So we see this all the time. Someone is looking to increase engine power. Be it remap, cams, throttle bodies whatever.

Then people always come along and say you need to upgrade the brakes and suspension as theirs not point having power if you can't stop or go round corners.

So out of interested how many people believe this?

I'll start it off with a no

I'm thinking of uprating my brakes but a part of me thinks, 'well, the weight of the car hasn't increased (or minimally due to bigger discs)' so why should I need to stop faster.

I voted no,

 

The car still weighs the same, and will still travel at the same speeds. All a remap does is allow you to get to that speed faster. Might be worth considering if you do a lot of track work, but otherwise standard is fine.

 

My MK1 Octy vRS (RIP) was remapped and run on standard brakes, they could take 2 consecutive laps of the nurburgring without any issues.

It ultimately depends on how much extra power you want, what you want to use the car for and how good/bad the standard setup is.

My superb would have no trouble with extra power, but you'd have to uprate everything on, say, a Daewoo Matiz of you gave it more power

Edited 25 November, 201312 yr by dobbey

Brakes convert kinetic energy to heat, kinetic energy is dependent on vehicle mass and its velocity.  So in braking from 70mph to 0mph, you'll be converting the same amount of kinetic energy whether your car has 100 or 200BHP.  If the stopping distances are reasonable, then what's the point of upgrading the brakes?, well if you're going to use the extra power, you're going to be using your brakes a lot more.  Bigger brakes, more braking pistons means a bigger disc & pad area, more fluid in the hydraulics, which means that they can absorb more heat and get rid of it quicker to the surroundings.

 

You want suspension to be able to cope well with the weight transfer when accelerating and cornering, if the car isn't leaning much, it will help to keep you from having a trip off road.

 

If you're not going to radically alter your driving style post remap, the chances are that the standard brakes and suspension will be sufficient.

I voted yes, after driving my Golf with standard suspension arb's etc and standard brakes and then driving it stripped out with up rated suspension and brakes it has made a big difference to handling, this is before I up rate the power.

 

 Power is pointless if you can't use it.

I voted no,

 

The car still weighs the same, and will still travel at the same speeds. All a remap does is allow you to get to that speed faster. Might be worth considering if you do a lot of track work, but otherwise standard is fine.

 

My MK1 Octy vRS (RIP) was remapped and run on standard brakes, they could take 2 consecutive laps of the nurburgring without any issues.

That was my thinking, Manny but one thing I did notice on my Fabia was that after fitting 16" wheels with 205/45/16 tyres, it did seem to come to a halt a little later than when it was on the 14s with 185/60/14 tyres. This may be accounted for by the extra centrifugal force, if any. Uprating the shocks and springs seems to have cured that issue though.

 

I think there's no reason for me (personally) to go above a 288 disc rather than my standard 256 discs.

If brakes are a pointless modification because the weight of the car remains the same, why does the 170 tdi Yeti have bigger brakes than a 140 tdi Yeti?   :wonder:

If brakes are a pointless modification because the weight of the car remains the same, why does the 170 tdi Yeti have bigger brakes than a 140 tdi Yeti?   :wonder:

I told SWMBO to get a 170 after BossFox mentioned they had bigger brakes. She didn't listen, again. But TBH, Jamie, I've never had a problem stopping the Yeti, even when trying IYKWIM

perhaps, and this is just a thought, mind, as well as 0-60 times, manufacturers should also quote their 60-0 times?

IKWYM Lee, the same question would apply to a VRS Fabia and a 1.2 turbo Monte VRS or why do low power cars have drums on the rear and discs on the rear?

 

 Manufacturers see a need to upgrade based on power so it would seem obvious that if the power is to be increased then brakes and suspension should be also..

 

Better to have too much than not enough of anything IMO.

 

 Oh I nearly forgot, you can have the biggest and best brakes in the world but tyres also play a massive part in all of this, not only for stopping but for getting the power onto the road, tyres are probably the easiest and cheapest mod to make to any car that will give a very big performance gain too. 

 Oh I nearly forgot, you can have the biggest and best brakes in the world but tyres also play a massive part in all of this, not only for stopping but for getting the power onto the road, tyres are probably the easiest and cheapest mod to make to any car that will give a very big performance gain too. 

     ^^^    That bit, never ever scrimp n save on tyres

IKWYM Lee, the same question would apply to a VRS Fabia and a 1.2 turbo Monte VRS or why do low power cars have drums on the rear and discs on the rear?

 

I never understood why the MkI Fabia 1.9TDi had rear discs, yet the MkII Fabia 3 1.9TDi had drums on the rear :think:  Can't be cost saving,,,,,,,,,,,,,can it?

perhaps, and this is just a thought, mind, as well as 0-60 times, manufacturers should also quote their 60-0 times?

About a week each way for my car

Well.. I put 1.8T engine in my car, if I hadn't upgraded the brakes and suspension I'd be dead now... Simple as that.

Depends on how much of a power increase tbh. Stage 1 map on a Fabia Vrs is fine, no need for bigger brakes (I only changed suspension as the standard stuff made it look like the car was on stilts and it handled like a boat) . My old type r had a 100bhp increase over standard and the standard brakes were fine, didn't feel the need to upgrade

Try braking as hard as you can (don't try this at home!) -  at the speed at which the ABS activates it is the then the tyres that are the limiting factor not the brakes.  As for uprating suspension because of more engine power that must depend on the ability of the original setup.  I would have thought extra power may effect traction (again tyres are a factor) but has no relevance to cornering speed.  I see gaining extra power and improving the suspension as two completely separate and unrelated mods.

 

In most modern cars if the driver is cornering fast enough on the public road that road holding is insufficient the answer is to question the safety of his/her driving, not modify the suspension to go even faster.  I know the argument that improvement will give a greater margin of safety but drivers have a tendency to drive in a manner that uses up that extra margin.  Many suspension mods that I have seen seem to be done for looks, not to improve the abilities of the car.  Indeed some of the mods reduce the abilities of the car.  Excessive lowering and wider wheels fitted with 'stretched' tyres are typical of this.

 

However, all modern mass produced cars have compromises in their design so there is always room for improvement.  It is up to the individual whether they consider the cost of mods to their own car as justified.

it all begins with what you want from your car, if you add 10-15% more power than before but realistically you only use it once in a month for 2miles, then no you should not really upgrade anything else. 

 

If you are a track day enthusiast, then you definitely need to upgrade, afterall WRC cars that go on tarmac they lower the car, they put big AP Racing brakes etc, they probably know a couple of things better than the rest of us.

 

On the other hand, if you are travelling on motorways at speeds like 120mp/h, having better brakes will mean you can stop sooner.  Life and death as you have seen on youtube is only 50cm apart, so when you travel at speeds like this, stopping 50meters sooner than your original brake setup will definately help you stay alive if something goes wrong.

 

My take on suspension: so I was travelling at 100-110mph and a drunk driver decided he wanted to come on the fast lane without reason or indicating, no  other cars in the front of us.  As I was overtaking him, he clipped my rear, the car went totaly sideways (like drifting), then on the return I did another big drift and then a couple of small ones and saved it.  The road was a bit downhill too.  The only reason the car did not rollover on the 2nd drift was purely because I had brand new KW Var2 installed.  If I had the standard AUM suspension, I dont think I would make it out alive. 

 

my car is only 220bhp, has 4pot calipers in the front, and is about to have F+R ARB and only then will consider upgrading the power even more.  If you hear someone wanting to upgrade their brakes or suspension, please dont stop them.

Interesting to pick up on this thread a bit late.

 

I vote yes, leaving aside the question of 'need' I would say that too many people spend money on extra power mistakenly believing that it will bring more enjoyment of the car.

 

As I read through the various sub forums Octy/Fabia particularly, handling is a weak point on both these cars yet you read more about people going stage 1 Remap first.

 

Assuming you are doing this with a view to doing some more spirited driving or enjoying the driving that you do more, I think hands down there is much more to be enjoyed about a set of well setup handling modifications than a power remap.

I voted no, but people don't normally modify their cars for rational reasons.

 

If you are a track day enthusiast, then you definitely need to upgrade, afterall WRC cars that go on tarmac they lower the car, they put big AP Racing brakes etc, they probably know a couple of things better than the rest of us.

I imagine they have reasons for doing what they do, whereas most people seek to emulate others rather than looking for a measurable benefit.