1.2 or 1.4tsi

[villa1]

Hi Folks. Iv'e already posted this in the mk11 forum but was rightly informed that it should be here.

 

The time has come to retire the Vrs (too bumpy a ride and 4 yrs old)

I have been looking at a new elegance and I'm quite impressed. The problem  i have is i'm undecided on whether to go and change fuel with the 1.2 or 1.4 tsi.

I have driven the 1.2 and it is very impressive with plenty of go, not quite vrs like but not bad either. The salesman informed me that they sell very few 1.4s as they are not that popular and there was not one available to test drive,  I would like the extra power of the 1.4 but does it warrant a near 1700 euro extra on the 1.2.  Any advice on engines, fuel consumption etc would be appreciated.

Note: I inquired about the 1.4 150hp ACTengine (VW, Seat, Audi) but the salesman had not heard of it!!

Oh and the bumpy ride is mainly attributed to the horrible Irish roads. 

[Guest Cossiecol]

I would have thought the 1.4 would be better to drive than the 1.2, but I have nothing to base that on other than my thinking......which can (from time to time) be a little messed up

 

On a serious note though, I would EXPECT the 1.4 to have better pulling power for getting up to speed and overtaking than the 1.2, it will also not need to work as hard. 

[ednmra]

Last October I changed from petrol, manual Mk.2 1.8TSi I'd had for 6 years to Mk. 3 1.4TSi. I thought I would bemoan the lesser power but it is hardly noticeable. The 1.8 was a really great car and I thought I'd really miss it but the 1.4 feels the same but more "refined".  Smoother, quieter.

 

If you are coming down from a vRS I would have thought only the 1.4 TSi would do. Get a test drive in one if you possibly can before going for a 1.2

Edited 15 January, 2015 by ednmra

[pipsyp]

We dont get the option of the 1.2 in Elegance spec in the UK, only SE (Ambition) and below.

I've not driven either but having driven a previous gen 1.2 TSi in a Fabia (which frankly wouldnt be leaps and bounds lighter than an new Octavia as the Mk2 Fabia is quite a heavy little car) and was v impressed.

Coming from a Mk2 vRS (assuming its a diesel and not a petrol) you'll definitely notice the performance difference; whereas a 1.4 TSi despite the power deficit is probably as quick if perhaps not slightly quicker than a 170 CR vRS, but would need to be worked a bit harder.

Personally I think the additional 1700 euros would be pretty well spent myself as whilst the 1.2 is exceptional for such a small powerplant and powering an O3 makes for a car that you would not consider slow the 1.4 will be considerably quicker still and likely cost very little more to run.

[conn]

For notes there are 2 versions of 1.2 TSI - 63 kW and 77 kW.

 

I have driven the 63 kW manual version when my 1.8 DSG was in for repairs.

 

I would say if you only drive in the city you will find 1.2 satisfying, but keep in mind you have to give it some rpm to get the job done (do not go below 1800 rpm until cruise speed). Compared to my 1.8 pulling @1500 rpm is day and night.

 

On the highway driving if you are not planning to overtake some lorries, take the 1.2. I had 3 adults and 2 children total in the car + some stuff in the back. Had open road ahead with a lorry to be overtaken. Popped into 3rd, floored it, guess what - it does not want to move... Yes I know I am spoiled by my 1.8, but still.

 

As far as real world consumption goes I did 5.0 L/100km on that 1.2 compared to my 1.8 which does 5.5-6.0 regularily.

 

So for a little table.

1.2 (63kW), 1.2 (77kW), 1.4 (103kW)

Highway

4.4 / 4.4 / 4.6 L/100km

Urban

6.5 / 5.9 / 6.5 L/100km

 

0-100 km/h

12.0 / 10.3 / 8.4 seconds

 

May be, just may be that 77 kW version is that much better, since it has ~20% more power. But the point remains - I said to myself, if anyone asks 1.2 vs 1.4 I would suggest 1.4. So my two cents are on the 1.4 - it should be worth it.

 

 

/Edit extra

I would say it is possible to get the factory 4.8 L/100km for my 1.8 if I drive alone, half tank, no AC, 205mm rims (riding 225), heated up engine and cruising @ 85 km/h. Probably have to take a dump before going, but hey, it might heat up the engine in the mean time :-D

Edited 15 January, 2015 by conn

[V6Jules]

I had a 1.2 rapid as a courtesy car while my vrs was in for work and although it wasn't slow I achieved the same mpg on my journey to work in the 1.2 as my vrs! I'm guessing as it had to work much harder to drive at my preferred pace. 35mpg was the achieved economy

I'd hazzard a guess that the 1.4 would be a better balanced car

[Mardu]

I had a 1.2 rapid as a courtesy car while my vrs was in for work and although it wasn't slow I achieved the same mpg on my journey to work in the 1.2 as my vrs! I'm guessing as it had to work much harder to drive at my preferred pace. 35mpg was the achieved economy

I'd hazzard a guess that the 1.4 would be a better balanced car

The Rapid is not as fuel efficient as Octavias are when you look at the official figures.

[Gerrycan]

Conn's excellent summary excludes one important statistic and that is the torque each engine produces.

The 1.2tsi is 175NM and the 1.4tsi is 250NM which is about 40% more and why there is such a large difference in the relative acceleration figures.

 

The 250nm is available from 1500 to 3500 revs which is usual rev range most people use for day to day driving and so it will be much more responsive and accelerates well for overtaking in almost any gear.

With my 1.4tsi I can easily achieve the 6.5l/100 claim in urban driving with a little care but the highway claim is optimistic as 4.6l/100 represents cruising at about 85/90 kph. Cruising at 110 kph I get 5.6l/100 which I still think is pretty good. That is with flat roads, no a/c, no head or tailwind, no tail-gating.

The 1.2 would possibly match it but would have nowhere near the performance potential especially if you are carrying any load.

[ednmra]

My dashboard petrol consumption read out is saying a bit over 35 mpg from new at present and nearly every mile I've done has been short hops around town, so not great for consumption.

Still only done about 1100 miles from new too.

As my 1.8 used to get mid forties on long smooth trips I reckon the 1.4 will get over 50 mpg at some point (for just those long trips I mean.)

[iriches]

I've just got a 10-month old 1.4TSI Elegance estate with manual transmission as a replacement for my aging Mk1 1.9TDI Elegance hatch.

 

I didn't try the 1.2 TSI - as I wanted Elegance trim - but the 1.4 TSI was streets ahead of the 1.6 TDI that I also tried for refinement and drive-ability.  The torque of the engine makes it very relaxing to drive, but it also has plenty of go if you need it. 

 

So far I've got 45-47mpg on my daily commute, in conditions where my old 1.9 TDI would have been doing around 55 mpg.  This is about a 4 mile crawl to get out of one town, 10 mile A-road cruise at 50-60mph then 6 miles through Milton Keynes roundabouts to the office.  The 1.3 Felicia I had years ago would manage worse than this - but then I did tend to have to drive it pretty hard to keep up with traffic!

 

For the refinement and performance I'm pretty happy with the fuel consumption.

Edited 15 January, 2015 by iriches

[conn]

Gerrycan, you got me :-D Was thinking about the torque later on, but the post could not be edited any more.

 

But you just can't look at the torque only, since 1.8TSI has 250Nm as well. Yes 1.4 range is only 1500-3500 rpm vs 1.8 has 1250-5000 (I can say that my bum dyno feels pulling after around 1400/1500 or so), but are you saying these cars pull the same on the range of 1500-3500 rpm? 1.8 gets the advantage after 3500 rpm?

 

Either way I like the 1.4 figures - was close of getting that one, but in the end really loved that 132kW roar after 5000 rpm (yes it has some roar under the bonnet).

 

/Edit

Speaking of trim. Iriches, are you sure you are looking at the stronger version of 1.2 TSI? 77kW one should get the Elegance version - at least they get in Estonia... The 63kW only gets Ambition as top level.

Edited 15 January, 2015 by conn

[iriches]

Speaking of trim. Iriches, are you sure you are looking at the stronger version of 1.2 TSI? 77kW one should get the Elegance version - at least they get in Estonia... The 63kW only gets Ambition as top level.

 

In the UK, we only get the 105 PS / 77kW 1.2 TSI.  This is only available in the two lower trim levels, called S and SE in the UK.  

 

If you want Elegance trim in the UK, you need to go up to the 1.4 TSI if you want petrol.  This is 140PS / 103kW.  That's the car I have.

[pipsyp]

If you do a few miles and/or are particularly economy minded do not for one minute discount the 2.0 150 TDi.

From experience its not yet managed to get anywhere near its quoted combined average but will do 40-odd MPG all day long no matter how its driven and performance that overall matches if not slightly betters (in terms of outright mid-range shove) the 1.4.

The issue with the TSI engines are that whilst they are capable of spectacular economy if driven with some level of restraint if you really use the power you'll get quite poor MPG returns as a consequence.

For example my 180hp 1.4 TSi supposedly capable of 45mpg never bettered 32mpg long term and it wasnt ragged silly all the time, in fact it was driven very sensibly most of the time being wifes car.

Edited 15 January, 2015 by pipsyp

[V6Jules]

The Rapid is not as fuel efficient as Octavias are when you look at the official figures.

Strange for a smaller car. Guessing its lighter than an octy too.

[fastestlouigie]

Strange for a smaller car. Guessing its lighter than an octy too.

Only 55kg difference between the Rapid 1.2 105ps and the equivalent Octavia. The Octavia gets all the nifty MQB technology/research, which is why I suspect it's more fuel efficient.

[villa1]

Hi Folks. Thank for your replies so far 

Talking to a dealer today it now appears that there are little or no 1.4tsi's sold here in Ireland and he advised against ordering one as it may be difficult to shift later on.

He then advised me to look at the 1.6 diesel as he said that this would be easier to sell on than a 1.2tsi. Confusion.

Maybe I should bear the bad roads and hang on to the Vrs until it dies.

It is smashing motor except for the constant jarring on Irish roads. 

[sos80]

I' ve test drove both 1.2 and 1.4 tsi's here in Greece as well as the 1.6 diesel. the 1.2 and the 1.6have the same outcome with a different way of delivering power but the 1.4 is simply a gem. very torkey, quiet and efficient. consumption in the 1.2 was 8,2 litres /100klm and in the 1.4 7,6/100klm the diesel had 6,7 but we fell in heavy traffic during the test drive. I ordered the 1.4 hatch, manual, in cappuccino beige  as a private buy in elegance trim, which is fitted with 17'' alloys in teron design-i could also opt for denom.the extras i fitted were bi-xenons with afs, the 3 spoke wheel and the 4 year warranty or 80.000klm. it should be noted that lane assist and cruise control are not given as standard even in the elegance trim. to sum up, I truly believe that the 1.4 is by far a must have if unless you're  doing mega miles! 

[Minimoke]

Hi Folks. Thank for your replies so far

Talking to a dealer today it now appears that there are little or no 1.4tsi's sold here in Ireland and he advised against ordering one as it may be difficult to shift later on.

He then advised me to look at the 1.6 diesel as he said that this would be easier to sell on than a 1.2tsi. Confusion.

Maybe I should bear the bad roads and hang on to the Vrs until it dies.

It is smashing motor except for the constant jarring on Irish roads.

....and you are relying on the advice of a salesman who has never heard of the ACT version of the engine in the VW?

You have not said what mileage you do or driving conditions you expect (ie lots if miles on a motorway or stop/start around town). This will have an influence on the diesel v petrol question.

I went back to petrol as my mileage dropped significantly when I retired. I also did not want a diesel with a DPF under any circumstances.

I went for the 1.4 with DSG and have not regretted it (previously 2.0TDI DSG).

[philwoodphoto]

Love my 1.4 dsg. Have driven several other brands and size of diesels and a few petrols (like vauxhalls awful 1.2 and not too bad 1.4T). Agree that what your major use will be can factor in the petrol/diesel choice. Have you looked at what is available on autotrader (or equivalent)? This can give a guide as to how popular the 1.2 is. I don't think you'd regret the 1.4, get a drive in one if you can. I came from a 11 year old A6 sport diesel which had a bad ride, the O3 in Elegance trim is a nice ride, fine for me, but I don't regularly chuck it around twisty country roads, must be getting old!

Edited 15 January, 2015 by philwoodphoto

[villa1]

....and you are relying on the advice of a salesman who has never heard of the ACT version of the engine in the VW?

You have not said what mileage you do or driving conditions you expect (ie lots if miles on a motorway or stop/start around town). This will have an influence on the diesel v petrol question.

I went back to petrol as my mileage dropped significantly when I retired. I also did not want a diesel with a DPF under any circumstances.

I went for the 1.4 with DSG and have not regretted it (previously 2.0TDI DSG).

Yes your right i forgot to mention my mileage and driving pattern. I do approx 10K miles a year with a mixture of urban/rural driving. I have checked on car sites here and the 1.4 is not to be had in any octavia guise. There are 1.2s for sale but the 1.6d is a lot more popular (It was drummed into us irish that the diesel was the only way to go!! Diesel fuel is also cheaper to buy at the pumps than petrol). I could order a 1.4 but i'm worried that  I would not be able to sell it later on. Two skoda salesman have informed me that they have never sold a 1.4tsi and i'll have a job trying to find one to test drive.I'm also worried that dropping down to a 1.2tsi from a diesel Vrs will be too much of a fall.

[conn]

So draw your conclusions - get 1.8 TSI But think about it yourself for a second. Take a good look at the 1.2 TSI market. Take your best pick and imagine it being 1.4 - would you want this one more or would you take 1.2 instead (both being with the same level of equipment, milage etc)?

 

For notes I sold my 2.0 Mazda 3 GT Aero considerably more compared to 1.6 versions. There are very few 2.0 Mazda 3's around here, but I still managed to sell it in one month, well yes I made my research and had my eye on the market for few months. I was asking 6 000 EUR, sold for 5 500 EUR, but on the other hand 3 other cars were in there for months. I even looked at the adds after 3 months or so after selling and they were still there for 7 000 EUR. Compared to 1.6 versions which went for like 4 000 - 5 000 EUR It is really the price - if the price is right, it will go.

 

Here is an example:

* Mazda 3 adds over 100kW (11 cars including 2 MPS versions 191kW)

http://www.auto24.ee/kasutatud/nimekiri.php?bn=2&a=100&aj=&b=6&bw=258&k1=100&ae=2&af=50&ag=0&ag=1&otsi=otsi

* Mazda 3 adds under 100kW (49 cars)

http://www.auto24.ee/kasutatud/nimekiri.php?bn=2&a=100&aj=&b=6&bw=258&k2=100&ae=2&af=50&ag=0&ag=1&otsi=otsi

 

I would not worry that much on the resale - worst case you just have to sell it at the same price as 1.2 ones. Best case, you will get a little roughly half back you had to invest getting a stronger engine (ie 2 000 EUR initially will net you back 1 000 EUR after 5 years over 1.2).

 

/Edit

One more thing. When I was swapping into Octavia 3 I was offered 3 500 from my Skoda dealer. I said, screw it, I will sell it myself and got 5 500 EUR, could have gotten 6 000 if waited a little while longer, but at that point I did not care about the 500, since I wanted to make 2 trips - one of which into Alps and the other into Egypt or something.

Edited 15 January, 2015 by conn

[Dempsek]

Try contacting Skoda Ireland to see if you can test drive a 1.4TSI, I actually think it's the sleeper in the mix - then again I would.

 

You are boarderline diesel, the 1,6 TDI will feel very slow the 2.0TDI will feel more like your VRS.

 

Dealers will always try and find a way to get you to buy the car that gives them the best deal and again at the time of trade in the best price for them.

 

Sometimes rarity works for you when it comes to selling on.

[Gerrycan]

 

But you just can't look at the torque only, since 1.8TSI has 250Nm as well. Yes 1.4 range is only 1500-3500 rpm vs 1.8 has 1250-5000 (I can say that my bum dyno feels pulling after around 1400/1500 or so), but are you saying these cars pull the same on the range of 1500-3500 rpm? 1.8 gets the advantage after 3500 rpm?

 

Either way I like the 1.4 figures - was close of getting that one, but in the end really loved that 132kW roar after 5000 rpm (yes it has some roar under the bonnet).

 

 

I think that both the 1.4tsi and 1.8tsi are nominally limited to 250Nm for the optional 7speed DSG max rating, but yes the 1.8 produces the torque over a greater rev range (hence the higher power output) than the 1.4 and so is about a second faster to 100kph.

 

Both engines can be mapped for far greater outputs of course but after migrating from a 1.9d Octavia 2 this one seems like a 'sports car' to me anyway as it is much lighter and at least 3 seconds quicker to 100kph than its Octavia 2 1.9D predecessor  .

In Australia the 1.4tsi is far cheaper than the higher spec 1.8tsi and the diesel models available here. Plus my driving environment did not suit a DPF diesel. Plus there is no government incentives for buying a diesel (tax or otherwise). Plus the max Australian speed limit is a very heavily policed 110kph (nominal) so the 1.4tsi  was a no brainer choice for me in Aus.

I appreciate that other countries available options, environments and personal needs/desires are all different though.

[BA Baracus]

If the stealer says the 1.2 model is very popular then come trade in time you won't get a great price because supply chain is awash with them - supply and demand.

Sounds like you want the 1.4 which will offer a more relaxed drive over 10,000 miles.

[conn]

Plus the max Australian speed limit is a very heavily policed 110kph (nominal) so the 1.4tsi  was a no brainer choice for me in Aus.

I appreciate that other countries available options, environments and personal needs/desires are all different though.

Well we have 90 and 110 limits with patrolls + speedtraps on some roads, but I like the power when I need it ;-) As I said it was a close call 1.4 or 1.8 (power and wind shield heating made me get 1.8 in the end). Even considered vRS . Now my heart is bleeding a bit for not waiting 1 year to get the new Scout 1.8 4x4 DSG (or stronger 2.0 diesel engine).

 

Yes I am a bit of a petrolhead - guilty as charged.