CG Motorsport SMF Clutch Kits

[Andy@CG-Motorsport]

Hi Guys,

We currently have a customer of ours trying to drag our name and products through the mud and I would like to set the record straight on the forum.

The Single Mass Flywheel kits we sell are all sold with the information that.... 'Whilst these kits are advertised as Silent, there are secondary factors that can affect the noises transmitted through this kit. These noises are completely normal and do not affect the running or longevity of the clutch, flywheel or any other part on the vehicle. Most of these noises are covered up by the dual mass flywheel and are extremely difficult to hide when running a single mass. However, these kits transmit much less noise than any other kit on the market and in 90% of cases ARE silent.'

As a company we pride our selves on customer service which I am sure the majority of the forum will agree with. We listen to feedback and amend issues as soon as possible.

We will not however be bullied or have our reputation threatened if someone does not like the feel of the products we supply. We will always try to help customers out, advise them on possible changes to their driving style and help them get the best out of our products and most importantly their car.

To that end if you are going to read the drivel posted by Billy2981 about our kits please take the time to read his earlier posts before he decided he wanted to change the kit. He is now demanding a full refund, which we are not prepared to give as there is no mechanical issue with the kit. The issue is preference, you can not return a respray once its been done if you go off the colour... the same principle is in effect here.

We do feel our reputation has been held hostage here, so please if you are one of our customers and have one of our kits please give some feedback below. Please especially post if it is to do with our customer care or service as this is what is most important to myself, Linda and the owner Mick.

We have some great deals on these kits which now can be picked up in any formation for only £600 delivered if you message me directly. Thats a saving of over £120 on the website price.

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/single-mass-flywheel-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370440.htm

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/stage-3-kit-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370436.htm

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/slave-cylinder-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370442.htm

[Andy@CG-Motorsport]

Hi Guys,

We currently have a customer of ours trying to drag our name and products through the mud and I would like to set the record straight on the forum.

The Single Mass Flywheel kits we sell are all sold with the information that.... 'Whilst these kits are advertised as Silent, there are secondary factors that can affect the noises transmitted through this kit. These noises are completely normal and do not affect the running or longevity of the clutch, flywheel or any other part on the vehicle. Most of these noises are covered up by the dual mass flywheel and are extremely difficult to hide when running a single mass. However, these kits transmit much less noise than any other kit on the market and in 90% of cases ARE silent.'

As a company we pride our selves on customer service which I am sure the majority of the forum will agree with. We listen to feedback and amend issues as soon as possible.

We will not however be bullied or have our reputation threatened if someone does not like the feel of the products we supply. We will always try to help customers out, advise them on possible changes to their driving style and help them get the best out of our products and most importantly their car.

To that end if you are going to read the drivel posted by Billy2981 about our kits please take the time to read his earlier posts before he decided he wanted to change the kit. He is now demanding a full refund, which we are not prepared to give as there is no mechanical issue with the kit. The issue is preference, you can not return a respray once its been done if you go off the colour... the same principle is in effect here.

We do feel our reputation has been held hostage here, so please if you are one of our customers and have one of our kits please give some feedback below. Please especially post if it is to do with our customer care or service as this is what is most important to myself, Linda and the owner Mick.

We have some great deals on these kits which now can be picked up in any formation for only £600 delivered if you message me directly. Thats a saving of over £120 on the website price.

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/single-mass-flywheel-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370440.htm

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/stage-3-kit-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370436.htm

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/slave-cylinder-for-skoda-fabia-19-tdi-130--and--150--codes-asz--arl_p23370442.htm

[billy2981]

Yup its me,

 

now please understand the above posts were posted when I had nothing other than a totally worn out std clutch to compare it with, and well before I had mechanics and a tuner saying there is something wrong.

 

Andy, I gave you my honest and total description, I asked! not demanded a refund and also asked for contact details of the 100s of customers you say you have so I could get in touch and see their cars to see if it was just my kit that was not right!  I tried to be reasonable and your "good will gesture" of taking the kit back and rebuilding it for me to sell on was as I said not good enough as I morally couldn't sell the kit on when IMO it is not right. 

 

I also gave you the opportunity to test the car and drive it in its current state, then reinstall your setup and test again so you could see just how much the car changes and how the drive is nothing like std or as much go in the car, also the noises it makes while both driving and idle, the sounds coming from it are not subtle! 

 

you then try blaming the 3rd party for fitting, I am very picky on who works on my car and I trust them whole heartedly and as I said via PM, I was stood next to them at all times. 

 

I am not holding you hostage, I feel its my duty to inform members of my experience and thoughts on your clutch kit.

 

As said, I was hoping you would be a little more helpful in sorting this, either allowing me to show you how it is on my car, or by refunding me.

 

You failed to help in pointing me in the direction of other members who had the kits installed for me to compare with, you also didn't want to know when I suggested coming up to have the kit put back on so as to show you. 

 

all together I get the feeling that you don't care once you have the money.

 

this is a vid I sent you shortly after the kit was fitted,  this sound got worse and worse, I apologise its not the best but it also sounds a lot worse in the flesh.

 

http://youtu.be/DggYEN3aMdA

 

 

My intention was to simply remove the kit and sell on to recoup some funds, and as shown in the 2 thumbnails I was happy apart from the noise, once the std DMF and clutch was installed, the member who helped me fit it said that the CG Motorsport clutch was buggered and that I couldn't sell it on as it was seriously badly worn, also soon as I started the car and drove it off the ramp I realised that the CG clutch was actually total rubbish in comparison as the car was not only totally quiet again but also the bite was smooth and solid and the acceleration was greatly improved, also idle was smoother with no chugging and revs were smooth too. 

 

If I had expected the clutch to of been unsellable I would of taken more vids and sound clips, specially of the drone / grinding noises while on the move, both accelerating and overrun, but I was happy at the time just to remove and sell on.

 

 

Make of this what you will fellow members, I resigned myself to loosing the money ages ago and I hope that none of you get stung like I have.

 

make up your own minds though.

 

all Ill say is good luck to CG motorsport, and I really do hope that it was just a dodgy kit I got.

 

[billy2981]

I would also like to add,

 

there is a loose spring in the drive plate

the SMF is substantially heavier than the DMF Sachs one Ive refitted.  when I say substantially, I mean its a big enough difference you can tell by simply picking them up.  this doesn't shout performance to me or am I missing something. This is what I put the chugging and lack of go in the car down to, the fact the car needs to shift a heavier flywheel?

 

the second thumbnail is advice I was given by CG motorsport over the phone too.

 

Compare:

 

Now:

 

http://youtu.be/j_ngL49fr6c

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j_ngL49fr6c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Then:

 

http://youtu.be/DggYEN3aMdA

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DggYEN3aMdA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Both are taken with the same camera phone, and both in the same location on my drive, only differences are the time of day.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

As I understand it, a SMF makes more noise because it is lighter but by being lighter it increases performance, less weight to spin. You cant have both, you cant have a "silent" SMF that is also increasing performance. This is why I've never understood these "silent" SMF, if you want the performance just buy the light SMF and enjoy the extra performance and accept the noise. On the flip side if you want a nice smooth quiet drive then you're best sticking with a DMF. Whats the point in buying a really heavy SMF that will not increase performance (if anything it'll lose some if it's heavier than a DMF) and make extra noise? A good, new DMF will cope with even low 200sbhp if you dont drive it like a total tool. If you want ultimate performance just go for the light one. 

 

As far as the argument goes, that video sounds like a normal SMF, same kinda noise as my mates one makes with a Jabba flywheel in it. I wouldnt say it's broken but I certainly wouldnt be saying its silent when trying to sell it either! That said, the Jabba flywheel my mate has is about as loud but is also a fair bit lighter than a DMF so if that ones is heavier and that noisy then maybe something isnt right. 

[allytech]

We've fitted pretty much every brand of smf over the years and they all pretty much make the same noise! That's because the noise comes from the gearbox and more noticeably on the 6spd multi shaft boxes, the dmf dampens this noise using a viscous fluid so a huge piece of metal will not and can never do the same job as that.

[billy2981]

I purchased this as they recommended it as I stated I want something with everyday drivability and feel and that will cope with the power.

I know it would chatter slightly on tickover but not anywhere near as bad as it does, nor did I expect the noises while driving or tge loss in performance.

Its a little bad when you start getting looks while in traffic and crawling along and driving thru town. Also variouse different mechs saying its not sounding right?

the noise in the vid is nothing like real life and over time its got worse hence swapping it.

Oh well live an learn I spose.

If they had that much confidence in their kits they wouldnt of needed to attack me like this by posting in such a manner?

This just confirms my thoughts that they are worried that this one little bad review of my experience with them is actually something to worry abourlt due to underlying trouble?

Not sure but I am sure we shall find out next week when they are back in work.

[billy2981]

someone must have their kits, I still would like to come see your cars and see what they are like too.  One of the 100 or so customers must be on here somewhere?

[felicia16v]

Eh I am really struggling to see how a clutch is going to make a noise when it's driving along as it is locked up as one unit once your foot is off the pedal.

having lots of experiance with competition cars , uprated clutches are not designed to be like a std unit so have no frills and different biting points etc

if there is a grinding noise when going along it could have been the metal spacer plate catching on the rear of the flywheel I guess but that would be down to fitting really.

[billy2981]

its hard to explain the sounds that were coming from it mate but they never wanted to know when I suggested to come up with the car and test as is then refit their kit so as to prove the sounds and performance.

 

all this came about when I was told its not right when it was removed, there was no evidence of anything catching, all I know is it was slow and noisy when fitted,  it would be nice for the said person to comment but I understand why not.

 

I am thinking the sounds might of been from the loose spring?  tbh again I was totally unaware of this fault till it was pointed out to me by the member who helped. 

 

again I must stress, I was content to sell it on once it was removed, but due to certain things being pointed out to me, and the fact that the std clutch performed much much better from the off, I decided to bring it all to CG Motorsport's attention and I asked to be refunded due to these problems if I posted it back to them.  all they said they would do was rebuild it so it was like new for me to sell on after, I said thanks but I couldn't sell it on due to the way it was on my car, made lots of embarrassing noises while driving and idle and made the car feel flat and no power, this coupled with the fact it was well worn after only a few months of easy use meant my experience with this kit was not good and I couldn't sell on due to this. 

 

I understand that the clutch wont make the noise but I was sold this kit with the knowledge that there would only be a slight bit more noise, and the noise wouldn't be there when driving or some revs were applied?  the only time the car was "silent" was when the pedal was depressed. My Octavia vRS had a SMF kit on it and literally the only time it slightly chattered was on tick over and even then it was not really noticeable. I expected this to be the same.  Also I got this kit as it was supposed to be a performance boost and compliment the map on the car but it didn't, it made the car flat and feel like there was no power in it, I even asked the mapper to remove the map and go back to std due to this as I thought it was the map. Now having the std setup back on and keeping the map I can safely say that the Shark st1 remap is awesome. car really does drive well now.

 

 

edited, I meant SAID person not sad. Sorry

[felicia16v]

What material is the drive plate? as the rally sintered type look worn out from new to be fair, but I can see them not wanting to refit the clutch to try it really I found cg helpful when trying to get a drive plate made up for my rally car and we also had an organic kit for the 1.4 but again had no experiance with backup etc.

sometimes springs are loose fitting in the drive plate from new as they take up slack at different rates etc but they have offered to rebuild it to as new so you can sell it on (I may be interested if it is for the fabia vrs too)

its hard to explain the sounds that were coming from it mate but they never wanted to know when I suggested to come up with the car and test as is then refit their kit so as to prove the sounds and performance.

 

all this came about when I was told its not right when it was removed, there was no evidence of anything catching, all I know is it was slow and noisy when fitted,  it would be nice for the said person to comment but I understand why not.

 

I am thinking the sounds might of been from the loose spring?  tbh again I was totally unaware of this fault till it was pointed out to me by the member who helped. 

 

again I must stress, I was content to sell it on once it was removed, but due to certain things being pointed out to me, and the fact that the std clutch performed much much better from the off, I decided to bring it all to CG Motorsport's attention and I asked to be refunded due to these problems if I posted it back to them.  all they said they would do was rebuild it so it was like new for me to sell on after, I said thanks but I couldn't sell it on due to the way it was on my car, made lots of embarrassing noises while driving and idle and made the car feel flat and no power, this coupled with the fact it was well worn after only a few months of easy use meant my experience with this kit was not good and I couldn't sell on due to this. 

 

I understand that the clutch wont make the noise but I was sold this kit with the knowledge that there would only be a slight bit more noise, and the noise wouldn't be there when driving or some revs were applied?  the only time the car was "silent" was when the pedal was depressed. My Octavia vRS had a SMF kit on it and literally the only time it slightly chattered was on tick over and even then it was not really noticeable. I expected this to be the same.  Also I got this kit as it was supposed to be a performance boost and compliment the map on the car but it didn't, it made the car flat and feel like there was no power in it, I even asked the mapper to remove the map and go back to std due to this as I thought it was the map. Now having the std setup back on and keeping the map I can safely say that the Shark st1 remap is awesome. car really does drive well now.

 

 

edited, I meant SAID person not sad. Sorry

 

[Guest BigJase88]

Smf's chatter from idle to about 1500rpm then settle down and become silent

The heavier the smf the less noise it emits!

So basically if you want out and out performance then you want the lightest noisiest smf you can find

[billy2981]

It was noisy all the time. Even when driving down the road at over 2k rpm

When you accelerated at 2k up to overtake the car made a grinding droning sound.

It was wierdand took awhile to go too but now with stdstuff on Iits perfect and accelerates better.

I dont want it rebuilt to sell as I said earlier. It was crapon my car and no good so I dont want to have to sell Iit on so someone else has to put up with the loss in performance and the horrid noises to boot.

The car felt worse than the std mapped car, slower and less responsive. As I said now its spot on and I like it. Also getting over 8mpg more out of it. Managed over 70 the other week on a run that I never got before.

Its only one spring thats loose?

[billy2981]

Smf's chatter from idle to about 1500rpm then settle down and become silent

The heavier the smf the less noise it emits!

So basically if you want out and out performance then you want the lightest noisiest smf you can find

My point is why sell me something that makes the car noisier than std. A lot noisier

Sluggish compared to a total std car and less responsive? Even with the remap on the car felt flatter than when totally std.

Also worse mpg?

There is no point to it really is there?

Not when a std dmf outperforms it and is silent

Wierd really

[Guest BigJase88]

A proper working smf and clutch kicks the arse out of a standard setup!

Pick up is improved due to less transmission loses as flywheel is lightened

[tommccabevRS]

My point is why sell me something that makes the car noisier than std. A lot noisier

Sluggish compared to a total std car and less responsive? Even with the remap on the car felt flatter than when totally std.

Also worse mpg?

There is no point to it really is there?

Not when a std dmf outperforms it and is silent

Wierd really

at the end of the day pal you've obviously read up that SMF's make a lot of noise compared to a DMF setup, so why the hell have you gone and bought one? Not being funny but they've offered to rebuild it for you so it's basically new which you could then sell on and make some money back off it and you have said no to that? Your making yourself look like an idiot I'm sorry to say.

[billy2981]

lol

 

have you not read the above?

 

it made the car slower and flat.

 

yes Ive read up on these and previous experience of SMF they are not excessively noisy like this one made the car, also the car drove worse than it does now with the DM and std kit on. explain that?

 

read the above, then comment, I asked if it could just be the wrong kit and I asked for help on this forum and from them in putting me in touch with other members so I could compare them.  they were not helpful there nor were anyone else on this forum.  I was keeping it all via PM till I found this thread which I don't appreciate. I don't think I am making myself look stupid, why would I have the kit rebuilt to sell on so some other member gets a kit that makes their car flat as a fart and sound worse than a lorry?  I don't sell things I wouldn't be happy fitting to my own car and this was not right.

 

Do you have one Tom?

 

next time I am visiting family Ill come and look at yours to compare? which is what I wanted to do but again NO HELP from anyone.

[tommccabevRS]

lol

have you not read the above?

it made the car slower and flat.

yes Ive read up on these and previous experience of SMF they are not excessively noisy like this one made the car, also the car drove worse than it does now with the DM and std kit on. explain that?

read the above, then comment, I asked if it could just be the wrong kit and I asked for help on this forum and from them in putting me in touch with other members so I could compare them. they were not helpful there nor were anyone else on this forum. I was keeping it all via PM till I found this thread which I don't appreciate. I don't think I am making myself look stupid, why would I have the kit rebuilt to sell on so some other member gets a kit that makes their car flat as a fart and sound worse than a lorry? I don't sell things I wouldn't be happy fitting to my own car and this was not right.

Do you have one Tom?

next time I am visiting family Ill come and look at yours to compare? which is what I wanted to do but again NO HELP from anyone.

yeh I've read the above and your saying you wanted a silent SMF kit and there is no such thing on a diesel. As soon as I can get one in you can come to my house and I'll happily take you out, until then it obviously looks as if you've got a faulty clutch out of the batch which is why they've offered to repair it to a basically new standard. No one else has had this problem with the clutch all I've read is good comments about them so it is quite obvious yours is a dodgy one. If your not willing to send it back to them to be fixed then why are you still arguing about it? Obviously a good service if they are offering to fix it. Now get off your high horse and stick to your standard setup if it's much better and stop complaining.

[billy2981]

Lol

When im home ill colate all the above for you.

I never asked for a silent kit. Read above again please. You dont work for them do you? Lol

I asked them of the posibility it just beimg a bad kit. Also I asked on here for people who had one so I can come see for sure.

I didnt start posting in public.

Unlike you I cant sell something on in the off chance the rebuild sorted it out. And unless they sent back a lighter flywheel it would still be flat and sap the cars performance.

Stop getting hung up on the noise like they did. The noise is just the reason I wanted it off and was prepared to sell on whithout them being involved. Only after removing with things pointed out to me as being wrong coupled with comparing the performances with the new kit did I let them know that I found their kit not right.

I do hope you get a good one from them. But in the off chance, good luck.

As said above again go with them. Its your choice. The reason I used them too was they were polite and friendly and had good reviews. Unfortunatly my experience wasnt quite as good once problems arose.

No high horse here bud lol your calling me stupid I have simply tried to explain how it was on my car. Prob not well enough.

[DanHam]

Thanks for the PM billy! Don't suppose you have any videos of the setup do you? Could possibly explain to a few members the faults you were having that way.

[billy2981]

Sorry mate

But as said the one I took was early on just to clarrify with them it was normal.

Hence why till things were pointed out and the comparrison between that kit and this I decided to persue other avenues than just selling on.

Ill get a short vid of the kit off and the springs. If ide known it wasnt right to drive with id not of removed it and ide of gone up to them.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing lol

[felicia16v]

But you can't expect a company to just give you a list of names of customers who have bought off them. I for one wouldn't be happy if they did that mate as far as I can see you bought a smf and then didn't like the noise that you were aware it may make, then won't send it back so they can take a look at it ....

[billy2981]

Right,

 

Putting this in order from start.  

 

Dec 2011 I bought the car as totally std. Car had covered 73k and was all original. 

Car was good, noticed over time there was some slight knocking from the std DMF but nothing bad, just me picking. I knew Ide need one at some point.

 

car stayed std till early on in 2013 where the opportunity to have the car remapped came up.  Car was pushing 100k at this point. Soon as I had the map on there it was apparent that I needed a new clutch as any attempt to put foot and it would slip so I changed the way I drove so as to prolong the life of the clutch.

It was soon coming to light that it was really time to bite the bullet and sauce a new clutch as it was getting really bad and when the wife was driving it it didn't fill her with confidence.

 

I searched and at the time everyone on her was saying std wont do, anyone that said that was getting slated and I had heard good things of CG motorsport so contacted them. PM's and a long phone call I took their advice that a std setup would be no good for a simple stage 1 remapped car so I went with their new Dual Friction and SMF kit.

 

Armed with the "knowledge" that CG knew what they were on about and that the kit would be pretty much as std just more clamping power to cope with the extra few bhp and lbft.

 

I couldn't wait to get it on the car.

 

Postage was pretty swift and I had the kit fitted at my local trusted indy.

 

From their on it started to go really wrong!

 

I cant remember the exact date I had the clutch fitted but soon as it went on the car it was not what I expected. BUT I have never had a new clutch fitted before and Ive read that they need time and gentle use to bed in, I thought the really bad judder and noise was just part of it. 

I left the garage and did over 200 mile round Cardiff centre that same day to try bed the clutch in, I then did similar miles the day after. on my return home the noise was there still and so too was the bad judder on pull away so I made the vid at the top and pm'd them reference this.

 

I got the pm back and called them where we had a lengthy conversation and I was fed a load of info that the noises were normal and nothing to worry about, and to adjust my driving style and give it more rpm to set off.  I did say to them that I was concerned about the noise at the time as it was a lot more than I was lead to believe there would be, and I said my previous experiences with SMF were just as they described they would be, which was "silent" with the possibility of some slight noise which this wasn't.  anyway I believed them and got over the sounds as I was told it was normal, after all the car was ok and only used to go to and from work along the M4 and back.  The above thumbnail of me giving advice to a fellow member is as a result of this call.

 

After a while then the judder went in forward motion and then only was slight when in reverse. I put this down to not reversing as much as going forward, however the noise got worse and this grinding droning came to my attention and got worse and worse. I was getting funny looks in traffic and in town as well as a few mechanics pointing out that something is not right.  I was starting to worry that this was starting to damage the car as the sounds were getting worse and I noticed the drive wasn't as good as it was when the car was totally std. the acceleration and go in the car wasn't as responsive so I emailed the mapper to remove the map. A good conversation with him convinced me to keep the map on there.

 

I had also made up my mind that because the car wasn't as good as I thought it should be and I quite fancied a change, I would return the car to std and sell on.  I knew that with the car making such a racket I wouldn't be able to sell it, coupled with the thought that something could be going wrong. I was only thinking that by putting a std clutch and DMF back on the car, it would only remove the noise, not make the car respond so much faster and drive soo much nicer.

 

TO REITTERATE: I had no intention to involve CG Motorsport at this time. Yes the ONLY reason I removed the clutch was for the sounds it made, as I was wanting to sell the car, then sell on all the mods(ie the clutch, hence the FS thread in CG posted thumbnail) This al seemed good to me as I was assured by them the sounds and the drive was all good and as it should be.

 

Again I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THE CAR WOOULD DRIVE SOOOOO MUCH BETTER ON A DMF AND STD CLUTCH!  the car is so much more responsive, from the first time I pulled away the bite was smooth and crisp unlike the CG kit.

 

After removing the CG clutch, I was informed I couldn't sell it on as it was badly worn, and a spring was loose and that the flywheels were different and the CG flywheel was heavier. 

 

this is when I decided I should inform CG motorsport and see what they say as I now have nothing to sell on to recoup some funds.

 

We then put the car back together and I crossed my fingers that we had cured the noises.  Relief as the start-up went perfect and the car fired up extremely fast which was a surprise, before it took a few turns.

the car was back to quiet again!

 

perfect I thought, till I drove out the garage, the bite was smooth and strong and the response of the car was totally different, the car drove like a totally different beast. 

 

This is when I decided I should inform CG of my findings and comparison as something was not right with their kit, I also asked if it was possible I was just sent the incorrect parts or if I had just had a dodgy kit and I was trying to find some other members with one fitted to compare them.  I later asked for their help in finding members as I had asked on here and had no help in the matter.

 

Here is the emails between us. only names have been removed.  please note the last email from them, once I read that I found this thread posted. Bit hypocritical imo.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

 

Billy2981

 

 

Hi andy,

well after the what feels like an age of really bad transition chatter that just seemed to get worse, I have finally called it a day and put a std Sachs DMF and clutch kit back on. The car now drives quietly again and also pulls harder and the pick up is faster too?

I ended up going over to **************************** and helped me swap them over, he noticed one of the springs in the clutch plate was loose? also that there is not much life left in it, also he pointed out that despite it being stood a few hrs while we prepped to remove, the clutch was still extremely hot, had to use rags to hold it, it was that hot. he asked if it was slipping, I didn't feel it slipping, all seemed fine bar the noises. I was hoping to sell the kit on but after the info I have had that is out of the question.

I also noted that the DMF was a lot lighter than the SMF your kit has in it?

 

must add the clutch has been fitted to the car a few months and only used to go from home to work, not tracked or launched. mostly motorway use? 

anyway here are some pics Ive taken of the kit.
 

Flywheel:  there is an excessive amount of powder in the centre?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clutch plate:  the paddle side seems ok but the plate side is extremely worn, and seems to have worn more in certain areas? its one of the purple springs that is loose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope you can see the different colours in the plate? this is where it seems to be unevenly worn.

 

 

 

 

 

Cover Plate:

 

 

 

 

the new LUK bearing was used that came with the kit too. 

 

This is not what I expected form a performance clutch and the noise it made was totally unbearable.  something needs to be done as I cant recommend these.  Not worth the £*** I paid for it really. 

Ive now paid out for 2 clutches and 2 lots of fitting which is rather a lot.

 

cheers

 

Billy

 

 

 

 

Andy@CG-Motorsport

•  

Sent 12 September 2013 - 13:40

Hi Billy,

Sorry for the delay in responding to this we have been working with some foreign customers and I havent had chance to check my mail.

 

Firstly, replacing a dual mass flywheel with a one piece solid flywheel will not create any harmonic noises it is a solid piece of billet and cannot rattle. Because of this the main shaft is not supported with a pilot bearing ( this is in the flywheel ) this allows the main shaft to move and any vibrations or harmonic transmitted noises are sent down the solid flywheel - this gives the rattle effect on tick over. Now because the dual mass has effectively a primary flywheel and a secondary flywheel built together this tends to mask the harmonic noise created from the solid conversion. Although this will not affect the performance of the flywheel it can be annoying to some drivers it actually delivers the natural noise of the engine which the quieter DMF takes away.

 

I understand the clutch did not slip and was very hot when you removed it from the gearbox ,this is quite normal as the heat transferred from the segments do hold and retain heat very well.

 

You will inevitably create dust inside the bell housing, as the clutch wears it will draw any other grease or debris left over into the clutch flywheel area.

 

I hope all of this makes sense and I can clarify further any of this if you need me to.

 

So as a valid customer what we propose to do for you is send us all the parts pack we will re machine the pressure plate ,re-line the drive plate and re surface the flywheel for free.

 

This will then become as new and have a very good retail value of around what you paid.

 

I hope this gesture will be of satisfaction as I do not think a Single Mass Conversion is for you based on your need for a quieter daily drive as oppose to the more performance orientated SMF set up.

 

Thanks

Mick Deakin

Technical Director

0113 2426359

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 22 September 2013 - 10:38

Morning Mick,

 

Sorry for the delay in replying, Ive been flat out at work and tried to think about this as well as seeing what the std clutch is like.

 

I know that SMF will chatter more but never expected the horrendous noise this one causes.  Also I was lead to believe they only chater on tickover?

 

this one was noisy all the time, only time it was silent was when the clutch pedal was pressed.  While driving it sounded like the gearbox was grinding.

 

Also the engine was feeling dead and didnt rev well, this kit was better than the old std clutch but compared to the new std kit Ive now got on it felt rubbish.  I actually thought it was the map on the car that was poor as if felt low on power, Ive still got the map on and with this std DMF kit on the car it feels outstanding and revs a lot faster.

 

Due to my experience with this I couldn't recommend it let alone sell it on, specially now I know what a good std cluch should be like. I would much rather send it back for a refund and forget I ever had it. least then Ive only lost out on postage and fitting rather than the clutch kit, fitting and post.

 

I am going to see if I can go see another member who has the same kit on his car and see if I just got a dodgy kit?  I am wondering if the noise while driving is to do with the loose spring?

 

Also I don't understand how it can be so worn when its only been on the car a few months and driven mostly on the motorway and never tracked or launched or any kind of hard driving. I am bewildered. I do hope its just down to being a dodgy kit. 

 

I am up Huddersfield way this Monday and Tuesday so will bring it up, I can drop it in to you while there if you like? 

 

Many thanks

 

Martin

 

 

 

Andy@CG-Motorsport

•  

Sent 24 September 2013 - 13:33

Hi Billy,

 

We have to date installed over 60 of these kits ourselves and sold over 100 more globally, our feedback and proven results show us we haven't any tech issues with the kits and to that end we can not offer any refunds on this products.

 

It is not unheard of that these solid mass flywheels can increase the natural harmonic noise of the cabin and this effect can be worse in some vehicles than others due to a list of factors including the age and mechanical state of the vehicle.

 

I am glad you like your new set up but fear the std clutch will struggle to hold any increase HP after a short period of driving due to the clamp forces needed to transmit such torque. Our offer of sending the parts back for re-machining will still stand as a gesture of good will but there is nothing we can offer you in terms of a refund as the part has been fitted and has no mechanical faults in it, other than your own personal evaluation of comfort levels.

 

The wear you saw on our clutch will be amplified even more in a standard set up and as our duty of care we would strongly advise that you return to a stronger clutch set up as soon as possible to avoid any long term damage to your transmission as a result of running increased torque figures on a new stock clutch unit.

 

Thanks

Mick

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 30 September 2013 - 21:32

Evening Mick,

 

Unfortunately I cant see us coming to an agreement on this matter over email. 

 

I propose that on my next mid week rest days in November I come up to you to have the kit refitted to my car so you can feel and hear for your self just what I mean.

 

I am not one for complaining but this is a lot of money for a kit I am not happy with.  not only in the sound it makes but also the way the car drives.

 

Its not only my personal opinion but I have also been to 3 different garages for different things and all the mechanics have commented on how bad the car sounds.

 

I have been on Briskoda and other forums for a good few years now and I would say I am fairly well known and respected and I just couldn't possibly sell on this clutch kit knowing the trouble I have experienced myself.

 

I do feel this issue needs resolving face to face and I would appreciate it if we could organise a date for me to come up and sort it.

 

thanks

Billy

 

 

Andy@CG-Motorsport

•  

Sent 01 October 2013 - 11:25

Hi Billy, your welcome to come and see us anytime about the issue but as these clutches do cause natural harmonic noises to come through the car my feeling is that you will still not like the flywheel noises even when we fit it.

 

 

The noises are perfectly natural but some people are more annoyed by them than others. So I dont think a refit would solve your issue. Would it be easier for you to give me a call and we can discuss this and try to resolve it?

 

Thanks

Mick

0113 2426359

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 06 October 2013 - 10:20

Mick
 
you seem to have miss understood me, I want to come up for you to fit the kit back on my car to show you how bad the kit performs and that this is not a subtle noise change as I was lead to believe when this kit was sold to me. I don't know of anyone who wants to drive a car that sounds like a tractor when the car is in neutral and sounds like its grinding when driving, there are a lot of guys I know that don't just modify their cars specifically for track days etc it is a personal choice for pure performance enhancement. 
 
I have no intention of having such a poor quality item on my car.  I am only doing it to prove to you I have a just reason for a complete refund. 
 
You state you have sold countless numbers of these clutches, could you send me contact details (email addresses) for some of your customers please as Id like to hear first hand some impartial feedback.
 
Please understand its not only the sound! its the way the car drives.  it makes the car feel flat and no where near as much power as with the std kit. The whole reason I bought this kit was I was lead to believe this would compliment the remap which I had done to the car. The in gear acceleration is not as fast and it feels like there is less torque with your kit on there either its weight is causing this or like ********* said its slipping. I couldn't say for sure it was slipping as it felt fine to me prior to putting the new std kit back on and realising that it was not right with your items fitted.
 
Not only that but there is a loose spring on the clutch plate which I am also informed is not right?
 
All of these things add up to a poor product and I will not accept anything other than a full refund.
 
A rebuild of the kit is no use to me as I wont risk using it again nor will I potentially ruin my reputation on this site and others by selling it on.

       

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 08 October 2013 - 18:33

Evening,

 

I am not going anywhere and I am still awaiting your reply?

 

I know this email was read yesterday, 7th at 0937.

 

Due to me being stuck at work last week I was only able to read messages.

 

 

Awaiting your reply.

 

Andy@CG-Motorsport

•  

Sent 09 October 2013 - 10:33

Hi there, There is only me (Andy) who reads the forums and I pass the messages onto Michael (CG Owner) who then gives me a reply to post back, that is why messages aren't replied to instantly. We have installed over 100 of these kits and have never had a warranty issue - most of which have come from this forum so a thread regarding our quality and service should gather you some quick replies on that front. The flywheels are solid mass and the noise is a natural consequence of the shift away from Dual Mass. Potentially there maybe a fitting issue involved and we can not speak on behalf of third parties who may have installed our product. We also can not accept liability if you do not like this performance product, this is your perception and we can not be made liable thereof. You can not return a desert in a restaurant if you do not like the flavour...We are happy to discuss any feelings you may have about this kit but on inspection of the imagery provided there is no mechanical fault with the clutch or flywheel and that is where our obligations and warranty lies. Your complaint is based on your perception of the kit not its ability to do the function purchased for. Because of this we are not able to offer you any refund on this product and suggest you explore avenues to sell the parts on if you are looking to re-coup your money. Thanks Andy

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 09 October 2013 - 11:16

Thanks for the reply Andy,

 

it is rather strange that the car is a heap of junk, drives and sounds crap with your SMF and clutch kit on then a few hrs later once the New std kit is installed the car is like a totally different vehicle?

silent and drives 100x better and smoother, idle is silent and smooth.

 

I still would like email addresses of these said customers please, when I posted for info on peoples experiences I only had a pm from another member saying they had the same problems and they were going to get in touch with you, I have since heard nothing from them. 

 

The rest were people saying a refund should be had and others asking about your kits which Ive said what I think to 2 of them. and have had a thank you msg back. 

 

as Ive said its not just my perception of the kit, its also 3 other mechanics in different locations, an ex F1 racing car and Jaguar car designer and ********************, all cannot be incorrect? It was ****** who said that the clutch is useless and I cannot sell it on in its current state which I was going to do as soon as it was removed.

 

all stated there is something not right but its ******** that has seen and heard the car with and without your clutch kit installed and seen the clutch when it was removed.

 

I have given you ample opportunity to refund me and call it a day which is all I wanted, no hassle no fuss and no name dropping.

 

I have said I cant sell this kit on and lumber another forum member with it as it was never right while on my car and when removed to find parts heavier than the std parts they replaced doesn't strike me as performance parts.

 

You may not be bothered once you have the customers money but I don't want to see anyone else have to go through the same as I have, its easy to try blame a third party for not installing the kit correctly, I was there watching the install and it was all installed correctly and torqued up correctly, the garage I take my car to is the only one I trust to work on it for things I cant do myself.  The good thing about them is I can stand and watch everything as they have nothing to hide. 

 

Forgive me for being shirty but I am rather upset at the fact I have spent over £*** on the kit and fitting to have to remove it a few months later due to appalling performance and noise levels.

 

I hope you can see where I am coming from?

 

Billy

 

 

Andy@CG-Motorsport

•  

Sent 11 October 2013 - 09:54

Hi there, we have answered this query and stated our position on this matter. We will not be entering into any further correspondence at this time on the issue and we will respond swiftly if any of the facts of this case are misrepresented in a public arena. We respect your opinion but we will not be held hostage to it. Thanks Andy

 

billy2981

•  

Sent 11 October 2013 - 12:09

thanks for posting in the forum, you've saved me doing one myself.

 

replied to also.

 

many thanks

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

 

 

Now you have everything.  I offered to come up but didn't get the mail back till I was on my way back down home. 

 

Again I must stress that I had no intention of involving them till I found out the kit was not usable again and that it performed worse than a std setup.  This is not just my perception. 

 

Its all out there now, make of it what you will. 

 

Just a warning though, do your research.  and don't believe what a salesman tells you! 

 

Summary of findings:

Car less responsive

lower MPG (I am now getting 6-8mpg more doing the same drive to and from work)

Excessive noise on tickover

Grinding/droning sounds while driving, accelerating and on overrun

Took ages (1400 mile+, 500 of which was done in town the first few days) to settle and stop juddering on getaway

Still juddered in reverse(more like and on off switch which is the characteristics of the Paddle clutch hence my choice of the Duel friction kit)

Flywheel heavier then DMF

faster than expected wear rate

Loose spring.

 

all this in the space of a few months.

 

 

One last thing for CG Motorsport, I hope you feel big and clever for starting this?  I have still not seen anyone come forward praising these kits which is the same as I found when I posted for help in finding some one else to compare with.  a few email addresses or forum member names would of been great to have or at least a sorry cant do that for X reason. 

 

OH well

Live and learn, good luck all in your search for a new clutch. Hope you are happier with your choice than I was.

 

[Andy@CG-Motorsport]

Our offer still stands to rebuild this kit. As far as we are concerned that is the end of the matter.

 

Thanks

Andy

[eric87]

Oh dear.