Hey everyone.  First off, this site has been a big help thus far with my Felicia.  I got the car a few months ago from my future sister in law and unfortunately it has been nothing but problems.

 

The latest one has me fearing for my safety as I don't know what's wrong.  Here is the whole story.

 

A few weeks ago up on the motorway I got a flat.  My left front tire has seperated from the rim slightly and rapidly deflated. I drove on the flat for maybe 100 meter as I had to slow down from 100kph and cross a couple lanes of traffic to safely pull over.  I threw the full sized spare on and away I went.  The balance felt a bit off, but I expected that as the spare did not match the rest of the tires.  When I got home I decided to just put the winter tires and wheels on as it was nearly november 1 anyway.  It's been hell since then.

 

First off, the balance of the winter tires and wheels felt a bit off.  Not bad but a bit of steering wheel shake at motorway speed so I took it to a shop for a balance.  It was the same afterwards and during the balance the shop informed me that 3 of the wheels were slightly bent and even if the balance them it might not feel perfect.  It didn't so I had them mount the winter tires on the OEM wheels which had been good.  They did this without issue, however the balance still felt very poor.  I took the car to a different shop and they checked the balance and said it was ****, so they rebalanced the wheels for me.  However, it still didn't feel good, so I took it back and asked them to check out the suspension, tires, and wheels.  I had checked the outer tie rod ends on my own and outer CV joint.  I am an American living in Poland and don't have any auto tools here, even a good floor jack, so I did what I could and sadly had to put my fate in the hands of Polish mechanics.

 

During their check they found that both inner cv boots were torn and the joints were shot.  They also said that the outer joints had a lot of play though the boots were ok.  I had the choice to replace just the joints or the entire axle.  They assured me that the axle shafts were solid and straight and didn't need to be replaced, so I saved a bit of $$ and had them replace just all 4 joints.  This did not solve the problem.  

 

When driving over 100kph on the motorway the car shakes in waves.  The vibration stats in the seat or the floor and moves up to the gas pedal and eventually to the steering wheel and then dissipates. It does this in random cycles.  lasting about 10 seconds each but with some variety.  Sometimes it vibrates more, sometimes less, but it always does it in waves over 100.  After about 130kph it is mostly gone.

 

I took the car to a wheel and tire shop expecting that one or more of my wheels were bent, especially the one that I had the flat on.  The lip of the rim has a noticable flat spot.  They tired to bang out what they could but said that 3 of the "good" OEM wheels were bent and there wasn't much they could do.  To add another twist I took it to another wheel and tire shop who were adamant that the dents to the lip were only cosmetic and would not be affecting the ride at all.

 

On Thursday I took the car to the shop one last time to check the rear wheel bearings which I had found to have excessive play in the left side.  The shop reported that the bearings were brand new from a brake job done recently, they were only a couple months ago and looked pristine.  What they did find was that the left rear hub nut was loose causing what felt like excessive rear left bearing play.  They ensured me that the suspension and steering where all in good shape and the car was safe to drive.  The vibration was likely just some bent wheels.

 

On Friday I set off for a long, long drive from Warsaw to Vienna.  Then back to Poland to Lubin (near Wroclaw), and finally back to Warsaw.  About 1800km in 5 days.  Somewhere in the Czech Republic the real problem began.

 

I noticed that the front of the car was making a rumbling sound and very slight rumbling vibration a bit like driivng over rumble strips on the highway, though nowhere near as loud or intense.  It could be felt in the pedal and floor.  It could not be felt in the steering.  The noise/feeling was slight at high speed (110+) and became more intense every time the car came down from a smooth bump.  Not a hard bump but when the car would be pushed down by inertia and gravity coming down from a small hill or mound in the road.  This suggested that it was a suspension problem.  A greater load on the front of the car at this time made the noise/rumble/feeling louder/stronger.  Made sense. 

 

Soon after I noticed that I also began to have problems with acceleration.  When cruising at any speed greater than 80kph in 4th or 5th gear the car would shake violently in the floor/seat if I even though about accelerating.  It was especially bad if going up a hill.  I made it to Vienna thinking about what it could be.  Clutch slipping?  No, the revs were smooth and unwavering.  Ignition system/misfire?  Maybe, but then it wouldn't be linked to the rumbling noise/feeling and I'd like to think the two things are related.

 

Additionally, around the same time I noticed the alignment had gotten quite bad.  When I left Warsaw it was pretty good, though maybe not 100% perfect.  It originally had a very, very slight pull to the right, but almost imperceptible.  Now, however, it pulled pretty strongly to the right, even on a road that had a grade to the left!

 

The following day we were leaving Vienna and the shaking during acceleration had gotten much worse. It now shook most violently in 3rd gear and continued through 4th and 5th, though 3rd was the worst.  When we got to Lubin we had a local mechanic check the car.  After driving it he said his first though was inner CV joint, but they are one week old and don't have much play at all.  The front left has just a tiny bit of play on the Y axis (so up and down away from and toward the ground), but no twisting or movement on the X axis.  Nothing that should be causing the harsh shaking during acceleration we had felt and that he felt.  He noticed that the transmission was leaking.  The seal had recently been replaced but he thinks that a bearing is going back and is affecting the seal of the transmission case.  So there is a bit of an oil leak.  He noticed that the oil was leaking directly onto the read motor/tranny mount and that the rubber was caked in tranny oil and all soft and worn out.  He thought hat perhaps over time the leaking oil had destroyed the mount and the shaking was being caused by the engine/tranny moving about under load.  That afternoon we replaced the mount.  There was absolutely no change in the car's behavior.

 

I'm now back in Warsaw after driving home.  The car has not gotten any worse.  When giving the car any gas in 3rd or 4th gear it shakes violently.  When accelerating past about 2000 rpm in 2nd it starts to shake as well.  It shakes in 5th but it doesn't feel as strong.  Going up a hill in any gear other than 1st results in the shaking.

 

I'm at a loss.  Could it be a bent cv axle?  THey were straight and fine just a week ago.  What would cause one to bent on highway driving over a few hours?  I checked them just now for any cracks and they're fine, though I cannot tell if they are straight.  Could it be something with the ignition system or fuel injecting causing a misfire?  If so, then it must be unrelated to the high speed rumbling feeling and that doesn't seem very satisfying.  My feeling is that as the speed gets greater the shaking increases it's frequency until it eventually becomes that rumbling.  Everything tells me this is a cv joint issue...but they're literally brand new and solid.  This happens to people when they have worn out joints with excessive play.  Mine are new with basically no play.  

 

Please, please help!

Oh and BTW, I should mention that when the shop replaced the cv joints they removed the vibration damper/counterweight from the driveshaft and didn't tell me until I noticed on my own.  I went back and demanded they put it back and got into an argument with them as they insisted it is unnecessary.  Eventually they agreed to find a way to put it back.  Turns out they are liars because they never put it back even though they said they would.  

 

Could this be causing all of these vibrations?  IF so, where can I get a new one?

Edited 11 November, 201411 yr by UBigBobby

So some more information.  The shop put the counterweight back on the shaft today.  THey also tried to track down the cause of the acceleration vibration.  THey think the most likely cause is the inner CV joint, however they are in perfectly good condition.  The removed the axles and inspected them and confirmed that the axles are not bent at all and the actual cv joints are fine.  However they noted that the car's nose is rising an excessive amount when accelerating.  They believe that this excessive rise is causing the inner cv joints to operate at greater than the 15 degree angle they are rated for and this is putting stress on the cv joint tripod and causing the vibration.  They suggested taking the car to a disagnostics inspection shop to have the shocks and struts checked to see if this is causing the excessive nose rise and subsequent shaking.

 

THey also suggested that it could be a problem with the differential, but they don't really know.  The cv joints and axle shafts are perfect and things like wheel bearings, control arm bushing, etc. are all in good shape.

 

Does this sound reasonable?

I was thinking soft engine mounts or bent drive-shafts but you think they've covered that. Maybe someone was careless with the jack when you had the winter tyres put on / balanced.

 

I wonder how confident the mechanics are that they got the counterbalance weight back on properly?

I was thinking soft engine mounts or bent drive-shafts but you think they've covered that. Maybe someone was careless with the jack when you had the winter tyres put on / balanced.

 

I wonder how confident the mechanics are that they got the counterbalance weight back on properly?

 

It's a new one because they chucked out the old one.  I told them they needed to buy me a new one to make up for their ineptitude.  They did.  It's on now.  Isn't making any difference.  

 

Yea, drive shaft is solid and straight.  Joints are brand spanking new, no excessive play in them.  They're solid.  New rear motor mount.  

 

They suggested maybe differential problems but I just don't think so.  Normally a bad differential bearing will give you a whining noise.  I don't have that.  Only the shaking.

If both inner CV joints are removed at the same time, a suatiable dummy shaft has to be inserted into the differential sun wheels, to stop them from falling into the transmission. But surley this can't of happend because you would have no drive or a locked transmission, unless you have just lost a shim. 

• Ask the owner about the history of repairs in transmission, clutch, and running gear areas..How old is the clutch kit?
• Was the car involved in any accident that deformed the front area? Check and align on computer the geometry of the steering & chassis.
• The video below will help a lot. That is an example of diagnosis vs. changing parts randomly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKcgPnJtHL4&hd=1

 

Do not assume anything unless you have proof. So far you were taken advantage of by everybody.

The car has only had 1 owner, my fiancee's family.  It was the family car from 2000-2010.  It was then driven by my future sister-in-law but still maintained by her father.  My sister-in-law lives a couple KM from her parents and the car is still registered in their name.  She has no idea about cars so her father who was quite a gearhead, maintained it for it's entire life until a few months ago where it was given to me and my fiancee.  It has never been in a front end collision and never had any work done to the transmission.  

 

I'll watch that youtube video you suggested.

 

Also, I drove it about 10km today to Auchan to do some shopping and paid close attention to the shaking and did some experimentation.  If I skip 3rd gear, it shakes in 4th, but very little.  If I rev up 2nd gear past about 2000rpm, the shaking starts and continue all the way through third gear.  If I drive through third like a granny I don't get the shaking, but we're talking just feathering the gas pedal to accelerate.  I also noticed that if I don't accelerate through 3rd gear but rather hold it in 3rd at a constant speed the car bucks and lurches like a misfire.  This is making me think that maybe the issue isn't cv joint/axle related but is actually a misfire under load.  It's not a slipping clutch because the rpms do not change during the shaking and I'm thinking cv axle related less and less because the problem mostly disappears in 5th gear with the exception of big hills (so again, heavy load) and vibrating cv joint or axle wouldn't make the car buck and lurch forward.  

 

Anyway, it's about time the spark plugs were changed out anyway, so I'll do that tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.  Hopefully it's not the coilpack as that's damn expensive.

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by UBigBobby

You are making false assumptions on what and how different car parts can fail. That will keep you away from real cause.

For instance, a clutch can fail in many different ways, slipping is just one of them. Springs can break, the lining can crack, pressure plate can get warped, etc. etc. You also said the differential is good because it doesn't whistle. That is another false assumption by simplification.

 

In any case, your last description of 'under load' condition is perfectly consistent with a bad clutch. I am sure you never drove a car with a broken clutch on its last threads or rivets... So unless you come with a clever analysis (see the video mentioned) that could rule out the clutch, my bet is on it.

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by RicardoM

You are making false assumptions on what and how different car parts can fail. That will keep you away from real cause.

For instance, a clutch can fail in many different ways, slipping is just one of them. Springs can break, the lining can crack, pressure plate can get warped, etc. etc. You also said the differential is good because it doesn't whistle. That is another false assumption by simplification.

 

In any case, your last description of 'under load' condition is perfectly consistent with a bad clutch. I am sure you never drove a car with a broken clutch on its last threads or rivets... So unless you come with a clever analysis (see the video mentioned) that could rule out the clutch, my bet is on it.

 

You're right, I haven't.  This is my 6th car but only my first manual.  I am American after all haha.  What are some ways that I could test the clutch?  I only need the car until July when I'm moving back to the US so even if it is the clutch, I'm not fixing it.  However I'd like to know what the problem is to ensure it isn't something dangerous to drive.  Multiple mechanics cannot find the problem but ensure me whatever it is, it's still safe to drive, however how can they know this without pinpointing the problem?

Multiple mechanics cannot find the problem but ensure me whatever it is, it's still safe to drive, however how can they know this without pinpointing the problem?

 

They have to live too, don't they? 99% of mechanics don't repair cars, they change parts on client's expense. It is amazing how people still accept that ripoff system and travel from mechanic to mechanic buying more parts without evidence.

 

You promised to watch the video I pointed. In it your co-national explains how to diagnose a similar fault using knowledge & logic.

They have to live too, don't they? 99% of mechanics don't repair cars, they change parts on client's expense. It is amazing how people still accept that ripoff system and travel from mechanic to mechanic buying more parts without evidence.

 

You promised to watch the video I pointed. In it your co-national explains how to diagnose a similar fault using knowledge & logic.

 

 

 

I watched the video immediately after I read your post.  I do not have the tools here in Poland to remove the axles. My tools, jack, jack stands, etc. are back in the US.  I suppose I could buy new.  Not to mention that I cannot remove both axles and run the car.  I need you to try and remember that I'm a temporary expat here.  I have no tools, no garage, nothing.  I'm posting here because multiple mechanics have failed me and I'd like to try and get some ideas.  I understand that the way suggested in that video is best but it' also unrealistic both for this car and for my level of expertise and equipment.

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by UBigBobby

Unrealistic? It is you who expects to diagnose & fix a car that 'shakes violently' with no tools... I understand that the car had been maintained by the 'gearhead' owner (or ex-owner). You may feel appropriate to pay him a visit because he should know the car inside out. Or you could go back to those guys that have tools (not sure about knowledge) and let them change more parts hoping for a miracle. Maybe it is as you guess, a bad ignition pack. Or fuel starvation (low pressure from bad pump or pressure regulator?). But if I were you I wouldn't drive the car above 25mph as a precaution...

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by RicardoM

Unrealistic? It is you who expects to diagnose & fix a car that 'shakes violently' with no tools... I understand that the car had been maintained by the 'gearhead' owner (or ex-owner). You may feel appropriate to pay him a visit because he should know the car inside out. Or you could go back to those guys that have tools (not sure about knowledge) and let them change more parts hoping for a miracle. Maybe it is as you guess, a bad ignition pack. Or fuel starvation (low pressure from bad pump or pressure regulator?). But if I were you I wouldn't drive the car above 25mph as a precaution...

 

I appreciate your opinion Ricardo.  I don't expect a miracle or for someone here to magically fix my problem.  I'm just looking for ideas that I can can either try and diagnose myself if it is rather simple or at least take to a decent mechanic and give him a few ideas and see what he comes up with.  I'm at the point where I am not randomly replacing parts.  I did that only with the engine mount which cost less than $10, so not much to worry about.  I'm just looking for suggestions of things to check out, or have checked out because the mechanics I've gone to haven't been very interested in actually finding the problem.  I don't have the tools or knowledge to do their job for them as many people here do.  However if they aren't willing to put in the effort to really diagnose the issue at least I can take the car to them with some ideas to specifically check.  

 

I paid close attention to the vehicle's behavior to and from work today which is about 35km each way, part motorway and part normal roads.  The jerking or shaking is strongest in 3rd gear or when flooring it in 5th on the motorway.  It sometimes happens in 2nd at higher rpms if I'm aggressive.  However it doesn't always happen, especially when I'm downshifting and then accelerating.  For example, coming off the motorway, I downshift from 5th to 4th and then down to third and then begin to accelerate from the bottom end of 3rd gear and about 1/2 the time I don't get any shaking or jerking at all, all the way through the gears back up to 5th.  From a dead stop 1st gear is fine, and then about 50% of the time I get shaking above about 3000 rpm in 2nd if I really wind it out, and then probably 90% of the time I get the shakes/jerks all the way through 3rd gear.  Once in 4th the shake is much less but usually still there up to about 2500 rpms where it disappears.  It isn't in 5th at all accept for flooring it to gain speed on the motorway.  So I don't always get it, I just usually do.  

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by UBigBobby