Does the new Seat Leon offer superior value for money now?

[Yeti_Man]

It's a screenshot from GTI, of course, nobody in UK has Leon ST yet. I think ETA for the first builds is January 2014.

ok, so you're saying its specifically only on the ST (estate) Leon?

[SBN]

There have been several comments relating to bland Seat interiors; I think that this is a little unfair - I was always under the impression that the VAG order of merit was: Audi, VW, Seat, Skoda and that the quality/styling of the interiors was commensurate to this. A little too much Skoda brand loyalty from some here perhaps???

I've got Skoda on order, owned a vw before. I've always thought, and everyone I've ever discussed this with, that the order of merit was widely accepted as Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat?

[Dr Zoidberg]

Nope. Audi and then VW is obvious but I'd have thought the public perception, pricing and marketing was that Seat was the more desirable sporty brand and Skoda was bottom of the heap.

In huge last couple of years, the latter two might have swapped over.

[v0n]

ok, so you're saying its specifically only on the ST (estate) Leon?

Since september 2013 Seat added option of DCC to all "FR" trims within Leon range - Leon, Leon SC and Leon ST. Prior to Frankfurt show the regular Leon hatch was half a generation behind, similar to Octavia, after Frankfurt it jumped to current tech en par with Golf range. In many places in Europe DCC appears in online configurator as optional extra under Dynamic Packet together with progressive steering, in some countries it is added to FR trim by default. Below screenshot from German Seat configurator.

[Yeti_Man]

Since september 2013 Seat added option of DCC to all "FR" trims within Leon range - Leon, Leon SC and Leon ST. Prior to Frankfurt show the regular Leon hatch was half a generation behind, similar to Octavia, after Frankfurt it jumped to current tech en par with Golf range. In many places in Europe DCC appears in online configurator as optional extra under Dynamic Packet together with progressive steering, in some countries it is added to FR trim by default. Below screenshot from German Seat configurator.

no doubt its available in other countries, I simply presumed that it was down to the country's own importer to decide what that market got (ie in your screen shot the front and rear sensors are optional on the FR trim, in the UK they are standard) and if Seat UK are anything like Skoda UK... Until I see a UK specific press release I'll only take something announced at an international motorshow as hearsay tbh.

The German configurator also only allows adding the DCC and progressive steering certain engines, the 1.4TSi not being one of them :(

[pipsyp]

Yep DCC might be available elsewhere but dont think its factory fit or optional on UK cars.

Not usually a big fan of Seats, usually find them a bit style over substance but have to say quite like the look of the ST; the FR 184 TDi also offers a interesting alternative to a Octavia vRS TDi hatch or wagon.

Also given its light weight I actually doubt an Octavia vRS TSi is a great deal quicker than a TSi 180 one of these; the Octy is after all quite heavy by comparison.

If and when Seat offer an ST Cupra I think that'd give the vRS some fairly stiff competition as its likely to be better to drive and considerably quicker; possibly a stride too far for most potential Octavia vRS drivers though being costly to run and not quite as practical.

[kenny]

I've got Skoda on order, owned a vw before. I've always thought, and everyone I've ever discussed this with, that the order of merit was widely accepted as Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat?

Brand wide I would put seat and skoda on a par, one sporty one more sensible.

As far as interiors, Seat bottom. That is until the new cars, not seen new Leon up close so can't comment

[v0n]

Until I see a UK specific press release I'll only take something announced at an international motorshow as hearsay tbh.

 

Yep DCC might be available elsewhere but dont think its factory fit or optional on UK cars.

I know what you're saying, we are so used to SUK screwing around specs that you just can't believe VAG car could reach UK shores without something chopped off the list. But the DCC option is specifically pimped on UK Seat site. At seat.co.uk in Leon ST performance section. I don't know what else they could do, short of writing to all of us personally.

Also, I don't think there is such thing as per country importers on mainland continent, at least not the way our "Skoda UK" entity is allowed to operate, decide what to sell and dictate terms of that sale. I think RHD countries are exception in that regard.

 

 

 

The German configurator also only allows adding the DCC and progressive steering certain engines, the 1.4TSi not being one of them :(

I think most countries on mainland continent do not take 1.4TSi as seriously and expect it to be as popular as we do in UK. It's a main engine for UK VW and Skoda petrol models, but elsewhere it doesn't make that much sense to pick it over 1.8. It's a Polo/Fabia engine that's added to Golf/Leon/Octavia range mainly to lower average emissions across model range. But it doesn't really target any European buyer sector. Fleet/business/high mileage buyer would get one of the diesel engines, in most countries diesel fuel is cheaper that petrol, so returns that take years in UK to recoup are almost immediate in most places in Europe.

Petrol/performance buyer would get 1.8 or 2.0, since combined economy difference between 1.4 and 1.8 is only about 0.4/0.5L per 100km, whereas response and characteristics are better and engine is more relaxed/easier to mod out of the box. 1.4TSI range also had some trouble in previous generations and revisions to this generation were more "budget" skewed - the 1.4 engine is now belt driven, rather than chain driven like the revised 1.8 and 2.0, so that's an immediate non-starter for many owners and petrol heads. EA888 III 1.8 and 2.0 units are more bulletproof, lighter than they ever were, turbo is lighter, port injectors for less soot and coking, etc etc. The engine gets most RND, it's highly flexible and adaptable, and none of the VAG manufacturers would let that engine to go onto the market in mini cab spec - it always gets proper rear suspension and tech (like the DCC).

Sure, in UK 1.4 will be popular, because it's good, quiet and cheaper to buy alternative to diesel version. But if we had no odd emission rating and could choose 1.4 next to 1.8 I'm willing to bet most people would sacrifice small margin of economy and get 1.8 because it is the best engine in the range, just like the rest of Europe?

Edited 27 October, 2013 by v0n

[Yeti_Man]

I've been told two different things by two dealers today regarding DCC. One said 'yes its standard on FR trim cars' after initially saying he didn't think it was but then spoke to his manager... The second one said its a mistake and isn't included! So just the same Skoda dealers lol

I'll be ringing Seat uk in the next day or so to confirm hopefully.

On another note, ljwah above mentioned car4broker above. According to their website they are offering 23.9% off the Leon FR ST currently. Nice.

[Ultima]

Yep DCC might be available elsewhere but dont think its factory fit or optional on UK cars.

Not usually a big fan of Seats, usually find them a bit style over substance but have to say quite like the look of the ST; the FR 184 TDi also offers a interesting alternative to a Octavia vRS TDi hatch or wagon.

Also given its light weight I actually doubt an Octavia vRS TSi is a great deal quicker than a TSi 180 one of these; the Octy is after all quite heavy by comparison.

If and when Seat offer an ST Cupra I think that'd give the vRS some fairly stiff competition as its likely to be better to drive and considerably quicker; possibly a stride too far for most potential Octavia vRS drivers though being costly to run and not quite as practical.

 

The Octy vRS TSI is actually lighter than the Leon ST TSI 180 and a second quicker to 60.  The Leon TSI 180 hatch is lighter the vRS TSI but is still 0.7 second slower than the vRS.

Edited 27 October, 2013 by Ultima

[jlwah]

On another note, jlwah above mentioned car4broker above. According to their website they are offering 23.9% off the Leon FR ST currently. Nice.

 

Yes, their discounts seem to be the best at present. They don't use Seat finance at 4.9% but even at the 6.9% they're doing, the level of discount makes them hard to ignore.

 

Only concern I have at present is that I can't find anyone that's used them to offer feedback.

 

I'm quite close to ordering an FR through them, but thought I'd give my local Seat dealer a chance. Needless to say, I've not heard a thing, not a dickybird!!

[Yeti_Man]

Yes, their discounts seem to be the best at present. They don't use Seat finance at 4.9% but even at the 6.9% they're doing, the level of discount makes them hard to ignore.

 

Only concern I have at present is that I can't find anyone that's used them to offer feedback.

 

I'm quite close to ordering an FR through them, but thought I'd give my local Seat dealer a chance. Needless to say, I've not heard a thing, not a dickybird!!

Ok so two new bits of now confirmed information, just to update the thread a little...

 

• Car4broker can achieve over 20% discount as they buy through fleet channels from Seat UK - you are the first named keeper BUT the address for ownership of the vehicle is with them, you then have to go through the DVLA to do an address change after two months. Apparently this is all fully legal and imposes no issues with insurance etc (I specifically asked this). Whilst they did their best to explain it simply and put my mind at rest, im not entirely happy with that setup myself.

 

• Seat UK have just rang back and confirmed the following to me: There will be a dynamic pack available for the Leon ST from January onwards (so from launch effectively). The pack price is unknown but will include both Adaptive Chassis Control (DCC) AND progresive steering (which I believe the VRS gets as standard?) so the same as the German optional equipment setup by the sound of things. No price was available for the option pack. I queried putting in the order now and having it added to build asap in January and she advised against it - which is fair enough and understandable.

[Dr Zoidberg]

 

Ok so two new bits of now confirmed information, just to update the thread a little...

 

• Car4broker can achieve over 20% discount as they buy through fleet channels from Seat UK - you are the first named keeper BUT the address for ownership of the vehicle is with them, you then have to go through the DVLA to do an address change after two months. Apparently this is all fully legal and imposes no issues with insurance etc (I specifically asked this). Whilst they did their best to explain it simply and put my mind at rest, im not entirely happy with that setup myself.

 

• Seat UK have just rang back and confirmed the following to me: There will be a dynamic pack available for the Leon ST from January onwards (so from launch effectively). The pack price is unknown but will include both Adaptive Chassis Control (DCC) AND progresive steering (which I believe the VRS gets as standard?) so the same as the German optional equipment setup by the sound of things. No price was available for the option pack. I queried putting in the order now and having it added to build asap in January and she advised against it - which is fair enough and understandable.

 

 

The dynamic chassis pack sounds good.

I'd run away from any broker that doesn't have you down as the registered keeper on the V5 from day one though.

[Yeti_Man]

The dynamic chassis pack sounds good.

I'd run away from any broker that doesn't have you down as the registered keeper on the V5 from day one though.

Thats where it doesnt appear as straight forward as apparently with car4broker you ARE the first registered keeper from day one but you have to use their address details and then change them after a couple of months. Sounds slightly suspect to me tbh but I can see why they are doing it.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Still sounds iffy. It's an offence to have incorrect keepers details on the v5.

[Yeti_Man]

Still sounds iffy. It's an offence to have incorrect keepers details on the v5.

Inc. address? He said (I think it was 'Dan') that its fully legal and people do address changes often with DVLA - my response was that, yes, but you are knowingly giving them the worng address at the time of purchase which cant be right. He was 100% confident in that it was fine and a fully legal way of doing it! I agree, it sounds iffy to me but over 20% discount on a new model isnt to be sniffed at tbh. Im just thinking through scenarios... car is broken into at my house. Insurance company want to know why it was at that address. Well, because its where I live....  so whats this address in the V5 then? No, doesnt make sense to me tbh!

[Dr Zoidberg]

The address doesn't necessarily need to be *your* home address, but it has to be one where the registered keeper can be contacted by the authorities if needed.

It would be fine to have it at a relatives house if they can be trusted to pass on any letters - people do this when moving round a lot for example. Having it at a business that you have no ongoing connection with is suspect. Easy way to confirm this - check with the DVLA.

[jlwah]

That's interesting, I emailed them the other day asking this question and never got a reply (another minus for them!).

 

Still if it's only for two months, its probably no big deal and the rate of discount is a major attraction.

 

The dynamic chassis pack sounds good and it'll be interesting to see how much it is.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I'm sure most people will have no problems with the wrong details on the paperwork - 2 months will pass and it's all done - but if you *do* get stopped by the police or get involved in an accident it could be expensive.

[Yeti_Man]

I'm sure most people will have no problems with the wrong details on the paperwork - 2 months will pass and it's all done - but if you *do* get stopped by the police or get involved in an accident it could be expensive.

Exactly my thinking/worries.

[jlwah]

I'm sure most people will have no problems with the wrong details on the paperwork - 2 months will pass and it's all done - but if you *do* get stopped by the police or get involved in an accident it could be expensive.

How exactly? Many people drive cars that don't have their details on the log book - company car drivers for example.

 

Obviously you have to inform your insurance company, but normally they just ask if you are the registered keeper.

 

I guess it comes down to whether the additional discount (£1.5K to £2K) is sufficiently attractive to overcome any worries about two months of having the incorrect address on the logbook. Simple cost / benefit ratio.

[Dr Zoidberg]

How exactly? Many people drive cars that don't have their details on the log book - company car drivers for example.

 

Yes, and you will be contactable through your employer.

[Yeti_Man]

Hmmm, its definately a bit of a grey area! Surely they would have to provide your details if the police contacted them....  but I dont like the uncertainty. :(

[v0n]

Simple things, like parking tickets, road tax reminders or congestion charge notices arriving at and going through third party office that you never been at or plan to visit, possibility of them getting delayed for weeks or worse yet, getting stuck on someone's desk and not being passed over to you at all then going into penalty mode or worse case scenario CCJ, all to your name. I would have to know company very well to agree to this. Secondly, what is the scheme. Are they pretending to provide HPA or PCP but instead add your name to their virtual fleet and then claim some sort of tax relief on your behalf or?

[sniperpenguin]

Meanwhile.... back on topic

I would look at it from the opposite viewpoint - I was literally about to order a white Leon (5dr hatch, not the ST) FR 184BHP and had gone through the entire procedure of haggling via a bunch of dealers, using DTD as a guidepoint and fighting with myself over what options I could justify.

 

I had pretty much specced her out with the tech pack (free), spare, 17" Rims above standard, convenience and winter packs. Using the (then) 4.9% APR and £1000 deposit contribution deals.

 

I literally just "checked out" the skoda dealership whilst bored on a sunday. What changed it was the 0% PCP deal, as all of a sudden the vRS was achievable in the monthly budget I had set, and the GMFV was very similar to the FR I had specced (within £200). In fact, it wouldve been even more competitive if I didnt have to replace the extras taken off (No cruise, seriously???? And you are telling me a flagship model gets a base stereo??? )

 

The interior of the Leon has improved *massively*.... Stick an FR next to an Golf SE (which I did ) and you will be suprised - Golf has more cubbys and an electric handbrake (not a fan), but they are scarily similar even for a platform shared car. Ride was very good too.

 

Being a nerd, it broke down for me in this list: (Leon FR 184 vs Octy vRS)

 

Octy

- Servicing thrown in for the three year term

- 18" Alloys as standard

- Acres more space (Leon doesnt have fold flat seats)

- ACC was an option then (oh the irony!)

 

FR

- Easier to park

- Nicer interior

- Rear AND Front parking assist as standard

- Better ride (probably due to the 17's)

- About 25-30 cheaper per month

- LED front lights

 

Ive not included looks, as they are subjective Insurance groups were the same, as were the MPG claims (same engines, obv)