Crossovers

[Mil]

Hey...

Anybody know which car audio brand makes small 2-way or 3-way crossovers? I want split the signal from the head unit into either 2 (mid-highs & sub) or 3-way (highs/mids/subs) and I haven't been able to find a brand that makes them.

If I manage to get this happening I'll have a true 2-way/3-way setup in the car and it will sound even better than it does now.

[mannyo]

I dont know of any mainstream manufacturer that sells the crossovers on their own, only with component speakers.

Over here, if I wanted some crossovers I would use one of two electrical parts companies. Maplin or Radio Spares, they sell both 2 and 3 way versions on their own.

Maplin have a chain of shops and a website http://www.maplin.co.uk/ . Maybe when you are visiting here you could visit one of their shops, they have a few in London and get what you need. A store locator is on the site.

Some examples http://www.maplin.co.uk/search.aspx?MenuNo=813&FromMenu=y&doy=#DayOfYear

[Joel_vRS]

try ebay... sometimes cross overs only sell on there or could pick up a set of cheap speakers with cross overs and bin the speakers

may i ask what your set up is now?

Joel

[Mil]

Thanks for that Manny.

Joel, I currently have the single CD Symphony head unit working the following:

Two stock tweeters (excellent)

Two Earthquake F6.5R 400W coaxials up front

Two Earthquake F6x9s in the rear

One Earthquake Powerhouse amp

One Eminence sub

Currently the signal to the sub is taken from the rear speakers. Believe me, the sound in the car is absolutely fantastic, considering the fact that because of my height I have to sit all the way back so I'm practically in the centre of the car. However, I've got some low-mid bleed through the sub. A crossover will have a much steeper cut-off slope, so that's what I'm looking to have fit in. Also, I want to set it up so that FROM the headunit, I can have mids and highs up front, low mids (set to around 100-120Hz where the kick is most punchy) and sub frequencies out of the sub. I feel that with this set up I'll have a more defined sound, and I definitely won't have any low-mid bleed through the sub.

[boorman1]

Check out Ebay under automotive....amplifiers.. crossovers and capacitors there are lots on offer both large and small.

[150HP&counting]

Link to a whole load of crossovers (and they are sold seperate from speakers)...

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/index.php?cPath=29_31&cadid=c615c357709eb8b3f173df7ec47ca3e2

[arcom]

I know that this will freak you out, but Pioneer makes active crossovers

CD-625 - 3-way

CD-635 - 3-way

CD-615 - 2-way

[Joel_vRS]

how many channels does the power house amp have??

how have you got all the speakers wired up??

Thanks

Joel

[Mil]

Below is an attachement of how they system is currently setup.

The amp receives a signal from the left rear speaker only, filters it and amplifies it for the sub to play out the audio. It truly sounds outstanding simply because especially with rock and metal, the stereo imaging of a tom roll is tweaked in that you get the 'audience perception' (right to left) output, so you really notice the difference in depth between the drummer's left tom and the floor tom...really fantastic.

My only problem is that WHEN I open the boot to have a listen to the sub, I can hear a bleed of low-mids coming through the sub. Obviously the filter slope on the amp isn't steep enough which is why there is bleed-through.

So what I had originally been thinking about is getting a 3-way crossover, placing it to work after the headunit but before the speakers, so that I can split the signal 3-way (hi&mid/low-mid/sub). For that though I'm gonna need another two amplifiers to drive the speakers though, with one amp receiving high&mid signal for the fronts, one amp receiving low-mids and the existing amp for the sub receiving sub-hertz frequency.

But since it's getting too complicated, and since the sound is already fantastic in the car, I think all I'll need now is just a proper steep slope low-pass filter that can give me somethin' like -48dB/Octave...pretty steep, but I don't want bleed-through anymore!

So...any good filter makes for car audio?? I have access to many filters for pro-audio applications since I sell them but then I'll need to run a DC-AC converter to power it up and again it gets too complicated.

So Joel, give me some advice if you can come up with a good solution. I think I just need a good low-pass filter box.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I'd replace the head unit with one that has HPF and LPF filters built in and a proper line out just for the sub.

The sub out with LPF will give a much cleaner signal than using a high level input from one speaker and you won't get any of the higher frequencies bleeding through. Also you'll get the bass from both channels rather than just the one.

You will also have more power to drive the other speakers than the standard stereo and with the HPF you won't be wasting power and causing distortion by trying to put deep bass through small coaxials.

Of course , what do I know......

[Joel_vRS]

Thats what i had deduced after looking into your amp myself...im not being funny here but please stop this maddness...

you are running a risk of damaging your equipment and in the extreme case an in car fire!!

As the good doctor said replace you syphony HU with something that has either a dedicated sub pre out or at least at least one pre out you can connect to the amp...forget the idea about putting crossovers in your dash behind the HU...

id also dissconnect the standard tweeters or find a cross over to go between the coaxial and the tweeters...

I dont know what back groud you have of audio... but i have been into it since for 7 years and won sevral tropheis back in my hey day... so i know what im talking about...

Joel

[Mil]

Whoa whoa...

Look, Zoidberg, instead of being a baby about it, just give me the freaken' advice and leave it at that alright?? Just because it is my field doesn't mean I won't take freaken' advice, stop being a baby with the 'of course what do I know' line. Look I may not come across as a nice person at first because of the way I talk, but I'm not all that bad. I was reading and liking and I do like the advice you have given me because it makes bloody sense, and you had to blow it with that last sentence you dumba**

Come on man I don't have anything personal with you chill out.

Joel, I will follow this advice as a sub-out in the head unit makes much more sense than a complete re-wiring solution to accomodate a crossover. By the way, what's the slope like on the filters of an average aftermarket head unit?

And about the tweeters in front, as far as I know, all that runs these speakers are preamps in the headunit, and I believe the connection could be different from the speakers to the tweeters considering the fact that one time one of the wires had pulled off loose in front and I could hear just the left tweeter working, and they purely were highs, so the risk of feeding it frequencies it isn't capable of handling is most probably very low. Look at it like this, the stock speakers in front were removed and replaced. There was no alteration made to the connection to the tweeters. And why would I risk running a short? The signal from the HU is out of a preamp, not an amp, the most that could happen is I burn out the preamp in the HU if I decide to blow past average the output right??

Thanks a million guys. Joel, you da man. Zoidberg, chill out. I'm your friend, not foe.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Mil , in the last thread you made it abundantly clear that you knew far more than me about audio and that I was the one who should be listening to *your* advice and be grateful for it.

I'm not being a baby or holding a grudge. You asked for advice on your stereo and I gave it. I just thought I'd also remind you of your opinion on my abilities. You'll also remember that when you posted about your trip to England I'd offered to meet up and say hi.

[Mil]

Well I haven't seen it Zoidi. I'm an audio engineering graduate and a practicing technical/audio engineer so I do know more than you about audio in the theoretical and practical side of things. But just because I do doesn't mean I won't seek advice from people who have had more experience in a slightly difference category, which is car audio. Branding is a different issue though and I know the goods of Pioneer and the bads, and many other brands for a fact of that matter, and this is the pro-line i'm talking about, not car audio. So based on this I can highly assume Pioneer don't make great car audio products as they are not a highlighted brand, especially in this region where people go crazy with installs. Earthquake and Alpine and Rockford Fosgate are leading brands here and it's obvious why.

And I never said YOU should be listening to me and I wouldn't do the same did I? I din't. Come on man, just forget it alright? I'm beginning to see that car audio is slightly different from pro-audio and it works a little differently and that's why I ask. I'm not holding any grudge against anyone in here. I asked for advice and I got it from you and Joel. Gorebrush asked for advice and based on my knowledge of Pioneer I advised him not to go for it because the cost of ownership in the long term is high.

'm sorry I was a d*ck about it though ok? And sorry if I insulted you in anyway. When you go for something, always try and go for the best, even if it is a little out of budget, because at the end it will cost you so little to own.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, I've decided to go for Alpine, nothing crazy, one of the classic range...still a bit pricey, but hey it's Alpine! And it's got 3 preouts + a sub-out. The swingout models are soooooo cool but the top of the line in that range is way out my budget, so I'm goin for the top model in the classic range (can't remember the model name).

You gonna be in London? I'm flying there tomorrow and will arrive at about 7 pm. Let's meet up there if you can.

[Joel_vRS]

I dont know the back ground between you two...assume the DR as already advised and got kanrked when you posted about the same thing...but anyways that aside... i have an apline unit and the ability to control the low and high are very advanced..

i for get which model i have now lol

As for the tweets... personaly i find them harsh you will too with the new HU in place... and with out looking at the wireing it would be hard to tell if there getting the full range or just the high's with a new More powerfull HU you may find they will distort or go POP and stop working completly! as for the short your right the worst that coudl happen is the preamp in the HU will burn out... on a new HU are you willing to risk that?

Joel

[Mil]

Huh?

If the new HU is supposed to be more powerful than the stock, then the preamps won't have a problem handling it. I would think that because the stock HU is designed to drive just the weak stock components in the front plus two possible extra coaxials in the rear (since it has the fade option in the control surface) it would be too much load for the preamps to handle a more powerful set of front coaxials plus a sub. An Alpine HU should be able to handle this load MUCH more easily, being more powerful.

Also, because the fronts work as components in stock, I actually think now that it is possible the HU has a crossover of which one set of wires from an output will deliver high-frequency signals to the tweeter and the other set of outputs would send low/mid range frequencies to the woofers on the doors. Right?

I just want a solution to this little bleed my sub is suffering from, and buying an Alpine HU with a sub-out connection seems to be the right way to go. Plus I'll get to play with the EQ and tune it to suit the acoustics of the car..do Alpine HUs come with multi-band graphic EQs?

I don't have a problem with the doc. I was a little rude in one of the earlier threads and I realized it so I apologized.

I hope he answers tonight so I get to meet a Briskoda member!

[Tech1e]

The std speakers up front have caps fitted to the tweeter as a cross over. The tweeters recieve a full signal, no trickery by the headunit.

[Mil]

They receive a full spectrum of frequencies? Or you mean full signal after the crossover? Which means it receives on a certain bandwidth...coz tweeters usually can't handle anything below 10kHz, anything lower will blow them.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I hope he answers tonight so I get to meet a Briskoda member!

I'd offered last time you came over.

I'm nowhere near london today (was on tuesday though)

[Mil]

Well, I'll be in London for three days til the 13th. Sorry about last time but I was too busy with the training to even think about meeting up with people I know in the area.

Like said, i'm in London for three days, in Earl's Court area where the show is.

[arcom]

Stock HU has a 20W RMS amp per channel, whereas aftermarket HU (i.e. Alpine) usually has 27W RMS per channel. As you can see, this is not a huge difference! If you want a high quality sound in you car it would be best to connect all speakers to a separate amp(s) - example: one 4-ch amp for front/rear spk. (say...4x50W RMS) and one monoblock amp for the subwoofer (1x400W RMS)

Also, as Lummox mentioned it, front door tweeters have a capacitor connected in series with them thus making a 6dB/octave crossover. Front speakers receive full bandwidth signal.

[Mort]

If you want a high quality sound in you car it would be best to connect all speakers to a separate amp(s) - example: one 4-ch amp for front/rear spk. (say...4x50W RMS) and one monoblock amp for the subwoofer (1x400W RMS)

Would you then need a crossover to separate the bass for the subwoofer as well, as the stock HU wouldn't have a subwoofer pre-out?

[arcom]

No, the crossover is not neccessary. Connect the subwoofer amp to the HU via the front or rear preamp outputs and then "cut" the high frequency on the amp (about 100-150Hz)

[Mort]

No, the crossover is not neccessary. Connect the subwoofer amp to the HU via the front or rear preamp outputs and then "cut" the high frequency on the amp (about 100-150Hz)

I think my bank balance will now hate you

[Mil]

No, the crossover is not neccessary. Connect the subwoofer amp to the HU via the front or rear preamp outputs and then "cut" the high frequency on the amp (about 100-150Hz)

6db/oct is not enough for a sub if I'm taking a direct full range signal. That's why a sub-out will be necessary, sub outs have a cut-off at about 80Hz with a much steeper cut off.

7watts rms per channel isn't much, but I could certainly benefit from the sub out....

Still thinking...thanks for that though:)