Cold Starting Issues - Running out of ideas!

[IngusSeflers]

I was only asking for your personal opinion as you ' seem ' clued on this engine but if you'd rather me use Google then, Google it is.

Nifty little link

Yeah,that is the only logical explanation for me,studying the chart, I see a place where could be leaking fuel (oil and air suction). Note in red. Metal warms up, it expands and oil/air suction is stopped and the engine can be started without any problems. As already mentioned freelanderman ,diesel engine running on oil with no problems only smoked more, but the air is another story. The oil through fuel return pipe from injector/s enters the fuel filter...

And if you continue to subvert the possible theories which there have been out of my hand, I'll be quiet and just watching your 'story' .  :p

 

[IngusSeflers]

Woah there, an injector can leak.....putting diesel into the engine oil, but not putting oil into the fuel lines....check out your link!

 

Could be the faulty tandem pump, was the filter changed when the tandem pump was changed?

 

Maybe (thinking out loud) the faulty tandem pump has been returning  engine oil to tank (via the leak off piping)....???

Explain me please how oil can get tandem pump 

Edited 21 February, 2015 by IngusSeflers

[xman]

Nice picture, the bearing bridge is lubricated by engine oil pressure feed. From here into the tandem pump if the seals havent been properly located. There is a vacuum port for the fuel input under that cover, .

I cant agree with your injector hypothesis. There is no oil in a unit injector only high pressure fuel

Lets see what the dealer says....

Edited 21 February, 2015 by xman

[IngusSeflers]

Nice picture, the bearing bridge is lubricated by engine oil pressure feed. From here into the tandem pump if the seals havent been properly located. There is a vacuum port for the fuel input under that cover, .

I cant agree with your injector hypothesis. There is no oil in a unit injector only high pressure fuel

Lets see what the dealer says....

Thanks

I know that in Injector is no oil...but oil can access solenoid if not tight?   

You'r right,let's see what dealer says!

[freelanderman]

Thats new to me, by what route did the oil get into the fuel?

 

As far as I can see, fuel/air can leak at the O ring interface into the top side of the head, the fuel then mixes with the oil in the head and dilutes the sump oil.

 

IIRC the tandem pump has been changed. The tandem pump is run off the camshaft. If the o ring/seal on the camshaft end between the camcover and tandem pump is missing or damaged, engine oil could be pumped from the cam bearing down the shaft into the low pressure side - the side that draws fuel. From there, fuel is returned (probably to tank) from the pressure regulator.

 

you'll not start an cold engine easily on engine oil due to its cetane rating flash point etc,

High mileage pd engines can suffer from thr the injector tube in the head wearing and going oval allowing combustion gases with engine oil to get past the lower seal on the injector, this also results in the lowering of the compression resulting in hard starting.

[Minimoke]

Has the camshaft posistion sensor been tested, failure of this can cause very slow starting.

Has this been done?

 

I had exactly the same starting symptoms on my Octy2 PD2.0.

 

It was a duff camshaft position sensor. Did not thrown ANY fault codes, but the garage suspected what was causing it and swapped it.  Once it was replaced it started first time every time.   

[BlueVRSTom]

Has this been done?

I had exactly the same starting symptoms on my Octy2 PD2.0.

It was a duff camshaft position sensor. Did not thrown ANY fault codes, but the garage suspected what was causing it and swapped it. Once it was replaced it started first time every time.

My CPS has not been changed or tested however considering there is loads of oil in my fuel filter we'll sort that first.

[IngusSeflers]

High mileage pd engines can suffer from thr the injector tube in the head wearing and going oval allowing combustion gases with engine oil to get past the lower seal on the injector, this also results in the lowering of the compression resulting in hard starting.

At the moment we are investigating 'oil in fuel filter' case but low compression is our next

[freelanderman]

At the moment we are investigating 'oil in fuel filter' case but low compression is our next

Very interesting fault, appreciate it is worrying and costly for the owner, but oil in the fuel system will result in a bad burn and could be putting carbon on the valve seats so compression needs to be born in mind. Cant understand how oil contaminated fuel wasnt picked up when the tandem pump was changed.

[alberg]

I did mentioned that friends fabia had issue and the fuel filter flooded with oil, rings aren't correct

[Insect_repellent:)]

My friend has a 2008 superb with 2.0TDI PD engine (140HP). It does exactly the same thing as OPs car, but if he parks it on a slope, with nose facing down, then the car can be parked this way for days and start without any problems. If the car is left with rear facing down, it's almost impossible to start it. And another thing-> lower the fuel level in the tank is, bigger the starting problems are.  

[xman]

Instead of hijacking this thread, please start another,...

My friend has a 2008 superb with 2.0TDI PD engine (140HP). It does exactly the same thing as OPs car, but if he parks it on a slope, with nose facing down, then the car can be parked this way for days and start without any problems. If the car is left with rear facing down, it's almost impossible to start it. And another thing-> lower the fuel level in the tank is, bigger the starting problems are.

Check the o rings on the fuel filters are all there, correctly located and not damaged. Also check the electric lift pump in the tank is working. Edited 23 February, 2015 by xman

[Insect_repellent:)]

Instead of hijacking this thread, please start another,...

Check the o rings on the fuel filters are all there, correctly located and not damaged. Also check the electric lift pump in the tank is working.

 

Ok, thanks! Sorry for hijacking:)

Edited 25 February, 2015 by Insect_repellent:)

[alberg]

Any news on This

[BlueVRSTom]

Any news on This

I've got lots of oil in my fuel filter. It goes to the main dealer this Saturday and they are having it until it's fixed. We suspect O - rings.

They are then going to cleanse the fuel system of all oil and then hopefully this awful problem is sorted.

[BlueVRSTom]

Car has gone to the dealers today. Courtesy car picked up which is a nice 1.2 petrol Fabia 64 plate, a big downgrade to performance compared to the vRS but still a nice car and it starts first time every time

So the dealers will ring and update me during the week as to what is going on with my car. I hope to pick the car up this Friday or Saturday

I also left a note in the car and on the maintenance sheet not to wash the car as I'm a tad paranoid when it comes to other people washing my P&D lol.

Shall update this when necessary

[Sad555]

Is there an update or happy ending to this tale of woe?

[BlueVRSTom]

Is there an update or happy ending to this tale of woe?

It's still in the main dealers, I hopefully get it back this Friday. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

They are taking the injectors out and testing them and while they do that they are going to replace the O - Rings which I believe have never been changed.

If that doesn't work they aren't to sure what else to suggest.

Will have an answer by Friday ( probably before )

[freelanderman]

Hi,

Your very first post said the injecter seals had been replaced.

[IngusSeflers]

Hi,

Your very first post said the injecter seals had been replaced.

BTW yes... you'r right

[BlueVRSTom]

Hi,

Your very first post said the injecter seals had been replaced.

Your correct! On ringing up the garage to confirm what had been done I was told just the injectors were replaced not the seals.

On my first post I just assumed as I thought they would go hand in hand. Almost like cam belt and water pump.

My bad guys.

[alberg]

"My friend on his fabia 1.4tdi had similar issue. The injector o-ring were changed as pressure was escaping. He noticed this more from half tank down, with time it got worse as more time left without running,

The fuel filter was changed as with time oil appeared inside filter as fuel returned. Each o-ring kit costed less than 20€. "

Edited 4 March, 2015 by alberg

[BlueVRSTom]

Lastest update and it's awful news - I'll try to get my point across as clear as possible however its a lot easier hearing it on the phone than it is typing the problem on here so bare with me.

The injectors have all been scored down to loose fitment, they looked into the seals and said new ones will not solve the problem as a whole has been bored in each of the seals.

If they put new seals in oil and fuel will still mix and the injectors will still be loose. Basically my cyclinder head is to blame as the hole that has been created is bigger than the seals can take.

The main dealers are closed Friday, Sat and Sun for a promotional weekend but they will give me a quote Monday.

It's looking like;

- new cyclinder head

- new injectors + seals

- new fuel filter

- fuel system cleanse

- possibly a new in tank lift pump if it's been damaged.

I'll apply for a morgage now :(

[Guest]

I'm not quite au fait with the precise details but surely they could replace your parts with some kind of high temperature sealant so you could continue to use it as is.

If and when any further work on those parts was required in future and the sealant was an issue then at least you've postponed the inevitable otherwise you are just spending big money to make it as new and not less money to make it work and it may well work for 1000's of miles, injector work isn't a common job.

Kinda like the Mr Muscle turbo cleaning procedure, not a dealer endorsed method but it works for many and is a damn sight cheaper!

I'd get my head together with a good wrench and see if it's doable.

Adapt, improvise, overcome.

[xman]

I'm finding this hard to understand. How was this missed when new seals were fitted? Or did the fitter not fasten the injectors correctly? I just can't visualise the damage you describe.

I'd be wanting a second opinion and pointing a finger of blame somewhere.