_a_Formula_1_car_have  The new turbo 1.6Ts will be even more driveable and fuel efficient. 

 

It is power that relates to the Acceleration  = Force/Mass.     Force is power not torque.

 

Power = 2 * Pi * revs * torque

 

Revs is equally important as torque and it is power that pushes you up the road, power at the revs you are at or can access and between optimal gear changes. 

How would the actually performance and feel of car differ if one had more torque and the other more bhp? For example, my old fabia had 179 bhp and 340 pound of torque, a remapped cr vrs Octavia will have more bhp, 200 ish but less torque, around 300 pound. How would they compare? Am I right it's bhp which helps 0 to 60 times? So in that case would the Octavia be faster to 60 but the fabia faster in gear? Or would they both cancel each other out and be a pretty similar car to drive?

 

Here you go.....

 

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1357-3286.htm 

 

Duel : Skoda Octavia II RS 2.0 TFSi vs Skoda Fabia II RS

 

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match1357-3286.htm  

 

Battle : Octavia II RS 2.0 TFSi vs Fabia II RS

No the calculation is correct but the formula is fubar. It doesn't take into consideration a great many things its just arbitrary numbers that mean didly squat.

Its a 'rule of thumb' calculation to give some idea how the cars might feel on the road, Its not supposed to replace a group test with two of your chosen vehicles compared together with timing kit  . If you have a look at the stat's of previous car's you've driven and do the calculation's and just compare this to how you felt the car performed verses other car's its usually close.

Its interesting if you compare the same model but with Diesel/petrol power. Hyundai i30 1.6 petrol compared to 1.6 crdi. Petrol is 119 mph 0-60  11 sec, crdi 117 mph 11.5 sec 0-60. So although there not much in it if you went with these figures you would assume the petrol was the better performing car? Most people though would know that, on the road, the diesel would be the better bet.

If you compare, CRDi = 113 bhp + 192 lb/ft = 305 / 2 = 152 / 1.4t = 109. The petrol is 119 bhp + 114 lb/ft = 233 / 2 = 116.5 / 1.3t = 90.

So 90 for petrol verses 109 for diesel. I think many folk would probably feel this difference shows how the car's feel on the road?

But your mileage may vary  :sun:

Its a 'rule of thumb' calculation to give some idea how the cars might feel on the road, Its not supposed to replace a group test with two of your chosen vehicles compared together with timing kit  . If you have a look at the stat's of previous car's you've driven and do the calculation's and just compare this to how you felt the car performed verses other car's its usually close.

Its interesting if you compare the same model but with Diesel/petrol power. Hyundai i30 1.6 petrol compared to 1.6 crdi. Petrol is 119 mph 0-60  11 sec, crdi 117 mph 11.5 sec 0-60. So although there not much in it if you went with these figures you would assume the petrol was the better performing car? Most people though would know that, on the road, the diesel would be the better bet.

If you compare, CRDi = 113 bhp + 192 lb/ft = 305 / 2 = 152 / 1.4t = 109. The petrol is 119 bhp + 114 lb/ft = 233 / 2 = 116.5 / 1.3t = 90.

So 90 for petrol verses 109 for diesel. I think many folk would probably feel this difference shows how the car's feel on the road?

But your mileage may vary  :sun:

 

Sorry still not convinced. The bhp and Torque figure is at a very specific place in the rev range Your talking about 'feeling' of power which is a relative term that simply can't be quantified. I used the example above because the Viper is 3.5 tonnes yet i can assure you feels like its got loads of power. Where as the Civic type R is 1.3 tonnes and doesn't feel like its got loads of power because you have to rev the bejesus out of it. However by your formula the Viper gets out punched by the civic. Like i said its just numbers and has even less significance when used on 'tuned' cars because their gearboxes arn't designed to suit the extra power so the power delivery is scewed. By your formula best way to improve a cars 'feeling of power' is to make it weigh less.

"By your formula best way to improve a cars 'feeling of power' is to make it weigh less." Exactly.