Remap and insurance companies

[mrfrosty]

I know it's been covered in previous threads but couldn't find a definitive answer.

Had my 1.9 PD engined octy for nearly a month now, and i have to say iv'e been slightly underwhelmed by it's lack of grunt in the power dept.

I have made the decision to go for a stage 1 remap by a well known (on here) tuning company, booked thru a local specialist. 

I phoned my insurance to let them know of my intentions, but was lost for words when the lady said after speaking to the underwriters they would like an extra £126 a year. I'm 44 and only pay £193 fully comp for the policy.

My question is do I need / have to tell them?

 

In 11 months i'll switch providers to one that doesn't charge nearly the cost of the policy extra for this mod, but at the moment, my hand are tied. I even explained it to her as a economy / efficiency remap rather than performance. She said the underwriters wanted to know the bhp gain as a percentage, this is what they base their charges on.

Makes the whole thing unaffordable if i tell them.

Edited 14 October, 2014 by mrfrosty

[WaveyDavey]

Yes of course you need to declare it otherwise if you have an accident you will be just an uninsured driver.

 

 

Whenever doing something like this you should always factor in the changes to your insurance policy and not just the price of the remap.

 

You have three options....

 

Have the remap and pay the extra to your current insurance company.

 

Wait eleven months till you renew and swap companies and get your remap done then

 

Find out what fees there will be if you cancel your current policy... (Maybe upto £50???) this fee plus the other insurance company's lower increase in policy may be cheaper than the £126 your current company want.

[littleade]

The answer is yes you do have to tell them otherwise you invalidate your insurance.

[DanialA11]

To be honest with you yes you have to tell them

But if you do not I can guarantee they won't know it's been remapped unless it's a visual mod they don't have a clue, and when I say visual I mean anything that can be seen as not standard e.g exhaust tinted windows alloys

I have never declared a remap however I have declared exhaust bumpers and so on

And I know of many people that have had remapped cars involved in a rta and nothing has ever come back regarding a remap

Edited 15 October, 2014 by DanialA11

[nickguzzi]

The problem is you are effectively driving without insurance.

That is a big naughty, points, ban and likely a bit of a problem getting insured afterwards, at least for a decent amount.

Shove really come to heave, then you could be personally liable for damages, like the ****** who did a hit'n'run on my sister and did a runner, when he was caught, he lost his house in damages, his job because he lost his licence, then his family - sympathy? nah.

Look at swapping insco's. Or cough up. Or wait.

If your talking a 105 to 140ish, then its worth doing and given the consequences, worth waiting/paying the insco for. IMHO.

The really irksome thing, if you (and me) had bought a PD140 in the first place, the insurance would have been the same.

Shark did my remap and it is really excellent. On their site they say any remap is detectable. I think this is so even if it is later removed, or did I misunderstand/misread that?

Perhaps Ben@Shark if he sees this could clarify?

Has anyone ever heard of the police having/using an OBD port reader? Or an insurance assessor? These days that does seem to be ever more likely in the event of a big claim.

[firestormwest]

''I have never declared a remap however I have declared exhaust bumpers and so on''

Cant believe people take such risks what if you were involved in a fatal crash I am pretty certain a remap would be discovered.

[firestormwest]

''I have never declared a remap however I have declared exhaust bumpers and so on''

Cant believe people take such risks what if you were involved in a fatal crash I am pretty certain a remap would be discovered.

[littleade]

Nick has a point well put. Probably your best option would be to get some quotes before renewal time to see what they charge as they do vary a lot so you can see if its viable or not. As a new customer you're likely to get a better deal too, but if you do go down the remap route that will probably be the routine each year. Admiral, esure and LV will usually quote on line with LV being particulrly good if you're after more than a 25% increase as they charge the same no matter what tne increase is. If you look in the insurance section there are several site sponsors who deal in modified cars too. You should be able to get a competative quote-it just takes a bit more effort.

[DanialA11]

''I have never declared a remap however I have declared exhaust bumpers and so on''

Cant believe people take such risks what if you were involved in a fatal crash I am pretty certain a remap would be discovered.

Friend of my way involved in a fatal crash in his mk1 vrs

Car was a cat b completely bannaered

nothing about remap was stayed

Not saying this is always the case but just an example

[steveo82]

"Admiral, esure and LV will usually quote on line"

I left esure as they wouldn't entertain a remap and offered to put me in touch with a "sister" company, not a chance I told them and goodbye!

Mine has only taken the PD from 170 to 200bhp and the guy at admiral was spot on and explained the way they calculate it and as said above, Admiral go from 11 to 26% increase in power with a very fair fee- mine was £28 extra so can't complain and the accepted my IAM driving certificate so more pennies off :-)

 

And as being one of a few coppers on here, don't be too sure it won't be looked at when you have a crash because you just never know, all depends what course the investigation takes so beware....................

[Metblackrat]

The problem is you are effectively driving without insurance.

That is a big naughty, points, ban and likely a bit of a problem getting insured afterwards, at least for a decent amount.

Shove really come to heave, then you could be personally liable for damages, like the ****** who did a hit'n'run on my sister and did a runner, when he was caught, he lost his house in damages, his job because he lost his licence, then his family - sympathy? nah.

Look at swapping insco's. Or cough up. Or wait.

If your talking a 105 to 140ish, then its worth doing and given the consequences, worth waiting/paying the insco for. IMHO.

The really irksome thing, if you (and me) had bought a PD140 in the first place, the insurance would have been the same.

Shark did my remap and it is really excellent. On their site they say any remap is detectable. I think this is so even if it is later removed, or did I misunderstand/misread that?

Perhaps Ben@Shark if he sees this could clarify?

Has anyone ever heard of the police having/using an OBD port reader? Or an insurance assessor? These days that does seem to be ever more likely in the event of a big claim.

You are not driving without insurance as the company is legally obliged to honour any third party liability. The Road Traffic Act is only concerned with third party liabilities so no prosecution would ever be successful. The most likely scenario is you would not get paid out for your own car.

As for the chances of getting caught out, I am a forensic vehicle examiner. I examine cars that have been involved in serious or fatal collisions. Unless a car is heavily modified, I dont even bother looking at the software. Then, should I find that it has been remapped, the question of whether this contributed to the collision has to be answered. The likelyhood is it didn't and as such it might get a passing mention in the report but that's about it.

As for examining the ECU, police do get it done. It is pulled and sent to the manufacturer. The data that is logged would astound you but what is released is strictly controlled, even with a court order.

Cost is a limiting factor. I sent an airbag module to Bosch and the bill came to close to £5k for the data. Good job I don't work to a budget!

[Dean-]

You are not driving without insurance as the company is legally obliged to honour any third party liability. The Road Traffic Act is only concerned with third party liabilities so no prosecution would ever be successful. The most likely scenario is you would not get paid out for your own car.

As for the chances of getting caught out, I am a forensic vehicle examiner. I examine cars that have been involved in serious or fatal collisions. Unless a car is heavily modified, I dont even bother looking at the software. Then, should I find that it has been remapped, the question of whether this contributed to the collision has to be answered. The likelyhood is it didn't and as such it might get a passing mention in the report but that's about it.

As for examining the ECU, police do get it done. It is pulled and sent to the manufacturer. The data that is logged would astound you but what is released is strictly controlled, even with a court order.

Cost is a limiting factor. I sent an airbag module to Bosch and the bill came to close to £5k for the data. Good job I don't work to a budget!

 

You say the data that is logged would astound us - Can you tell us what data this is that the ECU logs please?

[Metblackrat]

You say the data that is logged would astound us - Can you tell us what data this is that the ECU logs please?

Vehicle speed, lateral acceleration, yaw, steering wheel position, speed the steering wheel was turned, pedal position, whether the seat belts were fastened, individual wheel speeds, temperatures to name but a few. There are pages and pages of data available. The issue is understanding it.

Edited 21 October, 2014 by Metblackrat

[Lewwy]

One of the reasons I bought a 2.0, instead of a 1.9, difference in insurance between the two was £15, I am sure it would have been more had I remapped a 1.9. It's always worth being honest with insurance companies about remaps and mods.

[ro55i74]

Vehicle speed, lateral acceleration, yaw, steering wheel position, speed the steering wheel was turned, pedal position, whether the seat belts were fastened, individual wheel speeds, temperatures to name but a few. There are pages and pages of data available. The issue is understanding it.

That's amazing, so much info on things you would never imagine.

[steveo82]

As MetBlackRat says even an Airbag module can give pretty accurate speeds at time of impact albeit with a hell of a lot calculator button tapping, as it records deceleration speeds so it can be worked out! As with modern ECU's again as already said, they can create a clear picture of the manner of driving immediately before an impact, they simply can be black boxes :-)