20 MPH

[2ndskoda]

I live in Bristol, and today have received details from the council of further 20 mph zones about to be created in the area. Eventually most of Bristol will be a 20 mph zone! - my own area early 2015.

 

Whilst I can understand the rational behind this, this is not good news - in that VAG group cars struggle to reach full and proper operating temperature particularly during the cold periods, and over short journeys do not have a chance of doing so.

I am glad that I 'outed' my CR90 TDI last November, and went to a petrol 1.2 TSI.

The present DPF systems for most makes of car will find this slow speed difficult to deal with. The Euro regulations forced all manufacturers to come up with their  DPF systems to meet emission targets within a certain time scale. Regrettably these systems are still  not fully developed.

 

I do not recall anyone on the forum pages reporting that they were asked to sign a disclaimer (at the time of purchase of a CR 90/105 TDI)

When I bought my diesel in Dec 2011- I signed a form to the effect that I understood that repeated short journeys could result in 'problems'. In other words the diesel was not any longer a car for town/short journeys. Seemingly VAG were well aware at that early stage of potential issues.

As a concept it is brilliant, but in operation it has it's failings.

20 MPH is not going to help

[Ootohere]

Do you really think there is going to be such a noticeable difference if the Max Speed limit is going be 20 mph rather than 30?

 

Bristol does not have that low average temperatures, with 4-14 *oC over the year, 

so they maybe gave that a thought or are just happy that some might buy cars that are not Dirty Diesels as the Safety of Pedestrians improves around the city in the areas with lower Speed Limits.,

[sharkrider]

it also increases CO2 pollution, contrary to policy .

[2ndskoda]

The foremost thought in the minds of the council is to meet pollution regulations - the safety card is pulled out to underpin and support accordingly.

All this helps to cover up the chaotic road/traffic situation here in Bristol, and is reflective of a mayor who is extremely anti motorist at any opportunity.

Sharkrider is correct, these changes could well be counter-productive.

gonephising - wait and see, there are more issues to come with DPF systems!

Edited 10 March, 2014 by 2ndskoda

[Ootohere]

Did the council suggest or say it was a Environment or Green thing.

Usually at the bottom of the list of advantages it comes to the pollution.

After the crossing, and safety issues and encouraging use of public transport etc

'potentially reducing airborne pollution'.

 

Here '20 is Plenty' has been going for a few years now.

Residential areas, near schools, shopping areas etc, and often in Social Housing Estates.

[dazz600]

I live in Bristol, and today have received details from the council of further 20 mph zones about to be created in the area. Eventually most of Bristol will be a 20 mph zone! - my own area early 2015.

Whilst I can understand the rational behind this, this is not good news - in that VAG group cars struggle to reach full and proper operating temperature particularly during the cold periods, and over short journeys do not have a chance of doing so.

I am glad that I 'outed' my CR90 TDI last November, and went to a petrol 1.2 TSI.

The present DPF systems for most makes of car will find this slow speed difficult to deal with. The Euro regulations forced all manufacturers to come up with their DPF systems to meet emission targets within a certain time scale. Regrettably these systems are still not fully developed.

I do not recall anyone on the forum pages reporting that they were asked to sign a disclaimer (at the time of purchase of a CR 90/105 TDI)

When I bought my diesel in Dec 2011- I signed a form to the effect that I understood that repeated short journeys could result in 'problems'. In other words the diesel was not any longer a car for town/short journeys. Seemingly VAG were well aware at that early stage of potential issues.

As a concept it is brilliant, but in operation it has it's failings.

20 MPH is not going to help [/quote

Signed a disclaimer?

I was never aware of dpf until after I bought my monte (in 2011)

Backfired too,worst car I ever bought

All prospective owners should be made aware of such things but am afraid it will never happen

[PDIBK]

Nothing was said to me about DPF, but it doesn't surprise me, as I got the car from a broker, not the supplying dealer.  I also already knew it was on there. 

 

Equally, I know of no-one in real life who has had DPF problems.  Given that DPFs are much more prevalent (I personally know of dozens of people with DPF equipped VAG products) than Twinchargers and Rover K-series,  I would have expected to have heard of a few.

 

Why those?  Well the DPF issue, K-series head gasket implosion and Twincharged drink problem are all examples of modern media/web enhanced automotive problems.  I would therefore have expected to have heard of a few. 

 

I know one person personally and one friend of a friend who has had k-series issues (of maybe 20 k-series owners known personally to me).  I know no-one with DPF issues.  I know no-one with twincharger oil drinking problems.  That doesn't mean they aren't there, but certainly doesn't mean that every DPF car is a time bomb.

 

As to whether 20mph limits will mean DPFs fail, I'm not so sure.  If your whole commute is inner city and you never break out of a 20 mph limit, do you really need to drive?  I'm about to move to Bristol, so may need to use the Monte to commute, but I'd like to think that the 7 mile (as the crow flies) commute each way, would mean the car was getting its proper running in.

 

If I find myself stuck in traffic every day, I'll either route divert (for a bit), driving further and faster, or give that old fitness thing a go - maybe a push bike...

[tonyfvrs]

There is only one safe speed for vehicles and that is 0mph.  Health and Safety will eventually bring the nation to a standstill.

Governments need to spend more time educating people not to step out in front of moving vehicles.

[jme808]

I don't really think the change in the speed limit will make any difference to commuters or people who drive diesels - although may annoy people outside of rush hour and can understand how it may be unappreciated by locals.  Got to say it, but it seems like you're doing an awful lot of speculating (not having a go).

 

I've only heard of one person with a DPF issue, and that wasn't anyone I've known.  I've heard of more problems with catalytic converters (and had 2 replaced on cars I've owned - both at under 100k), which seem to have a much shorter life expectancy than DPF systems.

[Brian69]

I was in Bristol yesterday morning and 20mph sounds optimistic....

Even post rush hour it was nose to tail from the airport to the city centre.

[GeneralPurpose]

Nothing was said to me about DPF, but it doesn't surprise me, as I got the car from a broker, not the supplying dealer.  I also already knew it was on there. 

 

Equally, I know of no-one in real life who has had DPF problems.  Given that DPFs are much more prevalent (I personally know of dozens of people with DPF equipped VAG products) than Twinchargers and Rover K-series,  I would have expected to have heard of a few.

 

Why those?  Well the DPF issue, K-series head gasket implosion and Twincharged drink problem are all examples of modern media/web enhanced automotive problems.  I would therefore have expected to have heard of a few. 

 

I know one person personally and one friend of a friend who has had k-series issues (of maybe 20 k-series owners known personally to me).  I know no-one with DPF issues.  I know no-one with twincharger oil drinking problems.  That doesn't mean they aren't there, but certainly doesn't mean that every DPF car is a time bomb.

 

As to whether 20mph limits will mean DPFs fail, I'm not so sure.  If your whole commute is inner city and you never break out of a 20 mph limit, do you really need to drive?  I'm about to move to Bristol, so may need to use the Monte to commute, but I'd like to think that the 7 mile (as the crow flies) commute each way, would mean the car was getting its proper running in.

 

If I find myself stuck in traffic every day, I'll either route divert (for a bit), driving further and faster, or give that old fitness thing a go - maybe a push bike...

 

Similar experiences to you, in 'real life' few ever get a problem with a dpf. I personally know of only one person who has had a problem with his dpf. This resulted from driving his car (1,6cr Golf) just 3 miles to work in the morning and then 3 miles back home in the evening, all town driving.  He failed to do anything about the warning light on the dash and just drove it without due regard and in ignorance of the hand book advice. In fact, he even drove the car in limp mode several times just to get to work. The garage cleared the dpf for him the first time but could not do so on the second occasion. So it cost him. It didn't need to go that far. He had been warned about the dpf issues of short distance constant town driving. We shouldn't forget DPF's have been about for 25 years on commercials and at least 11 years on cars, all without any major issues. It's not new technology. But it does need to be treated right. I suspect 20mph is a bit slow for a dpf but I doubt it will have any impact if the handbook advice is followed.

[PDIBK]

Given that on a long journey the other day, AT LEAST 1 in 10 cars had a headlight out, presumably with dash warning lights on to tell them as much, maybe people just ignore their cars telling them they're under the weather.

 

But then when the car breaks, at least they can come on to a forum to complain bitterly and attract all the other naysayers.  Before you know it, every Twincharger drinks like a fish, DPFs are a government funded menace to plough money into VAG dealers' pockets and K-series engines aren't fit for China...in fact, if I remember back to my early car buying days, when it wasn't an issue for me (because my cars weren't new enough for a cat), ALL catalytic converters were only good for the scrap yard...or precious metal dealer!

[Huskoda]

I think the biggest problem heading to diesels is the EU stepping up the minimum percentage of biodiesel in the fuel. The engines will get less tolerant due to more emissions controls yet the fuel will get worse. There are big warnings about not using biodiesel with DPF cars for a reason, yet both hands are pushing in opposite directions on this.

[4matt]

I shall side step the DPF debate... On the  20 MPH limit though I have to say I am all for it. Where we live since this has hapened on some streets it has also had the same effect on the streets around the zones. This has the boy racer types most upset, however it doesn't stop most still doing thirty when they get the chance so it makes little or no difference as there is no inforcement of the limits. You never see a speed camera or Police car sitting with a gun to monitor speeds, so what is the point? those Boys will break the law regardless. As I said early on in my post lots of drivers here now just drive at 20 regardles of what zone they are in so it has had an impact like it or not, our average journey times have also become quicker since these limits were introduced with the traffic flow seeming to be more fluid.

[fabiamk2SE]

Actually, theres a 20mph speed limit around here, and it is often enforced by police with speed guns.

They also put a sign up before you get there, saying 'police speed check area'. So anyone caught speeding deserves it i think. If theyre speeding and didnt see the sign, they werent driving with undue care and attention in my view

Edited 15 March, 2014 by Otaylor38

[Daz716]

DPF's are not an issue, they are actually a jolly good reason /excuse /prompt to " go for a drive" something we are all often to busy to get round to.

Now and again, just go somewhere nice, have a lovely day out.

Coast? Country? Museum? Visiting friends,family? Does not need to be too far or too often... Just when you can.

You clear your DPF and have some quality time instead of just compute,work,sleep......

[fabiamk2SE]

But doesnt that deem a dpf pointless? ( or youve bought the wrong car).

The point of having a dpf is to burn off the soot to ash and to make it better for the environment. However, if your having to go for long drive specifically for the dpf to run its course and regen. Are they really that much better for the environment? As your obviously putting pollution into the atmosphere just to regen it?

[Gazbull17]

A DPF doesn't get rid of the soot particles altogether, it's designed to break them down to a more harmless size, that's what the regen does.

[fabiamk2SE]

Yeah.

But if your driving purposely 50 more miles just to regen the dpf (wouldnt be doing it with a non dpf diesel) are you really saving that much? Pollution wise

[Daz716]

A DPf is about the big particles..

A DPF stops large soot particles getting out and clogging up small children's lungs.... It breaks them down to make them safer... That's why diesel exhausts dont have to turn and point. Down to the ground anymore....

[fabiamk2SE]

Still cant be better than not driving (staying at home supping beer ) the extra 50 or so miles though? Could it?

[Ben90]

if your having to go for long drive specifically for the dpf to run its course and regen

 

- you have bought the wrong car.

 

</thread>

Edited 15 March, 2014 by Ben90

[fabiamk2SE]

I agree mate.

But what about plumber/electricians etc etc. they often do stop start journeys around town from one house to the next. Vans are 90% of the time diesel (i guess they need the torque with the extra weight and you dont have to rev then too much)

Then youll start seeing tradesman on a decent run out to regen the dpf?

If they didnt have a dpf, they wouldnt be doing that 50 miles.

[Gazbull17]

I agree mate.

But what about plumber/electricians etc etc. they often do stop start journeys around town from one house to the next. Vans are 90% of the time diesel (i guess they need the torque with the extra weight and you dont have to rev then too much)

Then youll start seeing tradesman on a decent run out to regen the dpf?

If they didnt have a dpf, they wouldnt be doing that 50 miles.

Yeah but white van man doesn't have to worry about regens as he drives with his foot to the floor meaning the revs are always high burning any soot particles in the process.

[Ootohere]

Many Trades People and Business users, Couriers,

Taxis etc had problem from the change from Euro 4 to Euro 5 Diesel Vehicles.

Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault being the most common,

due to being the most Common Light Commercials in Towns and cities.

 

Some got rid of the new vehicle they bought or leased in 2011, and went back to an older vehicle.

 

george