VRS TDI estate vs BMW 320d touring

[kenny]

I wish we only saw snow once a year up here lol

[Deano's Dog]

To Summarise all of the posts it's down to what you want from a car

[Orville]

To Summarise all of the posts it's down to what you want from a car

Excluding the extreme weather arguments I would say that the BMW is the better built and dynamically superior vehicle, whilst the Octavia provides more practicality and space for a much more affordable price. I am moving from a 320D to a VRS TSI because it will be more practical for family use and cheaper to run overall once purchasing, servicing, and fuel costs are accounted. I am 6ft4 and it was always a struggle fitting the kids in the back of the 320D. The Octy has an extra 8 or 9 cm leg rear room and a much bigger boot. That's what won it for me.

[TudorM]

I am moving from a 320D to a VRS TSI because it will be more practical for family use and cheaper to run overall once purchasing, servicing, and fuel costs are accounted.

 

I'm doubting that though. BMWs are quite frugal lately (especially the diesels). The TSI VRS can be a pig when it comes to fuel consumption, when driven as it should be.

[Orville]

I'm doubting that though. BMWs are quite frugal lately (especially the diesels). The TSI VRS can be a pig when it comes to fuel consumption, when driven as it should be.

I averaged late 30's / early 40's within the 320D. If I was really careful I could achieve 60mpg on the motorway, but most of my driving is around town and I only do 6-8K miles per year. The cost of the TSI's fuel and road tax will be largely offset by the savings in servicing, especially with 3-years free on the Octy. There is also a large saving on purchase prices once all options and financing are considered, and the 320 was just not practical (size-wise) for me anymore.

 

The 3-series is a lovely car and I will miss it, but it is not the best tool for a growing family. The Octy has a better balance for my needs, and the TSI engine gives me something better to look forward to. I don't think I would have "upgraded" from the 320D to a VRS TDI because the engine change would have been equal at best. After test driving the TDI it felt pretty similar to what I already had whilst the TSI made me smile. By choosing the TSI I can console myself with the knowledge that I have a slightly faster and much nicer sounding motor, even if the quality feel and handling is not quite as good. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the TDI engine, just that it was too similar to the BMW unit in terms of performance and refinement. This is certainly no bad thing because the BM's 2.0l derv is considered one of the best in the world.

Edited 13 January, 2014 by Orville

[TudorM]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love the TSI engine, it's a gem. Smooth, quiet and extremely flexible in its power delivery. You won't regret it. As long as you can live with the lower mpg numbers, you'll be a happy puppy. I know I am!

[jlwah]

Sorry but I think the facts stand as below:-

My father in law had a newish (previous not current gen) A6 Allroad until fairly recently; in the last bought of fairlh heavy snow we had they tried to visit us from Sussex in Oxfordshire and ended up turning round and going home just a couple of miles from home and my father in law is a fair and confident driver.....now that car is a Q5 in an A6 shell and a supposedly v capable soft road 4x4 but it wasnt able to come up with the goods to get them up to ours.....must confess the combination of 19" wheels and summer tyres did not help one bit but it turned out to be almost just as unusable in the snow as any other front/rear drive car despite its trick quattro system and air suspension. Without smaller wheels and decent winter tyres it was a complete waste.

 

A6 Allroads are based on A6 platform. Q5 is based on A4 platform.

 

4WD is definitely better than FWD or RWD, everything else being equal. FWD with winter tyres is better than 4WD on summer tyres.

[tamkyo101]

I bought a set of Snow socks for my 330D which live in one of the compartments in the boot (Just in case), used them once last year (in Austria) and was great!

 

The main issue with 3 Series is the RFT tyres, not only are they a harder ride and unforgiving (Tramlining is something you get used to) they are pretty pricey compared to VRS tyres (Even on 17" my rears were £400 for the pair) as opposed to 225/40/18's being around £240 for the pair for PS3's, would not like to know the cost of Runflat 18" or 19" tyres :wonder:

 

The boot is also significantly smaller than the Octavia Estate (MY 330D has 460L boot, Octavia 3 Combi 610L), although MPG would probably be better on the 320D than the VRS as BMW do make efficient engines

[Orville]

I agree that run flats are more trouble and costly than they are worth. Sure, if it is tipping down with rain and you get a puncture they can save you a lot of hassle, but you still need to change them soon afterwards and I personally would rather save the £80 per corner and get wet changing the wheel myself. Run flats and emergency foam are curses of modern motoring.

[mikeoz]

I bought a set of Snow socks for my 330D which live in one of the compartments in the boot (Just in case), used them once last year (in Austria) and was great!

 

The main issue with 3 Series is the RFT tyres, not only are they a harder ride and unforgiving (Tramlining is something you get used to) they are pretty pricey compared to VRS tyres (Even on 17" my rears were £400 for the pair) as opposed to 225/40/18's being around £240 for the pair for PS3's, would not like to know the cost of Runflat 18" or 19" tyres :wonder:

 

The boot is also significantly smaller than the Octavia Estate (MY 330D has 460L boot, Octavia 3 Combi 610L), although MPG would probably be better on the 320D than

Very true about the run flats ... most bmw owners ditch them for normal tyres. Makes a hugh difference to ride and handeling. Day & night really.

[Stuarted]

As someone who may, in a year or so, be chosing between a Mk3 Octavia estate and a BMW 3-series Touring, I find this thread fascinating and very informative.  I am pleased that there have been several posts from drivers who have owned Skodas and BMWs, and it is a tribute to the BMW that is gets favourable mentions on a Skoda forum.  That is also a testament to the impartial and realistic attitude of Skoda owners!

Since I would be buying the 4WD drive version of either, the FWD v. RWD debate is of little relevance to me, and I grew up with RWD cars so they don't spook me.

But I would like to hear more about the BMW 330d.  Motoring writers and posters here all say that the 320d engine is one of the best, yet the 330d has vastly more performance and not much greater fuel consumption.  It is presumably also smoother, being a '6'.  Why doesn't the 330d get the same high praise?  Has anyone been able to compare the 320d and 330d?

[Genoa1893]

An English (almost ex) colleagues of mine, used to drive a 330d and found its engine wonderful.

 

My seat of the pants told me the same, when he stomped on the throttle (me being a passenger).

 

I drove a 320d and it was nowhere so quick, even if pushed hard.

 

I guess the 330d are only less common...You know, inside it's a small car, with somewhat large dimension. Quality inside isn't as high as you might expect (given the price), and so on....

 

But I loved my 320d, well balanced, great steer and brakes, great engine. But no room, paint awfully delicate, horrible run flats, heavy shifter. This was a pain compared to my tweaked short shifter on my PD170. Indeed.

 

HTH

[tamkyo101]

The engine on the 330D is massively tuneable too, various different companies are quoting figures ranging from 290bhp-335bhp for a remap (245bhp std), this was initially the plan for mine but after realising that it is not big enough for the Ski trips and also nowhere near big enough for a car share for Golf Club matches (3 of us car share to away matches and in mine it means double seat down and leave the single for the 3rd person!), I can fit 3 golf bags and a trolley in the Octavia boot (I tried it at the dealers!).

 

The 330D engine is very smooth and pulls like a train and is OK on fuel (The new F30 is even better), on a trip to Austria (Via German Autobahns) with 4 of us and 4 snowboards (in a roof box) and all our associated gear for 9 days it averaged 37mpg cruising at around 100-110mph mostly.

 

With cruise control set to 80mph it averages around 43-46mpg not bad for a car that can do 0-60 in 6.2s and will happily sit on the autobahn all day at 130mph  ,..................If only it was big enough.

 

In an ideal world I would LOVE the 330D's engine in a VRS estate (With 4WD and 330bhp remap) 

Edited 13 January, 2014 by tamkyo101

[mikeoz]

As someone who may, in a year or so, be chosing between a Mk3 Octavia estate and a BMW 3-series Touring, I find this thread fascinating and very informative.  I am pleased that there have been several posts from drivers who have owned Skodas and BMWs, and it is a tribute to the BMW that is gets favourable mentions on a Skoda forum.  That is also a testament to the impartial and realistic attitude of Skoda owners!

Since I would be buying the 4WD drive version of either, the FWD v. RWD debate is of little relevance to me, and I grew up with RWD cars so they don't spook me.

But I would like to hear more about the BMW 330d.  Motoring writers and posters here all say that the 320d engine is one of the best, yet the 330d has vastly more performance and not much greater fuel consumption.  It is presumably also smoother, being a '6'.  Why doesn't the 330d get the same high praise?  Has anyone been able to compare the 320d and 330d?

The 330d is all the car you could ever want in real world driving. They always write the 320d car up more due to price and the fact that most are reps cars.

str8 6s are great more so with turbos and alot more bmws are going turbo route due to emissions etc.

Any way alot of info on the bmw forums such as e90 post or the f30 one.

1 word of warning tho...main bmw dealers are really ****. Local indy specialist are normally great

Hope that helps

[Furbytom]

 

The main issue with 3 Series is the RFT tyres, not only are they a harder ride and unforgiving (Tramlining is something you get used to)

RFTs on the new F-series BMWs aren't anything like they used to be imho. My 120d has m-sport suspension and 18" RFTs and it is the best riding car I've ever owned. Feels like a magic-carpet compared to our Fabia.

When I test-drove an Octy vRS recently I was quite shocked how hard it was, getting back in the Beemer afterwards was very soothing indeed! :-)

[Zdenek Fibich]

"The TSI VRS can be a pig when it comes to fuel consumption, when driven as it should be."

 

I'm not entirely sure what that last phrase means (probably different things to different people).  I'm no boy-racer but I like to get a move on: on a long run my petrol vRS estate will give 40 mpg.

 

I think that efficient, torque engines like the 1.4 and 20 TSIs will contribute to a decline in the popularity of diesel, particularly if as I suspect diesels won't continue to hold their valuer better then petrols.

[Stuarted]

One small detail: I believe the Mk3 Octavia has the option of a heated front windscreen, but as far as I can see, the 3-series BMW does not.

Seems a strange omission, given that even Ford Modeos offer this, and given that BMW usually love to offer all sorts of (expensive) options and luxury features.

Edited 14 January, 2014 by Stuarted

[TudorM]

"The TSI VRS can be a pig when it comes to fuel consumption, when driven as it should be."

 

I'm not entirely sure what that last phrase means (probably different things to different people).  I'm no boy-racer but I like to get a move on: on a long run my petrol vRS estate will give 40 mpg.

 

I think that efficient, torque engines like the 1.4 and 20 TSIs will contribute to a decline in the popularity of diesel, particularly if as I suspect diesels won't continue to hold their valuer better then petrols.

 

What I meant is that people won't be buying a TSI VRS and drive it everywhere at 30 mph, right? I guess you wouldn't either.

 

Comparing the TSI and TDI VRS mpg figures, I'm guessing the diesel is here to stay for people who are concerned about their fuel consumption.

[tamkyo101]

RFTs on the new F-series BMWs aren't anything like they used to be imho. My 120d has m-sport suspension and 18" RFTs and it is the best riding car I've ever owned. Feels like a magic-carpet compared to our Fabia.

When I test-drove an Octy vRS recently I was quite shocked how hard it was, getting back in the Beemer afterwards was very soothing indeed! :-)

Thats strange, I test drove a Manual VRS TDI Estate and thought the ride felt good, no different to my 330D SE, in fact when I got back in my 330D after the 2 hour test drive of the VRS I immediately noticed how heavy the clutch was and how much the car tramlined (Something I must be used to!).

The only negative thoughts on the VRS were the road noise from the rear and the Driver seat lumbar support needed a bit more support (I had it on max and I could have used a little more!), other than that it felt like I was driving a VW Golf (Had enough of those to know I like them lol).

 

I averaged 47.8mpg on that test drive which was approx 45 miles of urban driving with a 15 mile blat on the dual carriageway.

 

Fuel economy is not the B all and end all for me, its a combination of boot space, looks, comfort, features and fuel economy (In that order)

 

I mainly work from home so approx 60% of my yearly mileage is spent driving to Golf clubs or driving to the alps, both of which require lots of boot space   

 

Another selling point is the DSG, I realised quite quickly after selling my GTI Edition 30 DSG that I did miss the DSG box, especcially for the traipse from cornwall to Saddleworth to see my brother and his clan, that 370 mile 6.5 hour (average) stop start journey soon gets weary in a manual!

[Furbytom]

Thats strange, I test drove a Manual VRS TDI Estate and thought the ride felt good, no different to my 330D SE, in fact when I got back in my 330D after the 2 hour test drive of the VRS I immediately noticed how heavy the clutch was and how much the car tramlined (Something I must be used to!).

How old is your 330d tamkyo? Is it the new F30 generation or the previous gen E9x?

I've never experienced tramlining or harsh ride on the latest models tbh. A mate of mine was gobsmacked at how smooth it all is compared to his z4 lol

[Kenfold]

I went from a new shape 3 series sport to a new VRS estate. i looked at the 3 series estate but it is really cramped in the back compared to the octavia. The size of the boot just doesn't compete with the VRS and if i am honest i much prefer the VRS to my 3 series.

 

All comes down to personal preferences but i liked my 3 series sport, LOVE my VRS.....

 

Keith

[tamkyo101]

How old is your 330d tamkyo? Is it the new F30 generation or the previous gen E9x?

I've never experienced tramlining or harsh ride on the latest models tbh. A mate of mine was gobsmacked at how smooth it all is compared to his z4 lol

 

Its a late 2009 (59) 330D LCI model (The later one with 245ps), its designation is E91, it is NOT the new F30 which I am told is a better ride (and quicker).

 

Mine is SE spec but has the optional Sports interior (Basically it's a Dakota Grey Leather M Sport interior on the softer SE suspension settings)

 

Also a Bit unfair to compare a poverty spec £30K BMW 320D Touring (SE Spec)) to a £23K VRS.

 

Adding a few options on the BMW would soon bring it upto £35K, whereas a well specced VRS would be nearer £27k

Edited 14 January, 2014 by tamkyo101

[pipsyp]

Its a late 2009 (59) 330D LCI model (The later one with 245ps), its designation is E91, it is NOT the new F30 which I am told is a better ride (and quicker).

Mine is SE spec but has the optional Sports interior (Basically it's a Dakota Grey Leather M Sport interior on the softer SE suspension settings)

Also a Bit unfair to compare a poverty spec £30K BMW 320D Touring (SE Spec)) to a £23K VRS.

Adding a few options on the BMW would soon bring it upto £35K, whereas a well specced VRS would be nearer £27k

The BMW on paper isnt as cheap. Definitely isnt quite as practical. Id still rather have one to an Octavia though, just to get the car I want i'd probably be looking to spend a bit more than i am prepared to a month on a car right now.

BMW do however offer some very favourable low deposit, large dealer contribution PCP offers that make their v expensive cars cheaper to personal lease than I was expecting. I may give them a look when my O3 needs replacing; intent on keeping the next one for a while.

I never really looked into it but know Furbytom on here bought a lovely (and spec'd) 120d M Sport auto not too long ago, he got a very good deal and dont think its costing him a great deal a month more than a vRS TDi would have done....that said of course the 1 series is VW Golf not Passat level practicality wise. Size not being an issue would still rather be running the BM though.

Also its interesting the E90 series variants are starting to age a little now but I think a later 330d like you are running just from a performance perspective would knock even a vRS TSi out of the water and not be a great deal more expensive to run in terms of fuelling than the TDi, gather even the emissions are fairly low given its output. I still think they look really nice too.

Shame your LCI doesnt have the auto box (if ive read correctly), probably the best combination for the 330d. The run flat tyres can be changed for regular ones I am sure too, have a profound positive effect on the ride on those cars.

[Furbytom]

Its a late 2009 (59) 330D LCI model (The later one with 245ps), its designation is E91, it is NOT the new F30 which I am told is a better ride (and quicker).

 

Mine is SE spec but has the optional Sports interior (Basically it's a Dakota Grey Leather M Sport interior on the softer SE suspension settings)

 

Also a Bit unfair to compare a poverty spec £30K BMW 320D Touring (SE Spec)) to a £23K VRS.

 

Adding a few options on the BMW would soon bring it upto £35K, whereas a well specced VRS would be nearer £27k

Ahh thought so. You should try an F30 330d m-sport, it'll ride better than an Octy vRS I'd imagine.

Don't forget to factor in her huge discounts available from BMW at the moment. 15-18% off list is easily achievable. :-)

[Furbytom]

The BMW on paper isnt as cheap. Definitely isnt quite as practical. Id still rather have one to an Octavia though, just to get the car I want i'd probably be looking to spend a bit more than i am prepared to a month on a car right now.

BMW do however offer some very favourable low deposit, large dealer contribution PCP offers that make their v expensive cars cheaper to personal lease than I was expecting. I may give them a look when my O3 needs replacing; intent on keeping the next one for a while.

I never really looked into it but know Furbytom on here bought a lovely (and spec'd) 120d M Sport auto not too long ago, he got a very good deal and dont think its costing him a great deal a month more than a vRS TDi would have done....that said of course the 1 series is VW Golf not Passat level practicality wise. Size not being an issue would still rather be running the BM though.

Also its interesting the E90 series variants are starting to age a little now but I think a later 330d like you are running just from a performance perspective would knock even a vRS TSi out of the water and not be a great deal more expensive to run in terms of fuelling than the TDi, gather even the emissions are fairly low given its output. I still think they look really nice too.

Shame your LCI doesnt have the auto box (if ive read correctly), probably the best combination for the 330d. The run flat tyres can be changed for regular ones I am sure too, have a profound positive effect on the ride on those cars.

Mate some of the leasing deals are epic at the moment!

Take this 330d m-sport touring for example -£368 /month inc VAT......

http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_bmw_3-seriestouring_330dm-sport5drauto(businessmedia)-xmasdeli_15042_leasing.php#.UtW5ZX8gGK0

Up until recently they have been offering the M135i at £260/month inc vat......!!!

Edited 14 January, 2014 by Furbytom