Thanks for posting this observation Mr.G

Dirt tends to lie over the wax surface...What this does is visually affect the behaviour of your chosen LSP

When this thin layer is removed by washing, it exposes the layer to the elements again

Obviously this wont continue for ever, but that's why you see this

 

Not sure on that exactly Chris, don't think the top layer washes away to expose a fresh layer of was with reinvigorated beading; a layer of bonded wax is so thin. But I did see a decent post the other week on DW. I know you're not a fan of it, but check out post #8 from Dodo Juice as to why beading diminishes.

 

http://detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=369665

Thanks Neil

I am sure this is why  ...... I see it all the time...problem being though..washing naturally degrades the LSP eventually as well.

After a wash the LSP starts to bead again ...Why?...... because the dirt was preventing the hydrophobic action from working as well....I'm very surprised you've not seen this

You directed me to DW..so I read this:

From DW (DodoJuice reply:)

Initial beading will diminish after 2-4 weeks due to a build up of dirt.......

 

Nothing else Ive read there makes me change my advice Neil..Washing refreshing the surface..It just does! 

The poster there on DW used Prima Amigo (A Glaze) this, it was suggested, caused the LSP to diminish early..Yes..Ive seen that too..Wondered why TBH...

In this case though, no glaze was used..nor do I use a glaze on my cars or clients' and yet the initial beading falls off after a few days and then after a wash it returns

Your views? I'm prepared to have your opinion or better still, your experiences

 

@Samuir...You've clicked the 'like' button on Neil's Post......Can you explain why?

I assume you agree with his comment..You're quite entitled to do so

BUT

Why?

Do you have a comment on this LSP behaviour yourself?

If my observations are wrong, I would like to hear from you as well.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Thanks Neil

I am sure this is why  ...... I see it all the time...problem being though..washing naturally degrades the LSP eventually as well.

After a wash the LSP starts to bead again ...Why?...... because the dirt was preventing the hydrophobic action from working as well....very surprised you've not seen this

You directed me to DW..so I read this:

Nothing else Ive read there makes me change my advice Neil..Washing refreshing the surface..It just does! 

The poster there on DW used Prima Amigo (A Glaze) this, it was suggested, caused the LSP to diminish early..Yes..Ive seen that too..Wondered why TBH...

In this case though, no glaze was used..nor do I use a glaze on my cars or clients' and yet the initial beading falls off after a few days

Your views? I'm prepared to have your opinion or better still, your experiences

 

@Samuir...You've clicked the 'like' button on Neil's Post......Can you explain why?

I assume you agree with his comment..You're quite entitled to do so

BUT

Why?

Do you have a comment on this LSP behaviour yourself?

If my observations are wrong, I would like to hear from you as well.

 

I read on the DW post that the glazing oils within the wax evaporate after 4 weeks or so, not the glaze beneath, therefore the beading ebbs slightly. All waxes contain oils to add gloss. If what you are saying is correct, then a crust forms on the layer, preventing those oils from leaving, then that upper crust is washed away? That would take some really "Nano" particles surely?

 

I'm just saying that washing doesn't remove a layer of wax to expose a fresh layer of wax, I'd be interested to know your source for that information. I'm not a chemists, but understand the basics of chemical bonding from my job background.

 

Of course, washing will remove loose dirt on the surface to freshen beading somewhat, but the wax will age as a layer, lose it's initial beading capability due to the lovely oils that cause epic beading diminish throughout the whole layer of wax and contamination will build up. Otherwise with those really durable chemical resistant waxes would age and not wash away, but the beading would be horrendous? 

 

Just questioning the chemical logic behind the statement brother, it's not a personal attack.

 

I'm sure Ste was just appreciating the link. He probably believes that, as I believe, Dodo Juice are a reputable company producing decent waxes, whom I'm sure understand the whole bonding process and what happens to their waxes as time takes it's toll. I wouldn't read into it too much buddy.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

Very nice Karl!

Nothing scientific Neil

Just observation

I'm not suggesting that washing removes a layer of wax to expose another...just that washing removes the dirt that is preventing beading of the wax or lsp..that all I have ever said

Nothing scientific Neil

Just observation

I'm not suggesting that washing removes a layer of wax to expose another...just that washing removes the dirt that is preventing beading of the wax or lsp..that all I have ever said

That's the way I read it. Perhaps the first use of the word 'layer' in the one sentence suggested some wax rather than dirt.

Thanks for posting this observation Mr.G

Dirt tends to lie over the wax surface...What this does is visually affect the behaviour of your chosen LSP

When this thin layer of dirt is removed by washing, it exposes the wax layer to the elements again

Obviously this wont continue for ever, but that's why you see this

I can see that Nick...I should have said 'layer of dirt'

That's the way I read it. Perhaps the first use of the word 'layer' in the one sentence suggested some wax rather than dirt.

 

I'll clear this up as Chris isn't.

 

What Chris originally put is that washing removes a top layer of wax, an upper crust of contaminated wax, that will reinvigorate the beading. That is factually and scientifically incorrect. So I stated this with my above post.

 

Chris then went back and edited what he put to read that removing dirt does this after he had been away and "checked his facts". Which is factually correct and is now making out that I misunderstood his post, which I didn't.

 

I have no idea why Chris can edit his posts without it showing, or indeed I cannot understand why he would need to edit his posts to change his statement only then to make out that I have misunderstood his statement. It is very strange behaviour, but I just wanted to set the record straight. I am not being argumentative or picking a fight as it seems above. But if someone tells you "the world is flat" I will correct them, even if they are then able to go back and tell you "the world is round" by editing that post without you being able to see that they have edited their post.

 

Neil

I'll clear this up as Chris isn't.

 

What Chris originally put is that washing removes a top layer of wax, an upper crust of contaminated wax, that will reinvigorate the beading. That is factually and scientifically incorrect. So I stated this with my above post.

 

Chris then went back and edited what he put to read that removing dirt does this after he had been away and "checked his facts". Which is factually correct and is now making out that I misunderstood his post, which I didn't.

 

I have no idea why Chris can edit his posts without it showing, or indeed I cannot understand why he would need to edit his posts to change his statement only then to make out that I have misunderstood his statement. It is very strange behaviour, but I just wanted to set the record straight. I am not being argumentative or picking a fight as it seems above. But if someone tells you "the world is flat" I will correct them, even if they are then able to go back and tell you "the world is round" by editing that post without you being able to see that they have edited their post.

 

Neil

I have communicated with Neil what had happened via PM..He now understands

 

I edited my posts because he read them wrongly...or I wrote them badly...That's the reason I edited it, not to go away and research or deliberately disagree with him

I changed it to read as follows:

When this thin layer of dirt is removed by washing, it exposes the wax layer to the elements again

 

All sorted out amicably ...as it should be ...Just a misunderstanding

I apologise that you may have been confused by both answers and I hope you now have the answer you need

Please PM me if you haven't...It will be treated in pure confidence

Chris

I've seen this before, with post editing after the effect for effect, I didn't like it back then either. Freedom members do get a longer grace period to edit posts along with other perks like hiding their own posts or topics. It can play havoc with the perception of whats going on or that the moderation team are hiding posts willy nilly, when in fact we're not.

 

Many will know I'm preparing a new site, with the new site comes a set of changes in how the software runs/handles 'stuff'. For the last week I've been making micro adjustments to permissions and settings. I made one this morning that will show the edited by/when for all, it was coming in the migration, it just got here a bit faster. I hope it clears things up a little.

Questioning likes? Come on, as of last week there are 468,863 likes, you want everyone justified or just a select few? hmm.

 

I'll never get why n+1 experts cannot agree to disagree, but it's been going on for a long time and will continue long after we've shuffled off to beading heaven.

 

"After all, those who will live in peace must agree to disagree in many things with their fellow-labourers, and not let little things part or disunite them." [wp]

Edited 10 November, 201510 yr by ColinD
Removed formatting glitch

Now I'm confused. Chris didn't edit his original post (#1234), he quoted it and changed the wording to ensure there wasn't any further misunderstanding (#1243). From reading #1245 it seems that the whole subject has been clarified via PM, so lets hope this is the last we see/hear of it.

Indeed

Read back Colin

I've seen this before, with post editing after the effect for effect, I didn't like it back then either. Freedom members do get a longer grace period to edit posts along with other perks like hiding their own posts or topics. It can play havoc with the perception of whats going on or that the moderation team are hiding posts willy nilly, when in fact we're not.

 

Many will know I'm preparing a new site, with the new site comes a set of changes in how the software runs/handles 'stuff'. For the last week I've been making micro adjustments to permissions and settings. I made one this morning that will show the edited by/when for all, it was coming in the migration, it just got here a bit faster. I hope it clears things up a little.

Questioning likes? Come on, as of last week there are 468,863 likes, you want everyone justified or just a select few? hmm.

 

I'll never get why n+1 experts cannot agree to disagree, but it's been going on for a long time and will continue long after we've shuffled off to beading heaven.

 

"After all, those who will live in peace must agree to disagree in many things with their fellow-labourers, and not let little things part or disunite them." [wp]

As always, you hit the nail on the head with perspective. The changes are a necessary step I feel to prevent the above.

Now lets get back to those beading piccies before beading heaven beckons us all!!!

As requested Neil... Some lovely beadage....

Very tight Ste! Lovely Jubbly!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

 

Now that is lovely!

Very nice that - great capture too 

Sunshine this morning Although it's likely to be the last for a few days. Still, the rain should result in more beading opportunities...

 

BSD I presume Martin?

Edited 12 November, 201510 yr by ChrisRs

BSD I presume Martin?

Gonna sound dumb Chris, but being a noob to the world of detailing what's LSP and BSD? I presume there short for something

Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer (BSD)

Buy here: http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/detailing-sprays/sonax-xtreme-brilliant-shine-detailer-750ml/prod_1178.html

Edited 12 November, 201510 yr by ChrisRs

I was worried it was going to be way more complicated than that, cheers Chris

I was worried it was going to be way more complicated than that, cheers Chris

The simplest things in life are often the best

Edited 12 November, 201510 yr by ChrisRs