Sump Plug

[Doofy]

Tiz the time to change the oil again. Is it really necessary to replace the sump plug with a new one every oil change ?   I know they are only a couple of quid but i cant help thinking Skoda says replace so more dosh for them ????

[Phildo]

Just the washer as far as I know but I wouldn't even say that was really desperate. They cost pence though so may as well

[Phil-E]

It's the washer that you need to replace.

 

They are pence so you might as well.

 

Phil

[therat]

 

 

Horton's are currently selling the oil filter with sump plug and washer for £8.53 delivered:

 

http://www.theskodashop.co.uk/product/Octavia_

[wiilydog]

It prevents damage to the sump as a new sump is more costly than a new sump plug each time. They are no more than £3 each from ECPs so its not really that expensive.

[Anddenton]

Washer comes press fitted to the bolt, I've just looked at one I have in the garage and I can't get the washer off the bolt.

 

Also just checked my TPS invoice and for £1.87 might as well change it.

[snig71]

I used to replace washer on my passat 1.9 TDI plug with new one from motor factors , although after 18 oil changes the sump thread gave up.

I'd change it for price everybody is saying because if it leaks it will cost you more than its worth @ 1.87

Edited 2 March, 2015 by snig71

[brad1.8T]

Washer comes press fitted to the bolt, I've just looked at one I have in the garage and I can't get the washer off the bolt.

 

Also just checked my TPS invoice and for £1.87 might as well change it.

Cut it off with side cutters.

 

Can somebody explain the mechanics of why re-using the sump plug (with a new washer each time) would cause the sump thread to strip?  Assuming the user is tightening the sump plug to somewhere near the correct torque.

 

I just don't get why a new sump plug stops the sump thread from stripping.

[Guest]

I always reuse my sump plugs.

I give them and the sump a clean and apply a smear of instant gasket/silicone to the mating surface of the plug-not all over the thread.

Torque as usual, never had a leak yet, common sense.

[jeallen01]

Last summer, whilst having my car remapped at Perfect Touch in Hoddesdon, a guy from the next-door sales room brought in a Golf VR 32, with oil dripping out from the undertray after the oil had been changed - the guy at PT and I looked at each other and said "they didn't change the sump-plug". -> undertray down, oil leak WAS from the plug -> plug replaced by a new one for a couple of quid from ECP (and probably another £30+ to replace the oil that had to be drained out to do it, plus the cost of the time to do it!) -> no leaks and problem gone!

 

Moral? ALWAYS change the sump-plug as I do, and they don't then leak (10yrs experience, and many DIY oil changes, with Golf and Skoda VAG engines)!

Edited 15 March, 2015 by jeallen01

[KBPhoto]

£1.70 delivered on eBay.

[brad1.8T]

Last summer, whilst having my car remapped at Perfect Touch in Hoddesdon, a guy from the next-door sales room brought in a Golf VR 32, with oil dripping out from the undertray after the oil had been changed - the guy at PT and I looked at each other and said "they didn't change the sump-plug". -> undertray down, oil leak WAS from the plug -> plug replaced by a new one for a couple of quid from ECP (and probably another £30+ to replace the oil that had to be drained out to do it, plus the cost of the time to do it!) -> no leaks and problem gone!

 

Moral? ALWAYS change the sump-plug as I do, and they don't then leak (10yrs experience, and many DIY oil changes, with Golf and Skoda VAG engines)!

That's great but had the sump plug failed or had the 1-time use aluminium crush washer failed?  BMWs use 1-time use crush washers (have done for 25+ years) and the bolt / plug doesn't give issues as long as you change the washer.

[jeallen01]

Ra

 

That's great but had the sump plug failed or had the 1-time use aluminium crush washer failed?  BMWs use 1-time use crush washers (have done for 25+ years) and the bolt / plug doesn't give issues as long as you change the washer.

Read what Anddenton said above about not being able to change the washer on the plug (I've tried as well) - if the BMW plug design is different, then fine, change the washer, but the VAG plug is what it is  and you should change it.

 

Your choice, your sump!

[brad1.8T]

Ra

 

Read what Anddenton said above about not being able to change the washer on the plug (I've tried as well) - if the BMW plug design is different, then fine, change the washer, but the VAG plug is what it is  and you should change it.

 

Your choice, your sump!

I change them all the time.  As i said before, you snip them off with sidecutters. I fit a fibre washer (because I have truckloads of 14mm fibre washers in the parts bin).  Copper "crush" washers (that don't really crush) are about 20p each in packs of 20.  Speedflow sell aluminium "crush" washers (they aren't but they work) for 40p / 10 pack.  Here are proper 14mm crush washers (like a hollow donut) local to you guys GBP4.25 delivered for 10

 

As i've asked & nobody can answer,

"what part of the sump plug thread wears out that makes the sump plug a one time use item if tightened to the correct torque?"

[jeallen01]

I change them all the time.  As i said before, you snip them off with sidecutters. I fit a fibre washer (because I have truckloads of 14mm fibre washers in the parts bin).  Copper "crush" washers (that don't really crush) are about 20p each in packs of 20.  Speedflow sell aluminium "crush" washers (they aren't but they work) for 40p / 10 pack.  Here are proper 14mm crush washers (like a hollow donut) local to you guys GBP4.25 delivered for 10

 

As i've asked & nobody can answer,

"what part of the sump plug thread wears out that makes the sump plug a one time use item if tightened to the correct torque?"

Thanks for that info - I think the issue with some of the earlier posts, including my own, didn't envisage the realistic possibility that the washers could be changed, and you have given some options.

 

However, I do still wonder if the new ones that you are suggesting are actually both internally large enough to fit over the plug threads but yet still small enough to provide adequate sealing areas between the plug head and the sump face because the plug heads are not all that large.?

 

There is also the - almost certainly theoretical, given the oil film that is inevitably around the plug hole - issue that putting copper and many aluminium-based alloys together can lead to electrolytic corrosion around the interface - have you ever seen any signs of that happening?

[brad1.8T]

Thanks for that info - I think the issue with some of the earlier posts, including my own, didn't envisage the realistic possibility that the washers could be changed, and you have given some options.

 

However, I do still wonder if the new ones that you are suggesting are actually both internally large enough to fit over the plug threads but yet still small enough to provide adequate sealing areas between the plug head and the sump face because the plug heads are not all that large.?

 

There is also the - almost certainly theoretical, given the oil film that is inevitably around the plug hole - issue that putting copper and many aluminium-based alloys together can lead to electrolytic corrosion around the interface - have you ever seen any signs of that happening?

No, I haven't noticed any dissimilar metals, anode/cathode, electrolytic issues.

 

Keep in mind that some VW sumps are ferrous (steel) and others (the earlier models) are cast alloy (aluminium?).  The captive washer on the OEM bolt is usually aluminium alloy isn't it?  Even the bolt material (or the protective surface coating) appears to change depending on who is supplying VW.

 

The thread is 14mm OD.  The non-threaded section is 13.5mm OD

 

A 14mm ID fibre or crush washer (esp the hollow donuts) work fine with these:

 

 

But I'm not so sure about these ones with the allen head (but I think it would still seal properly)

 

One of the reasons I'm a bit passionate about this is that if you look in a dealership workshop there is usually a huge drum of sump plugs.  Hopefully they are destined for the scrap metal dealers & not land fill but either way, it seems an incredible waste of resources when a simple washer could do the job just as efficiently.

[jeallen01]

Thanks again,

 

I already have a few new plugs ready to fit, but I'll look at the replacement of the washers next time I run low!

[Cryonut]

Who not use a sump tap?, link below,

http://www.sumpplug.com/

I have been using them for years, makes an oil change a doddle especially with the nippled version so you can attach a plastic tube so oil goes straight in to a container

I have cut a 3 sided flap in the under tray so I don't even need to remove it.

[jeallen01]

Who not use a sump tap?, link below,

http://www.sumpplug.com/

I have been using them for years, makes an oil change a doddle especially with the nippled version so you can attach a plastic tube so oil goes straight in to a container

I have cut a 3 sided flap in the under tray so I don't even need to remove it.

Interesting, although the price would buy a lot of normal sump plugs

[brad1.8T]

Who not use a sump tap?, link below,

http://www.sumpplug.com/

I have been using them for years, makes an oil change a doddle especially with the nippled version so you can attach a plastic tube so oil goes straight in to a container

I have cut a 3 sided flap in the under tray so I don't even need to remove it.

 

I think Fumoto drain valves are a really good idea providing there is minimal chance of them being snapped off (ie: they don't hang lower than the sump)

[zzonyx]

Excuse my dropping in, was looking for good practical advice as to what can be a smart solution for a modern-day drain plug (the one on my Octavia 2 TDI seems the worst of the Chinese production, and the washer part is a monstrosity which is fine for engine assembly lines and VAG accountants, much less for DIY owners) and I found this Japanese valve which seems convincing.

Let me share my two bits: a French auto parts store chain called Norauto (widespread in Italy where I'm based, wouldn't know about UK, but there would be valid competitors, I expect) sells blister packages with properly sized, interchangeable copper and aluminum flat washers. Although they are on the expensive side (like most blister-packaged fasteners), they work fine and will take in stride at least two three oil changes.

German cars of the seventies had already flush-headed plugs with Allen wrench holes on one side and magnets on the other, and a fine thread so one could tighten and undo them with a short L-form Allen. The VAG solution is at the opposite side of fine engineering.