VRS squashy brakes?

[Loose Hand Luke]

Hi all, before anyone moans I've not used the search function, I have done, and its not answered my question.

Just to start off, I think the brakes on my 55 plate vrs have gotten worse.

I had to give my car to my wife to drive for about the last 8 months. Since then I've been driving daily in my pug 309.

My wife has just bought an 03 seat leon cupra R so I've got my vrs back.

Now, I know you can't easily cross compare the leon with its Brembos to the Fabia, but my question is about pedal FEEL.

Now I'm back in the fabia, its brakes feel almost worse than my 309's!!!

So I've done this list:

Bled the brakes

Changed the brake fluid and bled

Changed the pads

Deglazed the discs

Changed the rear calipers (handbrake was sticky) and bled the brakes

Changed the fluid again and bled

Changed the master cylinder and bled...

Am still left with poor brakes compared to how they used to feel.

The cupra pedal moves about an inch and is "hard"

The Fabia pedal moves halfway down before any "feel" comes back. If you maintain pressure, the pedal slowly sinks!!!

There's no leak in the system and the car still stops and holds on the footbrake, but I can't understand how its gotten so bad?

Does anyone else have any ideas?

[Vinayk]

When did you do a brake change (pads+disk)? If less than 500 miles then your brakes won't be that good it need to bed in to get full performance

[theezenutz]

Perhaps that's just how it is. Mine doesn't sound that dis-similar to yours and the brakes are fine no mention of anything after it's MOT today. I actually like a bit of pedal travel as i'm better able to regulate it where as my boss used to have a Passat estate and I absolutely hated the brakes, (my uncles Focus was the same) soon as you touch the brakes your headbutting the windscreen.

 

Other than that their isn't much to do with the braking system that you haven't changed apart from Servo and ABS module. It may have a bit of air trapped in the ABS pump if it does you'll need to use vcds to bleed that.

Edited 1 December, 2014 by theezenutz

[Loose Hand Luke]

Cheers guys.

Pads have over 1000 miles on them now.

Might have to look into air in abs unit.

What's vcds? Some sort of vacuum bleeding tool?

I've only bled the system the "old school" way with pipe, spanner and wife on foot pedal :-P

There must be a way of making the pedal feel more pronounced like the Leon? Some part of the system must be the "spongy bit" ???

[TMB]

What's vcds? Some sort of vacuum bleeding tool?

 

 

VW diagnostic software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAG-COM

 

 

It does sound like something's not right with your brakes. I have the base model Fabia and the brakes are firm and reasonably powerful, not like you describe at all.

[Benjiman]

The pedal 'creep' when maintaining pressure is normal, IIRC something to do with the servo.  Also, apparantly not good for the braking system either to keep doing it.  Mine had weird brake isues too, in that it needed bleeding more often than I would have liked, found minor issues, but never really got to the bottom of it.  Now got a cupra with AMAZING brakes!

[Loose Hand Luke]

Yeah the cupra is cracking.

There has to be an answer to this somewhere. I wonder if its a servo issue?

Bet they're pricey though!

[LeezoG]

Mines the same 05 Fab VRS, if I push the brake pedal down and keep foot on it, it seems real squishy and pedal travels quite far down and slow but steady pace. If i pump it goes rock solid. Brakes work fine for me tho, Just feels a bit dodge. But after hurtling towards a bus last night.....they do work

[KenONeill]

The last time I posted in a Fabia spongy brakes thread, the OP discovered trapped air at the tops of the rear calipers that no bleeding had moved.

[rhauri]

Interesting comments.

 

Got to bare in mind its all so subjective based on what else we have driven.

 

I've changed calipers on my S2000's and my Fabia, and that has always introduced a bit of air. So a wee drive, and a re-bleed will sort that out.

 

I then changed my brake fluid in the S2 for ATE Blue, using the gravity method, so not touching the pedal at all - and that got rid of all spongey feel completely.

 

So since the S2 brakes we rock hard, firm and capable.

 

Then I got my vRS, and these things are so over-servo'd its nuts! As a result, there isn't much feel in them so its hard to modulate.

 

I changed my rear sticking caliper, and as usual, a bit of air still in the caliper, a bit spongey, a re-bleed and all good - using the gravity method.

 

I can't help but think you've still got a bit of air in your system somewhere, as that spongey feel is usually a result of water or air in the system being compressed. A gravity bleed takes alot more time, but I feel more safe in the knowledge that any air/water is certain you work its way out with the old fluid.

 

Another neat trick of getting air out of the system is using a breaker bar, or similar, forcing the brake pedal to be 'On' for at least overnight, prefereably 24 hours. You may have to disconnect your battery so not to drain it of charge (Brake lights). You'll jump into the car the next day and should have a more firm pedal.

 

Maybe give it a go?

Edited 2 December, 2014 by rhauri

[coskev]

The VRS calipers using a single piston and sliders will never have the same feel as any 4-pot calipers.

Due to the totally different workings of the calipers

[Ryanfsr]

Don't know if you've read through my post a week or so back, but i had a similar issue when I removed my rear calipers to replace the seals.

 

When it came to bleeding the brakes back up I used the Gunsons Eezibleed setup. It all appeared fine as there was no air coming from either of the calipers. Removed the Eezibleed setup; went to pump the pedals and although the brakes were quite firm the pedal travel was considerably longer than normal.

 

Finally managed to sort it though by rigging up the Eezibleed setup again. Got someone to keep an eye on the fluid level in the Eezibleed bottle, and whilst it was pushing fluid through I removed the rear calipers from their carriers and shook them/ rotated them around. Loads more air came out, so I can only think that air was trapped behind the piston and within the handbrake mechanism. Pedal feels normal now!

[Loose Hand Luke]

Cool thanks guys.

I think I'll go over it all again and re-check it.

I'll also take the calipers off when I bleed them and tilt them so air can travel upwards and out.

Was chatting to my friend at Skoda today and we checked the parts listing for the servo.

Turns out Skoda updated the servo design of replacement units in 2012.

Must have been a good reason for the change seeing as its technically an "old" model now?