Rear Tailgate Wiring Fail

[oilfiredup]

Just encountered a tailgate lock malfunction and had to remove the entire contents of the boot to release the Tailgate manually. On investigation the switch and solenoid check out OK  then discovered the rear wiring loom where it traverses from car body to tailgate in the upper left corner has broken wires inside the rubber shroud. 1 broken (the lock) 1 about to break and 2 further wires showing broken insulation to expose the stranded copper. (I'm guessing these will be the heated screen as they are much larger gauge wires) Now the solution is to remove the inner trim in the rear door pillar and splice some new wires from there up through the pillar, through the shroud, and down the tailgate to splice back in. 

 

Questions: Who pays?  It's 4 years 3 months old done 42k miles and has full dealer service history and this is a mechanical failure inside a flexible shroud that is designed to allow the tailgate to be opened whilst protecting the wiring and providing safe transit for the aforementioned wires. 

 

All replies/opinions appreciated. 

 

Initial response ....normal wear and tear is not covered...are they having a laugh or what?

[dmz]

Same issue here with lock failure on my 08 fab Estate, one wire totally snapped that I can see in the rubber tubing, unknown if any others have gone at this point. Going to get some quotes for repair, but I'm willing to add my 2 penneth if it helps with SUK, this shouldn't fail but I suppose that it depends on how often the tailgate is used.

Edited 8 March, 2015 by dmz

[Immelmann]

It is a poor life span isnt it. Still from the sounds of it it isnt too bad a repair job, just solder some new wires in and some shrink wrap.

[dmz]

It's understandable why is gone, copper only withstands so many flexes. Interestingly there is a repair kit for the 6y variant ggl: SenCom® 8882310

Wonder if vag do a kit for the 5j variant...

Repair wouldn't be too bad if it didn't involve removing the headliner & repulling wires thru the boot framework, simple enough but time consuming.

[oilfiredup]

DMZ..Sencom SKU 888913 available from their German website at 58.67 euros plus shipping says it's for the 5J variant. 

 

Can you believe I'm still waiting for a decision from SUK? Originally requested via dealer in January and escalated to SUK on 5th February. SUK keep promising to call back after speaking with the dealer then don't meet their promise, then call to apologise, another promised date then missed that again. I have texts, voice mails but no decision. Just how difficult can it be to speak with the dealer and why is it even necessary? My Wifes Kia is 6 months older than my Roomster and is STILL covered by manufacturers warranty.  To add to the reliability issues the coil warning light now comes on when it's first started from cold and engine goes into limp mode. It resets and seems fine when warmed up but I suspect an exhasut gas sensor (one was replace just 13 months ago) wonder what he warranty is on genuine dealer fitted spares? 

[littleade]

It is a poor life span isnt it. Still from the sounds of it it isnt too bad a repair job, just solder some new wires in and some shrink wrap.

I had the same thing happen on a Renault estate we had back in the 90's and did just as you suggest. I pieced out all the wiring so there was new wire for the whole length of the flexy hose as it was only going to be a matter of time before the others went too. I didn't have any problems with the tailgate after that.

[dmz]

£250 all in for new loom from dealer, not too bad given the amount of work.

Apparently very few fail, but that's a bit costly for me atm...

After cutting mine open the it looks a bit nasty, it's broken just after their binding fluff, one totally gone, one on its way. So I'm thinking design flaw/unlucky bit of wiring.

5 minutes with some splicing crimps and all is well again, but it's not gonna last forever. Just need to glue the boot back together again.

If dealer/indy repair isn't an option then this is a cheap fix if you can face cutting open the rubber boot.

Any news from SUK?

[oilfiredup]

£250 all in for new loom from dealer, not too bad given the amount of work.

Apparently very few fail, but that's a bit costly for me atm...

After cutting mine open the it looks a bit nasty, it's broken just after their binding fluff, one totally gone, one on its way. So I'm thinking design flaw/unlucky bit of wiring.

5 minutes with some splicing crimps and all is well again, but it's not gonna last forever. Just need to glue the boot back together again.

If dealer/indy repair isn't an option then this is a cheap fix if you can face cutting open the rubber boot.

Any news from SUK?

 

Didn't have to cut the rubber boot for my temporary fix as I removed the panel in the tailgate and nearside inner rear wing and threaded the new wire through with the crimps either end. 

 

SUK are still investigating. (It's only been since January when I first approached the dealer) The best they can come up with at the moment is approx £300 inc VAT and they are willing to fund 30% from the dealer and 10% from SUK. Having pointed out I can buy a repair kit for approx £45 that includes all the wires and another rubber shroud they've gone off to look at again. My route is clear. If they don't fix it then I will either pay an auto electrician to do it or fix it myself. The bill will then be sent to SUK with a 'not fit for purpose' letter and we will fight it out in the small claims court if necessary. It's a shame really as I'm considering another Roomster but not so much if this is their idea of customer service.

[bryanb]

Just doing my pre MOT checks and found a number plate lamp out. Traced it to the rubber tailgate boot, not a surprise really. Managed to cobble it together with choc block connector to get through MOT on Wednesday. While I had the boot pulled back I taped the big brown wire, insulation had parted but conductors are OK. Plus a couple of the thin ones on the way out.

All this is only a temporary job of course. I'm handy with soldering iron, multimeter etc, But access doesn't seem good. Anyone done it themselves? Where is best to cut and splice? Any tips on removing trim? Presumably the big black corrugated one is washer water?Thanks for any help. BB

Edited 16 May, 2015 by bryanb

[dmz]

Hi Bryan, same issue I had, the issue is the car side of the rubber boot is all gummed up with binding tape so its a pain to get access.

To resplice the whole lot means taking the headliner out which is a big job apparently, so I settled for splitting the boot virtually end to end, butt-crimping the broken wire both ends to a longer piece in the middle & feeding the longer wire into the space boot side so its got a bit more give in it.

Skoda repair manuals recommend crimping rather than soldering in loom repair cos of the movement & vibration that can crack solder joints. (correct me if this is wrong, it's only from what I've read around the net lol)

The repair kit I found seems to no longer be available which is annoying, since as you say this is a temp measure.

Alternative would be buy the whole rear loom from a dealer (approx £120 when I asked) and cut the bit out you need & splice, since the join is about halfway down the side of the car, it will mean re feeding the boot wiring but it's less of a bodge.

[bryanb]

Thanks for that, not sure which way to go at the moment, I'll have a closer look after MOT. I found I could pull the boot back enough to get one section of choc block in, but That only dealt with the broken wire. There are a few more with insulation problems to deal with. I could operate the tailgate lock by squeezing the boot - not good!

Edited 17 May, 2015 by bryanb

[faradaycage]

Hi Bryan, same issue I had, the issue is the car side of the rubber boot is all gummed up with binding tape so its a pain to get access.

To resplice the whole lot means taking the headliner out which is a big job apparently, so I settled for splitting the boot virtually end to end, butt-crimping the broken wire both ends to a longer piece in the middle & feeding the longer wire into the space boot side so its got a bit more give in it.

Skoda repair manuals recommend crimping rather than soldering in loom repair cos of the movement & vibration that can crack solder joints. (correct me if this is wrong, it's only from what I've read around the net lol)

The repair kit I found seems to no longer be available which is annoying, since as you say this is a temp measure.

Alternative would be buy the whole rear loom from a dealer (approx £120 when I asked) and cut the bit out you need & splice, since the join is about halfway down the side of the car, it will mean re feeding the boot wiring but it's less of a bodge.

Its ludicrous that the repair kit is no longer available,unless VAG re-design and eliminate a known problem,they have no right to delete the repair kit.Its time they pulled their finger out and had a serious look at updating quite a few of their badly designed components.Expensive,labour intensive,main stealer solutions are not what the average Skoda customer is happy with.

Edited 17 May, 2015 by faradaycage

[dmz]

It was a 3rd party kit from SenCom, approx £35 +ship from Germany, apparently very few fail according to dealer when I asked.

[oilfiredup]

An observation I made to SUK and the dealer was why the wiring to the mirrors and windows in the drivers door lasted longer than the tailgate given the open/shut ratio was hugely different? 

[oilfiredup]

Hi Bryan, same issue I had, the issue is the car side of the rubber boot is all gummed up with binding tape so its a pain to get access.

To resplice the whole lot means taking the headliner out which is a big job apparently, so I settled for splitting the boot virtually end to end, butt-crimping the broken wire both ends to a longer piece in the middle & feeding the longer wire into the space boot side so its got a bit more give in it.

Skoda repair manuals recommend crimping rather than soldering in loom repair cos of the movement & vibration that can crack solder joints. (correct me if this is wrong, it's only from what I've read around the net lol)

The repair kit I found seems to no longer be available which is annoying, since as you say this is a temp measure.

Alternative would be buy the whole rear loom from a dealer (approx £120 when I asked) and cut the bit out you need & splice, since the join is about halfway down the side of the car, it will mean re feeding the boot wiring but it's less of a bodge.

I didn't have to remove the headliner.. the n/s rear quarter panel trim pulls off and there is a connector inside where the rear tailgate loom plugs in. I simply cut the offending wire tailgate side of the connector crimp a new length then remove the press stud panel on the tailgate and remove the faulty wire and rethread the new one crimping at a suitable point in the tailgate. No need to cut open the rubber boot and joins crimped both ends but not contained inside the boot.

[dmz]

Nice one ☺ must be different panel layout to the fabia then, as mine went straight into headliner and no visible wires with trim panel off.

The breaking of boot vs door might possibly be due to size / angle of bend? Tailgate bend might be sharper than door (it is on the fabia, albeit not much)

Edited 22 May, 2015 by dmz

[bryanb]

I didn't have to remove the headliner.. the n/s rear quarter panel trim pulls off and there is a connector inside where the rear tailgate loom plugs in. I simply cut the offending wire tailgate side of the connector crimp a new length then remove the press stud panel on the tailgate and remove the faulty wire and rethread the new one crimping at a suitable point in the tailgate. No need to cut open the rubber boot and joins crimped both ends but not contained inside the boot.

Thanks for that, hope I can do something similar. It passed MOT with the temp repair so not quite as urgent now. But I know I can't put it off too long, perhaps after the Bank holiday.

Presumably the rear quarter trim is the white directly behind the rear N/S window. No visible means to remove, is it glued in place?

[bryanb]

Had a go at it today, I pulled the tailgate end of the boot off from the plastic insert that holds it to the tailgate. I could then retract the rubber far enough to get a good look at the problem.

I removed the temp chocolate block repair (That got it through MOT)

The number plate lamp was the only cable broken.

The large Brown insulation had failed exposing the wires. 2 others were starting to fail.

I decided to try a DIY within the rubber boot. 

On all the failed insulation ones, I used a hot glue gun to cover the break, but didn't over do it. I then wrapped each one with a couple of turns of self amalgamating rubber tape.

The broken one I butt joined with the smallest butt splice I could find (with it's insulation removed) and wrapped with the same tape. 

I then wrapped the whole repair area with the tape

Wrapping the individual wires with tape is not for the faint hearted, I had to wedge them apart using small screwdrivers and pull the tape thro with tweezers/snipe nose pliers.

I removed the tailgate top trim (Just pop out the black studs)  this enabled me to get a hand inside and push the plastic insert while stretching the boot back on with the snipe pliers. While in there I found that the number plate wires were very tight and putting tension on the main loom. I released 2 of the clips to give more length, which allowed a lot more freedom.

 

Everything electrical worked, it just remains to be seen for how long.

 

I assumed the cause to be the wires being forced to bend by the rubber boot while under tension caused by the tightness of the number plate wires.

[DiveTramp]

Thanks guys, using this forum showed me what I suspected after trying a new tailgate lock...yes, it was the same yellow and red wire that had snapped along with the insulation cracking on a number of other wires. 

I've now got a 501B lock for sale, £20. Any takers? ;-)