"By your formula best way to improve a cars 'feeling of power' is to make it weigh less." Exactly. 

 

No that would improve the time taken to reach a speed but not necessarily give you a visceral feeling of power.

By the same token are you advocating that when you drive 'downhill' it gives the car a feeling of more power?

 

Nonsense! Your mixing up apples and pears and pretending it gives you an orange in fact its giving you a lemon

Torque is a turning force, therefore force = torque.

Power is not a measure of force, it is defined as the amount of energy consumed per unit time (like watts). So it has nothing to do with the A = F/M formula.

http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Acceleration

In my view torque should be completely ignored in favour of horsepower at the various rev points and where you are cruising at whilst driving.

 

How quick a car in gear is entirely dependent on how much horsepower it is producing at Wide Open Throttle at that moment in time.

 

Here is an engine with lots of torque http://www.wartsila.com/en/engines/low-speed-engines/RT-flex96C   but you would not want it in you car. F1 cars produce similar torque to road cars but just rev higher but also have a wide torque band ie 6k to 18k revs.  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_torque_does_a_Formula_1_car_have  The new turbo 1.6Ts will be even more driveable and fuel efficient. 

 

It is power that relates to the Acceleration  = Force/Mass.     Force is power not torque.

 

Power = 2 * Pi * revs * torque

 

Revs is equally important as torque and it is power that pushes you up the road, power at the revs you are at or can access and between optimal gear changes. 

Here is another old Tank engine you would not want in your car :sun:

 

Not really by the same calculation first one came into my head

 

Honda Civic Type R= 293

Dodge Viper RT 10 = 263

 

You telling me that the Type r feels quicker than a viper?

Not really by the same calculation first one came into my head

 

Honda Civic Type R= 293

Dodge Viper RT 10 = 263

 

You telling me that the Type r feels quicker than a viper?

Twas tongue in cheek

Have you thought about just going and test driving a CR Octavia? I'm thinking it might be more use than these various questions comparing the two. Just a though. I thoroughly enjoyed driving my brothers.  

I have a cr octavia. Getting it mapped next week. Obviously drove both standard but not both mapped

Ahh I see! I suspect it'll be more of the same? From talking to my mapper they are much smoother than a PD even when mapped but then I assume it depends what map you request too. It'll not feel as quick as it's quieter etc. 

Sorry still not convinced. Redhp and Torque figure is at a very specific place in the rev range Your talking about 'feeling' of power which is a relative term that simply can't be quantified. I used the example above because the Viper is 3.5 tonnes yet i can assure you feels like its got loads of power. Where as the Civic type R is 1.3 tonnes and doesn't feel like its got loads of power because you have to rev the bejesus out of it. However by your formula the Viper gets out punched by the civic. Like i said its just numbers and has even less significance when used on 'tuned' cars because their gearboxes arn't designed to suit the extra power so the power delivery is scewed. By your formula best way to improve a cars 'feeling of power' is to make it weigh less.

Your civic/viper argument has a massive error. The viper weighs 3500lbs, not 3.5 tonnes. Re try the math with the actual weight of 1.5 tonnes and the outcome will be a little different!

Civic = 293

Viper = 375

Quite a change in the outcome - I think the viper may feel a little faster than the civic now! I'd agree with the formula as a base for 'real world' drivability

Edited 12 October, 201312 yr by 60greyhound

Your civic/viper argument has a massive error. The viper weighs 3500lbs, not 3.5 tonnes. Re try the math with the actual weight of 1.5 tonnes and the outcome will be a little different!

Civic = 293

Viper = 746

Quite a change in the outcome - I think the viper may feel a little faster than the civic now! I'd agree with the formula as a base for 'real world' drivability

 

Ah damn americans the site i went on just said 3.338 I though that was heavy but then i would have expected the massive engine to weight 1.5 tonne on its own.

They even use their on measurement for a Gallon, and some people read road tests & how low the MPG achieved is in the US,

and never think how many litres that was to the gallon..

 

george

I have a cr octavia. Getting it mapped next week. Obviously drove both standard but not both mapped

I would be interested in your thoughts after the re map, I understand some of these engines are now being fitted with tamper proof ECU's by the manufacturers to stop after market re map's ? They would rather you pay them £1500 or so for the privilege, when you by the car, and buy the more powerful version of the engine  :think:  :sun:   

I would be interested in your thoughts after the re map, I understand some of these engines are now being fitted with tamper proof ECU's by the manufacturers to stop after market re map's ? They would rather you pay them £1500 or so for the privilege, when you by the car, and buy the more powerful version of the engine  :think:  :sun:   

There is no such thing as a "tamper-proof ECU", only one that hasn't been cracked yet. Ask BossFox for example.

I would be interested in your thoughts after the re map, I understand some of these engines are now being fitted with tamper proof ECU's by the manufacturers to stop after market re map's ? They would rather you pay them £1500 or so for the privilege, when you by the car, and buy the more powerful version of the engine  :think:  :sun:   

 

Thing is, even the most powerful "off the shelf engine" (in the sector we're in - not sure if you could remap a Veyron ) can still be remapped. This "tamper-proofing" (for want of a better phrase) feels very much like Apple's IOS and Jail-breaking: "If we don't do it, we don't see why anyone else should be allowed to do it!" kind of thing. FFS it's my car, I paid for it, I should be allowed to do with it as I see fit. The same with the new ICE systems and needing to be hooked into Skoda (at expense) to upgrade, or great expense to remove the "protection" system on the car that would allow me to do with it as I see fit.

 

The more this goes on, the cheaper the cars should be, as they don't seem to be ours any more.

 

It's like buying a house and being told you can't re-decorate.

There is no such thing as a "tamper-proof ECU", only one that hasn't been cracked yet. Ask BossFox for example.

I am happier if the job can be done with no signs of tampering,I am sure most cars can be sorted by an expert. I am also running a re mapped Focus 1.8 tdci at the moment, work done by P-toque 4 years ago and the car is still going nicely, with no visible signs of any work being done. People who have this done will know that if the car is driven sensibly and serviced properly there is no reliability issues but it might put dealers/buyers off when I come to sell if they spot its been remapped?

I would be interested in getting the Superb done as the 140cr unit seems to show a nice improvement after a re-map.      

I am happier if the job can be done with no signs of tampering,I am sure most cars can be sorted by an expert. I am also running a re mapped Focus 1.8 tdci at the moment, work done by P-toque 4 years ago and the car is still going nicely, with no visible signs of any work being done. People who have this done will know that if the car is driven sensibly and serviced properly there is no reliability issues but it might put dealers/buyers off when I come to sell if they spot its been remapped?

I would be interested in getting the Superb done as the 140cr unit seems to show a nice improvement after a re-map.      

Mappers "go in" through the diagnostics port. The "tamper-proofing" is in the form of encryption of the OEM map data. All it takes to "crack" an ECU is to discover the key to the encryption (which has to be simple enough for the ECU to decrypt the data in real time. You're not going to be left with tool marks all over the ECU case if that's your concern.

It is a free world when it comes to modifying & tuning, you can Remap if you like & Tamper Proof ECU's can be mapped.

Just do not expect the Manufacturers to honour a Warranty Claim on a Engine and maybe a gearbox or even drivetrain,

if the Manufacturers Warranty states that they will not.

 

That is their right where someone is Modifying or doing un-approved softwear upgrades.

Also their right if they ask you if a Re-map has been done and you declare no, and they discover there is, to pursue the person trying to defraud

on the Insurance/Warranty for the costs of Warranty work that was carried out.

 

george

Mappers "go in" through the diagnostics port. The "tamper-proofing" is in the form of encryption of the OEM map data. All it takes to "crack" an ECU is to discover the key to the encryption (which has to be simple enough for the ECU to decrypt the data in real time. You're not going to be left with tool marks all over the ECU case if that's your concern.

I did wonder if ECU's had to be opened and parts 'adjusted'. Superchips states that their bluefin boxes can't be used without a visit to one of their specialist fitters? Which had me wondering..