I had a Punto 1.2 Speedgear for 3 years and 36,000 miles on Lease from Motabilty.

It was one that had no issues and was just wonderful IMO.

So it is a case of each to their own.

I have only driven Automatics for 3 decades now, every gearbox type i get the chance to, some are wonderful, some not great and some just do the job.

I for one would love a De Tomaso Pantera   (Italian car with an American engine).

That tended to squirt petrol from the carbs just as the engine hit a temp. suitable to produce combustion.

Edited 10 February, 201610 yr by postmanpat

Emissions (CO2/fuel economy and NOx) are the driving force behind ever aspect of car design

Aero CD (not much you can do about 'area' though......'inline seating'?)

Engine drag ...sensors ....ultra high pressure fuel pumps

Up to 10 speed gearboxes with freewheeling

Complexity everywhere you look

And

Reduced design lifespan with 100% recyclability

It's disappearing up its own fundamental

Best try driving one, they certainly do not hunt.

9 speed is almost just like CVT (Subaru Lineatronic gearbox)  seamless and gets the best from the engines, economy and performance.

A bit like a 7speed DSG with a 1.4 tsi VW engine.

 

Tried the new ZF 9 speed box in the new CRV. It is very smooth on up shifts but I found it can be a little caught out on downshifts and sometimes reluctant to change down a ratio then changes down two or three when you don't really need it too.

 

Certainly not as brilliant as the ZF 8 speed box in the longitudinal engine variants which has been excellent in every model I've tried it in.

 

Lee

Like all Modern Automatics / Automated Manuals they learn. (So do some CVT Types)

Which is nice, so you give Demonstrators, Hire cars, Loaners etc a while and see how they behave and learn.

 

Somehow Professional Road Testers, Journalists etc seem to forget that when reviewing cars, 

and often those borrowing cars do.

 

Give them time, sometimes you change your style of driving to suit a car.

Like putting on new shows, break them in, or buying shoes from a charity shop, they fitted someone else.

 

My Memory Foam mattress last night must have remembered someone else, certainly not me.

 

ps

Then when borrowing a car, 

the first and sensible thing is, Set your Tyre Pressures, 

and do not review cars or decide how they behave until you are the one that filled the fuel tank and know what the engine is running on.

Edited 11 February, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

Yes I must say I much prefer to have fewer longer gears than lots of short gears but that's the way things are moving. More gears with short close ratios.

 

I must say I agree with logiclee on the ZF8 speed box. I drove a Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI Bluemotion a while back and the gearbox was hugely impressive. Not hunting up or down, smooth at slow speeds, quick gearshifts and nice ratios. When it's paired with a big smooth V6 TDI it's bound to feel good though but still very impressed. My poor mother in law said she was giving her Yaris 1.3 all it had to keep up with me... which I was surprised as I never used full throttle but it was so effortless up through the gears.

Our 6 Spd in the 308 never changes down to crest motorway hills and that suites me fine.....I can't help feeling many more gears would mean more down changes.

Yes I must say I much prefer to have fewer longer gears than lots of short gears but that's the way things are moving. More gears with short close ratios.

 

I must say I agree with logiclee on the ZF8 speed box. I drove a Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI Bluemotion a while back and the gearbox was hugely impressive. Not hunting up or down, smooth at slow speeds, quick gearshifts and nice ratios. When it's paired with a big smooth V6 TDI it's bound to feel good though but still very impressed. My poor mother in law said she was giving her Yaris 1.3 all it had to keep up with me... which I was surprised as I never used full throttle but it was so effortless up through the gears.

 

 

If it was an 8 Speed 3.0V6 TDi Touareg it would have been the Aisin box and not the ZF box.   The Aisin box is a bit more slushy and not as crisp as the ZF but suits the big off roader perfectly. 

 

Regards

Lee

This thread is about a Small SUV / Offroader. 

2 wheel drives, and some are AWD's.

Euro 6 engines, and particularly a 1.4 Petrol and a Automatic that was chosen for them.

 

So Horses for Courses, and if one type of heavy Automatic or Automated Manual or CVT suited all vehicles, 

then that type might go in every vehicle.

 

Many great Automatics still have the odd dodgy ones,

be that can be in Fords, VW's, Vauxhalls, Kia, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, JLR, Subaru etc etc

 

There are some crackers that work with vehicles with under 200ps, and that give good economy, even better than manual versions give.

Edited 11 February, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

Interesting! I always thought it was a ZF box in that. But just googled it and you're right. Ah well, you live and learn. Either way I was still very impressed with it. Taking it stead it had that "mushy" torque converter feel but as soon as you hit the gas hard you could feel it suddenly bite as the torque converter locked and it was off.

 

It was also hugely impressive on snow and ice! Traffic light grand prix is it's favourite game in snow with winter tyres on!

Our 6 Spd in the 308 never changes down to crest motorway hills and that suites me fine.....I can't help feeling many more gears would mean more down changes.

 

If you can't feel them it doesn't really matter.

 

On the ZF8HP you may get a 8th to 7th downshift but that maybe only a couple of hundred rpm and the box is so smooth you don't even notice.

 

The problem I noticed on the CRV with the ZF9HP I had for the weekend was it tended to hold 9th far too long then go for 7th or even 6th so you get a lurch. Should be easily sorted with software and these are the 1st gen models.

 

Lee

Also what you've got to remember is the Jeep with the 9 speed box is also 4WD so it probably has all those gears to give it a wide range of ratios so it's capable of road but not screaming on the motorway!

This is the dash I was referring to:

 

 

Just try to look past the cheesy american accent and the stupid acronym!

 

I also like the mud splash red line!

Also what you've got to remember is the Jeep with the 9 speed box is also 4WD so it probably has all those gears to give it a wide range of ratios so it's capable of road but not screaming on the motorway!

The priority, to me , is the figure from the test cell rather than anything else.

One of our neighbours has a 08 Jeep of some description and it sounds like a bleeding tractor.

One of our neighbours has a 08 Jeep of some description and it sounds like a bleeding tractor.

 

2.8CRD Cherokee?

 

2.8 four cylinder VM Motori diesel.

 

Lee

A trail rated bleeding tractor......that's about right.

The KJ Cherokee (Liberty in the USA) is quite capable for a smallish SUV on the right tyres. Even if the diesel is very noisy by modern standards.

 

You needed the Auto model for all the better 4X4 transfer box and centre diff though and the diesel used to destroy the autobox with it's shock loading and high torque. This led to the very unpopular F37 Recall and was the main reason I sold mine.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsT8voYKrqg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxQtAWINWg

 

Le

One of our neighbours has a 08 Jeep of some description and it sounds like a bleeding tractor.

I'd guess the 3.0 grand Cherokee or 2.8 Cherokee. I think they sound ace. 4x4s should sound like tractors, they aren't meant for premium driving to the school/shops. They're meant to get dirty! It's like having a expensive pair of winter mountain boots with crampons and only going to the local pub in them, just not right.

Ripper motor in my Wrangler and tough Merc auto

Ripper motor in my Wrangler and tough Merc auto

 

Which Wrangler?

 

The diesel Wrangler for some years had the same Chrysler 545RFE gearbox as the Cherokee/Liberty. It was fine with the 5.7 V8 petrol but the little 2.8 CRD 4 cylinder diesel destroyed it.

 

Lee

Which Wrangler?

 

The diesel Wrangler for some years had the same Chrysler 545RFE gearbox as the Cherokee/Liberty. It was fine with the 5.7 V8 petrol but the little 2.8 CRD 4 cylinder diesel destroyed it.

 

Lee

In the days when Mercedes owned Jeep.....the JK model ...surprisingly refined for an axe but couldn't take your eyes off of the road ...no steering feel at all

In the days when Mercedes owned Jeep.....the JK model ...surprisingly refined for an axe but couldn't take your eyes off of the road ...no steering feel at all

 

The JK 2.8CRD did use the Chrysler 545RFE box and not the Merc box.

 

But the Cherokee/Liberty had already had most of the issues and the F37 recall had already happened. So most JK diesels came from the factory with torque limits imposed on the engine and restrictions on torque converter lockup.

 

I think the box was phased out in 2012.

 

Lee

The JK 2.8CRD did use the Chrysler 545RFE box and not the Merc box.

 

But the Cherokee/Liberty had already had most of the issues and the F37 recall had already happened. So most JK diesels came from the factory with torque limits imposed on the engine and restrictions on torque converter lockup.

 

I think the box was phased out in 2012.

 

Lee

Well there you go, I just imagined it was a similar situation to Mercs other 5 Spd hand-me-downs going to Korean Ssanyong Musso ....having bumped the torque, maybe I was lucky then

Well there you go, I just imagined it was a similar situation to Mercs other 5 Spd hand-me-downs going to Korean Ssanyong Musso ....having bumped the torque, maybe I was lucky then

 

 

Even if you remapped the engine for more torque the gearbox software would prevent maximum torque being produced in 1st and 2nd and would prevent the lockup clutch engaging below 2500rpm in lower gears and the lockup clutch would open at more than 2/3rd throttle which lifted the rpm above the maximum torque band. You couldn't have direct drive and full torque.

 

Early models had full torque in all gears and the torque converter would be fully locked out in 3rd, 4th and 5th. The high torque at low rpm from the big 4 cylinder pulse loaded the lockup clutch and destroyed it, the debris contaminated the oil and could require a full gearbox rebuild.

Jeeps answer was a new torque converter and new engine and gearbox software. It changed the cars from a bit of a low revving monster with direct drive to a slushy rev happy motor with much less torque off the line. This was known as the F37 Recall and was very unpopular and even led to the 2.8 being dropped from some markets.

From 2006 this became standard.

 

The box was strange as it was a 5 speed box but had 6 ratio's. It had two different 2nd gears and used a different one changing down to changing up.

 

Lee

Edited 11 February, 201610 yr by logiclee